User talk:Omega Tyrant

If someone leaves a comment asking me something, please do not answer them for me unless I'm clearly offline

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I have email notifications turned on for whenever someone edits my talkpage, so even if I'm not around, I will be notified and will come around to check it out. You can also find me on Discord, where I go by the same name and have an avi of R.O.B. holding a Cacodemon plushie. If it's urgent and I'm not on here nor on the Discord, you can try messaging me on my Twitter, my Youtube, and my reddit account. You can also private message me on Discord, on those latter three accounts, and on email, if you want to speak to me privately for whatever reason.

I play Ultimate with anyone that challenges me, regardless of their skill level, as long as your internet connection is decent and you don't whine when you lose. If you want to play me, contact me here or on one of the other suggested contact methods.

Two things

(1)Many of my edits are usually erased, why does this keep happening? (2)Do you have the 3ds version of Smash 4 or the Wii u version? I think I might want to challenge you sometime, but I only have the 3ds version.Rimigafob (talk) 13:45, 10 May 2017 (EDT)

If you edits are getting reverted, you should read the edit summary of the edits reverting yours to see why your edit got reverted. And I have both versions, but as said on my userpage, I really dislike 3DS controls for Smash, so I won't play people on the 3DS version. Omega Tyrant 01:35, 11 May 2017 (EDT)

Flame Choke

Hey, a while back I made the page for Flame Choke in Brawl, but I'm not certain that I got the followups right. My test was time-consuming, but also fairly rudimentary, so I am not sure if all of it is accurate. I'm under the impression that you are familiar with Ganon in Brawl. Would you mind checking it out when you get the chance? John HUAH! 17:19, 21 May 2017 (EDT)

I don't quite remember all of the followups off Brawl Flame Choke off the top of my head, but I do noticed a lot of these are wrong. For example, a lot of characters get up too fast for d-tilt to hit, like Falco, Sheik, Lucario, and Ganon himself, while the skinny ones can't be hit with jab either, then Olimar is the only character in the game who gets up slow enough for d-smash to hit (which is still true in Smash 4).

There should be a list somewhere on Smashboards listing the guaranteed Flame Choke followups. Omega Tyrant 16:38, 25 June 2017 (EDT)

Brawl matchups

First off, congrats on your upcoming marriage! You've certainly done well, haven't you?

Second off, I need your help involving this forum. As someone who I definitely know was heavily invested in Brawl's metagame to the very end, probably moreso than anyone else on the Wiki, is the matchup chart for Brawl still relatively accurate, given the relative stagnancy of the metagame since its publication, or is it pretty out-of-date?

That's all.

--- Monsieur Crow, Author Extraordinaire, 00:32, 25 June 2017 (EDT)

Thanks, it is a surprise seeing you here, I thought you disappeared from the wiki a while ago. Omega Tyrant 16:38, 25 June 2017 (EDT)

Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated.

It seems we mostly missed each other back in Summer to Fall of 2016, when I last got back into editing after my departure in early 2015. I never truly disappear from SmashWiki, I just take leaves of absence, whether it's from schoolwork, boredom with Smash, or similar matters. It's a shame you're not as active as you once were, I miss your arse-kicking as an admin, but hey, real life comes first. Thanks for everything you've done.

--- Monsieur Crow, Author Extraordinaire, 21:48, 25 June 2017 (EDT)

Legitimacy of set wins

Hi! I was referred to you in the wake of some confusion as to how we are to classify Charliedaking's set against ZeRo at MSM 104, which Charlie won 2-0. To this point, it's been in practice that we add a short sentence detailing the win on ZeRo in the main blurb of any player with a win on ZeRo (Joe Smash is the Xth player to take a set off of ZeRo, doing so at WhereverCon 20XX, etc). We'd normally chalk this down as the 26th player with that win, except this is the first time the win has happened in which ZeRo was ONLY playing his secondaries. The person I was discussing it with listed you as an admin knowledgeable on the competitive scene enough to determine the process for this, specifically:

• Do we or do we not count this win as "a win on ZeRo" in the same way as all the others?
• If we do not, what specifically do we count as "a win on ZeRo," other than entirely subjective reasons or a case-by-case basis?
• Should the more recent/less notable wins on ZeRo even have a place in their blurb outside of ZeRo's name being a part of their list of notable wins? (In response to this specifically, I made a subpage that could potentially be used in place of these blurbs, perhaps as some sort of "See also" to ZeRo's page or the pages of any of them.)

The discussion in question took place here, if you'd like to read through it. Sorry to bother you, but this overall seems like an issue that could use some resolution before we let it keep sliding and we have 50 or 100 pages with sentences about how the player beat ZeRo. Thank you for your time :)

Pespeon (talk) 05:35, 11 July 2017 (EDT)

Originally, I wasn't going to comment on here, but when you created the userpage, I was reminded of this failed proposal. OT left his thoughts about it on there, too.

TL;DR: Singling out ZeRo is probably not the best course of action. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 05:46, 11 July 2017 (EDT)

I echo what I said before on the topic Jamal linked that wins on Zero shouldn't be singled out as something especially special, as there are too many people who have beaten him to have treated it as such, and if we're going to track individual wins and losses in depth, we should be tracking entire records between players so it's not just trivia. As for if we should refer to the win at all on CDK's page as if it was a standard win, no as Zero was explicitly going secondaries to practise them in what was ultimately just a weekly, and no one with common sense would consider such a win with the usual weight. Not to mention that rating systems like the PGR don't count weeklies in their system as it is. Omega Tyrant 21:53, 11 July 2017 (EDT)

For Glory matchmaking

Sakurai did mention it, in the April 2014 Direct. But I mean, I guess it's irrelevant now. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 06:58, 26 September 2017 (EDT)

Yea, I was just about to mention that. It's specifically here. Aidan, the Rurouni 11:50, 26 September 2017 (EDT)

SSBU character pages

We added notice templates to all SSBU character pages explaining not to add data values as they are subject to change. And as per your proposal, we removed specefic data claims (like specific amounts of damage % and frames); however, we did not know if that also meant all mentions of general buffs or nerfs should be removed (like just generally saying Mario's fireballs do more damage, as a made up example).

Also, as per SmashWiki is not speculative, shouldn't all the SSBU character pages be semi-protected? "Major articles about unreleased content (such as character articles) will be immediately semi-protected until release to prevent speculation." And one more thing, shouldn't SSBU's alternate costumes page be semi-protected too since all the other ones are? Thank you. VoqéoT 05:02, 6 July 2018 (EDT)

Vandal

Derek has been violating 1RV multiple times, to the point where I'm doing it myself. He's also been making edits without a summary, causing me and Aidan to revert his edits. I'm literally done dealing with his nonsense. SugarCookie 420 11:57, 13 February 2019 (EST)

Infobox for sponsor articles.

Hello, I talked about this draft to Disaster Flare. I noticed sponsor articles does not have an infobox, so I decided to draft one: Template:Infobox Team. I was wondering if you would like to check my draft, and I'm happy if you decide to edit to improve the template if necessary. Derekblue1 (talk) 07:10, April 22, 2020 (EDT)

Tyrant is only semi active so he probably won't respond. If you want my opinion though it looks fine. If you want opinions from other admins try asking Aidanzapunk or Serpent King because they're the most active after Flare. OmegαToαd64 • the Best Kαrter 07:51, April 22, 2020 (EDT)

Whoops, my bad 😬 I was meant to reply to you. I do not why I thought your names are similar. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Derekblue1 (talk) 09:59, April 22, 2020 (EDT)

Look.

I'm very sorry for making disruptive edits here, and for saying a very snarky and snipey edit summary towards you.

...

Will you forgive me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SafariKid2 (talk • contribs) 18:13, March 4, 2021 (EST)

Just don't that shit and listen from now on when an admin tells you to knock something off, and it'll be fine. Omega Tyrant 18:37, March 4, 2021 (EST)

Just because when someone apologizes, doesn’t mean you have to go and swear at them a**hole! 174.242.69.30 01:09, July 4, 2021 (EDT)

Do you know about any info for the 2nd tier list discussion?

Since you're both an admin here and an active competitive player, do you know if and when the 2nd tier list discussion would start? I have an idea for how the tier lists could be averaged: each tier placement is worth however many points the ranking is, then the add up the points from each tier list, with the final aggregated list being in reverse order of how many points each character has. As for getting the tier numbers such as S, A, etc, with 86 slots on the character select screen, plus 5 for using just Pyra/Mythra or one Pokemon Trainer pokemon, there are 91 spots on the tier list, enough to have exactly 13 characters per tier if there are 7 tiers. I asked Toomai last month with the same suggestions, but he hasn't replied to it, so I'm wondering if you know anything about when the actual discussion would start, if it would be closed to non-vote suggestions like the last one, or my suggestion is reasonable. 72.219.72.215 20:45, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

I'm not involved with whatever Toomai is planning, so I'm just as much in the dark about it as everyone else is. For what you suggested, I will say though that having the same amount of characters in every tier isn't how tiers are supposed to work; the purpose of tiers are to represent where the relative gaps in viability are, rather than as a means to just arbitrarily organize each character. There is no real limit to the amount of characters that could appropriately go into the same tier, you could really have everyone in one tier if they were all around the same viability, and to arbitrary limit how many characters go into each tier is just misrepresenting how viable each character is (same reason the "top 5/top 10/top whatever" tiers that are popular in personal tier lists are really stupid and is a trend that should die). Omega Tyrant 21:10, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

Clone charts

I was wondering if you were planning on updating your clone charts for Ultimate (and possibly Smash 4). RickTommy 21:51, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

Probably not, while I did things a bit differently than how Toomai handled his "cloneosity" page and so it wouldn't be entirely redundant (namely considering how the moves function and the characters' movement/physics), it would ultimately probably come to the same conclusions on how to categorize each clone even if the percentages differ, and I'm not really interested in arguing over minute details, especially when my method is more open to interpretation than Toomai's and so would attract more argumentation. Wiki arguments, especially of the pointless variety, played a large part in burning me out long ago and leading to the subsequent inactivity, so whenever I've been around since the post-Smash 4 era I tended to avoid arguments when I can. Omega Tyrant 22:09, March 18, 2021 (EDT)

Whoops.

Nope, I didn't have a backup nor a draft. I wasn't aware I'd need to do that. The best I have are a very limited number of snippets from the various pages I pranked.

HOWEVER, as long as that imgur album exists, I could, in theory, replicate it as long as I have the page histories to reference, but it would be extremely tedious.

TotallyNotAutomated (talk) 23:35, April 1, 2021 (EDT)

It's not necessary, so it's not something you need to do, it just would be something nice to have to look back on. It's up to you if you want to recreate a backup in your user space. Omega Tyrant 23:57, April 1, 2021 (EDT)

I could, and I want to, but I'd have to work on it over the span of a few weeks instead of crunching it out in under a day in order not to burn myself out. Not to mention I'd need help from the admins because the prank included editing templates. Yeah.

Oh, and the Donkey Kong page wasn't the only one I pranked. Ignoring a bunch of smaller edits to keep things consistent around the wiki, the other big articles hit were the Donkey Kong universe article and the list of Donkey Kong music in SSBU. Mostly it was just me adding music though. Funny thing, every music I claimed was a new remix actually had a link to a remix, and I credited the creators of the remixes in the "Composition & Arrangements" section.

Anyway, I'll have to set aside some time to do it. Though looking at my Rock Howard page, don't be surprised if it takes a long time or just doesn't finish. TotallyNotAutomated (talk) 00:05, April 2, 2021 (EDT)

Do you remember when Zelda was revealed for Melee?

Since Zelda was the only starter character who wasn't revealed at E3 2001, I'm curious about when she was actually revealed. I put in her page regular and melee pages that she was unofficially revealed when the box art was since I couldn't find any other melee marketing videos, but I don't know for certain since I wasn't born when melee came out. Since you were born 10 years before melee's release, was there a Nintendo magazine that revealed Zelda, or is the exact date and/or method of her reveal a complete mystery? 72.219.72.215 19:50, June 2, 2021 (EDT)

Am I allowed to make a fake Smash moveset about you?

Am I allowed to make a fake Smash moveset about you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SmashBros.PikachuUltimate (talk • contribs) 19:41, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

You have already been warned about probation, and currently over 80% of your edits have been to your user and talk page, while the few attempts at constructive edits have not been very good. I strongly suggest you not focus on more userspace content at this time, or you'll find yourself on a fast track to probation. Omega Tyrant 19:54, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

Brawl zss shield pressure

I just saw you reversed my edit and asked ask how I was shield pressuring with Plasma Whip. In Brawl, Plasma Whip is -10 on shield if you sweetspot it which along with the good shield pushback makes it good for spacing and pressuring. She also has other shield pressuring options with down smash (which is -4) and her back aerial. The reason I changed those few things was because it said her defensive game is poor "due to lacking safe options on shield". From an objective point of view, I don't believe that part is true since she has a good amount of moves that are safe on shield in a game where the amount of moves that are safe on shield is very minimal. This isn't me trying to get the edit into the page, I just wanted to explain my thought process for making that edit. SacredFire37 (talk) 14:11, September 18, 2021 (EDT)

It's Brawl, you're not "shield pressuring" anyone unless you're Meta Knight. Moves that can be safe on shield != shield pressure. Omega Tyrant 00:21, September 20, 2021 (EDT)

Personally I disagree, but I'll leave it the way it is since my stance is not objective. SacredFire37 (talk) 16:14, September 29, 2021 (EDT)

Brawl shields are very durable, have the lowest commitment of any Smash game, and every viable character has very good OoS options or at worst adequate (probably the worst of such characters, Snake, can still brutally punish nearly anything that's worse than -10 on shield with f-tilt and worse than -11 with u-tilt, while also having jab to punish close stuff that's worse than -8), shield pressure doesn't exist in the game without Mach Tornado and its ridiculous damage + longevity + safety. Omega Tyrant 20:06, September 29, 2021 (EDT)

True, but what about when taking spacing and shield pushback into account? Plasma Whip's long range and shield pushback make it difficult to punish if if it used correctly as a spacing tool (Salem would down smash and Plasma Whip all the time on shield and the opponent would barely ever be able to punish it). I definitely agree that Meta Knight has the best shield pressure with Mach Tornado, spaced f tilt and fair, etc. I just don't think he's the only one who CAN shield pressure despite the strong shields and low shieldstun. But again, this is just my take on it and even if shield pressure doesn't exist in Brawl, I consider the part that says zss lacks safe options on shield to be inaccurate (I might be biased since I main zss, but I have quite a bit of experience with her and this is what I've noticed). A bit of a sidetrack but did the shields in Brawl have slow regeneration and/or fast depletion or am I thinking of another game? SacredFire (talk). 10:44, September 30, 2021 (EDT)

Again, having moves that can be safe on shield does not equal shield pressure, you are never forcing people to stay in shield for long nor actually threatening shields in Brawl when shield damage is pitiful and characters have plenty good options OoS, which is why non-Mach Tornado shield pokes and shield breaks are so much less common than they are in Ult or even Smash 4. Taking a look at your age and userpage, I'm highly skeptical that you ever actually played Brawl competitively and so don't think you're really speaking here with any real worthwhile experience in the game. Omega Tyrant 03:44, October 1, 2021 (EDT)

Look, I'm not here to argue, I already said that I wasn't going to put my edit there. I just wanted to explain my thought process as to why I made that edit. As for my experience in the game, you're correct that I don't have a ton of experience in the game, mostly just online and locals near me, but I definitely have some experience playing the game. Can we just agree to disagree and move on? SacredFire (talk). 15:20, October 1, 2021 (EDT)

"Look, I'm not here to argue, I already said that I wasn't going to put my edit there."

But then you come here in the first place and are still replying...

"As for my experience in the game, you're correct that I don't have a ton of experience in the game"

Ok, so you admit you're out of your depth here. Omega Tyrant 17:06, October 1, 2021 (EDT)

I'm replying to clear up any misunderstanding that may have arisen. But yes, I did get ahead of myself. SacredFire (talk). 17:11, October 1, 2021 (EDT)

Sora leak/rumor dispute

There is currently a dispute going on about whether the Sora leak/rumor could be a coincidence because of a lack of info, which would be a valid complaint if it weren't for the circumstances regarding Sora being the last character and the leaker's occupation making this the only thing they could leak (I went over these in both pages talk pages). I was told that any admin would tell me that coincidences shouldn't go on the leaks page, but since you said there shouldn't be a dispute if it was 100% right, I'm asking you, as an admin who has had some say in this situation in the past, if this should simply be brushed off as a coincidence, taken as fact, or put on both pages like with Vergeben and Gemastu. 68.4.176.97 16:44, October 17, 2021 (EDT)

May you unprotect Mishima Dojo please?

For some reason it's indefinitely protected for only extended confirmed users, despite the reason being high traffic due to Kazuya's recent release at the time. I don't plan on editing it right now, but the permanent protection seems to be either arbitrary or a mistake. 157.242.208.122 02:15, November 13, 2021 (EST)

I agree the page shouldn't still be protected and really anything more than a month was excessive, the protection has been removed. Omega Tyrant 02:28, November 13, 2021 (EST)

The ban of 74.75.9.45

This IP is not only a serial vandal, but is also responsible for a total of 6 sockpuppet accounts (those blocked on 26/03/22), 2 of which themselves have a significant number of vandal edits on them, and the rest presumably would have been used for the same purpose had they not almost instantly been blocked by Porple. 1 week for all of this really doesn't seem like enough. Alex the Weeb 21:34, March 28, 2022 (EDT)

I would also like to bring up what I mentioned on the noticeboard, that being that Abigblueworld (and in turn 74.75.9.45) is a serial vandal across multiple wikis. They've been permablocked on not just Wikipedia but all of MediaWiki (with the IP being blocked for shorter), Miraheze [1] [2], and blocked or deactivated on various Fandom wikis for behavior similar to what we experienced. I agree that 1 week is too short regardless of if we look at on-wiki actions or their repeat history off-wiki. --CanvasK (talk) 22:24, March 28, 2022 (EDT)

I don't have anything else to add, but I must point out that I also protest the short length of this block, as a user with such a history is almost guaranteed to return to the wiki to vandalise. I know we shouldn't permablock IPs but we stand to gain nothing (and may even suffer detriment) by being so lenient for such severe transgressions. Black Vulpine the 🦊Furry🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 00:10, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

Someone just pinged the admins that there was an IP vandal without any added context and they were treated as any random IP vandal with no immediately apparent history on their IP. I don't need three people chiding "the block length is too short!" like I wouldn't have blocked longer if I was aware of the IP's history, your comment BV especially added nothing here. Just link the shit they're connected to that an admin may not be aware of, especially off-wiki shit no one here will reasonably be expected to keep track of, it's hard enough as is to keep tabs of which IPs are connected to other troublesome IPs and accounts on just this wiki. Omega Tyrant 00:46, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

It should be noted that the Admin noticeboard has had 4 different people providing all this info and begging for the IP to be blocked since Friday. I suppose people assumed that that'd be enough to get the attention of an administrator. Sincerely, Samuel the Banjo-Kazooie Boss. 09:21, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

I did not see the admin noticeboard and I rarely check it as I'm rarely browsing the wiki at this time, like I said before in the Discord you guys should just ping the admins there when something urgent comes up, that guarantees a fast response when an admin will nearly always be around there. Also here is the ping message about this IP, it was just a ping and a link to the IP with no mention of anything else about them, you can't expect someone to magically know about crucial context when it's not provided. Omega Tyrant 12:53, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

As the one who pinged, I should clear it up. I had no idea that the user was a recurring problem. I just saw Recent Changes being filled with a vandal and pinged because no one was online to take care of it. CookiesCreme 12:59, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

I don't think admins should rely on pings alone. They're usually less descriptive and, like in this case, may leave out important information. Discord messages, by the very nature of Discord itself, tend to be short and lacking in detail. Furthermore, the admin noticeboard collects all of these reports together, making it easier for admins to see all the reported details about a vandal in one place, while on Discord these reports will be sporadic, and may need to be tracked down in order to paint a full picture of what a particular vandal is doing.

If admins aren't checking the admin noticeboard, something should probably be done to encourage them to do so, especially since not all wiki users are even on the Discord, such as myself and Canvas. Alex the Weeb 13:14, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

You can very much supply farther info in Discord messages, and people have done so plenty of times before, you are not forced to make Discord messages "short and lacking in detail". Additionally by its nature, Discord is always going to be much more immediate in response; people generally keep it open when they have online access and the ping will immediately notify them that something is up, while you won't see any new post in admin noticeboard until you actually check it or happen to notice an edit there by checking recent changes. Discord obsoletes the admin noticeboard for notifying about urgent matters, it's going to always lead to faster response time even if all the admins were frequently refreshing the recent changes, and it's not unreasonable for admins to not be spending their time keeping an eye on the admin noticeboard for vandals when anything important enough typically gets brought up to them in Discord (especially if they're just too busy to spend their time browsing the wiki, and when the wiki is ultimately all volunteer work).

"especially since not all wiki users are even on the Discord, such as myself and Canvas."

This is irrelevant, most of the active users are active on Discord to notify admins, including BV and Sam among the people here complaining about this, far more than enough to notify admins when something is up, and I know you use Discord to message the admins to get around your ban on the SmashWiki server, so you can't tell me you don't use Discord. Omega Tyrant 14:39, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

Optimistically, Discord messages could in theory be used in such a way, but my point is that they generally aren't. Social media platforms can never truly make the wiki's built in features obsolete, because everyone who uses the wiki has access to these features, while it is unreasonable to expect everyone who is capable of spotting vandalism on the wiki to use external social media platforms instead. And as I mentioned, the noticeboard collates all the reports made about a vandal together, which Discord does not, making it more useful for determining what the punishment for a vandal should be. The Discord server can be used in complement with the noticeboard, but should not be treated as a replacement for it, and admins should be willing to check the noticeboard (in my opinion it should notify all admins in the same way talk page notifications work, but that's not likely to happen, so the page should at least be on every admin's watchlist).

I'm going to ignore your implication that I am somehow circumventing bans because there are 2 admins who are actually willing to talk to me in Discord DMs. Alex the Weeb 15:09, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

(edit conflict)This might be a little off-topic but is a genuine question, wouldn't a page as important as the admin noticeboard be on every admin's watchlist by default or have a notice like talk page posts do? It wasn't bad at the beginning, but it was still enough to report though it was seemingly ignored. If they got even a short ban at the start, then it would've become clear that they are sockpuppeting and they ban would escalate from there. Instead it took 3 days for the IP to be blocked at all and here we are. --CanvasK (talk) 15:15, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

As far as I know, having a notice (like talk pages) for a not-user-talk-page page is impossible. It could be that there is an extension out there for it, but as of right now, it's not like this is a switch that can just be flipped on. Serpent  King 15:32, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

"Discord messages could in theory be used in such a way, but my point is that they generally aren't"

They can be and they are, there is no "they generally aren't".

"Social media platforms can never truly make the wiki's built in features obsolete"

Technology advances, old tech becomes obsolete, it's not the 2000s anymore where the only means of communication off the wiki was email and cumbersome IRC that only a dozen or less wiki users actually used. Even then, say all six of the current admins here check the noticeboard every two hours with no sleep or time away doing anything else, an already clearly unreasonable amount of time to expect admins to devote to the noticeboard; that's at least 12 hours every day that a vandal report will not be noticed and the vandal will be able to run amok, whereas if you just ping the admins in Discord as soon as you notice a vandal, an admin can see that vandal in minutes as long as at least one admin is around. That is obsolesce for the purpose of reporting vandals.

"while it is unreasonable to expect everyone who is capable of spotting vandalism on the wiki to use external social media platforms instead"

Most people here already use it, and it is not unreasonable to just ping the admins for something when you need an immediate response, when it already has been explained how it is going to be always much faster than hoping someone refreshes the noticeboard. And those that don't should really get a Discord account even if they don't want to socialize, when communication about any wiki matters is always going to be much faster through it. Most wiki matters are already discussed there that don't require more thorough discussion.

"And as I mentioned, the noticeboard collates all the reports made about a vandal together, which Discord does not"

Already went through how Discord does not inherently prevent this, but you also know if you just report a vandal in Discord as soon as you see them and so they can be blocked immediately, they won't be able to build up any rapport.

"making it more useful for determining what the punishment for a vandal should be"

Another thing is I do not see why you and others are treating the block length of an IP vandal as such a big deal. Worst case scenario, they immediately vandalize upon their block wearing off... and then they're just reverted and blocked again for longer, with nothing worse for wear. In over the decade I've had adminship here, I never seen anyone before raise a complaint that an IP's block length was too short.

"in my opinion it should notify all admins in the same way talk page notifications work, but that's not likely to happen"

Even if this was done, that requires an admin to open up the wiki, so that still doesn't get the immediate response that Discord allows.

"so the page should at least be on every admin's watchlist"

I already do, and the other admins probably do too, it doesn't matter, just pinging the admins is still going to notify much faster than them just happening to check watched pages before a vandal vandalises more.

"I'm going to ignore your implication that I am somehow circumventing bans because there are 2 admins who are actually willing to talk to me in Discord DMs."

There is no implication, it is simply pointing out that you can't claim you're unable to use Discord because of the ban, when you're still capable of messaging the admins. Omega Tyrant 15:51, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

Indent reset I won't argue that Discord is definitely the more convenient and foolproof way to quickly alert an admin to a rampant vandal ruining everyone's day, but that doesn't change the fact that the Wiki does have a reasonably convenient built-in Noticeboard that it promotes as, verbatim, "a page to quickly alert the administrators to issues that need their attention." For reporting clear vandals, SW:VANDAL does mention a sysop's talk page, and I'll go ahead and update it to include Discord, but if the Noticeboard is simply superseded in its role, we should either reverse that supersession somehow, or formally acknowledge that fact in Wiki policy - because as far as I know (correct me if I'm super blind), up to this point the Wiki has not formally and intuitively promoted social media as a way to report urgent need for admin action. Sincerely, Samuel the Banjo-Kazooie Boss. 17:00, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

So it seems I may have misinterpreted something Omega Tyrant said. When he said "I know you use Discord to message the admins to get around your ban on the SmashWiki server", I read that as him saying me DMing admins on Discord is circumventing my ban. It appears that's not actually what that meant, so I retract my statement from before. Alex the Weeb 17:39, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

It's just common sense, if something needs an immediate response and you have access to something that lets you directly notify someone whose help you need, you should go and utilize it instead of just waiting around for one to log onto the wiki and check a specific page. Notifying via Discord can be mentioned in those pages, but people should not have needed a policy page to spell out and "promote" to them that Discord will get them faster responses, and indeed they haven't; most of the time I am effectively notified by someone pinging the admins on Discord about vandals or another urgent matter, while for whatever reason no one pinged about this specific IP until Cookies did, who was not aware either of their prior history (looking through old messages on Discord I seen NPM post about the IP, but without any context and without any ping, so it got missed).

Also:

""a page to quickly alert the administrators to issues that need their attention.""

This was written years ago, before the SmashWiki Discord server existed, and even then "quickly alert" was never a good word to use here, as there is no inherent "quickness" to waiting until someone checks the page; even back in the IRC days people would often directly notify admins of vandals through it because an instant messenger is always inherently faster.

"we should either reverse that supersession somehow"

There's nothing that will "reverse" its obsolesce, nor should that be desired when you can't get any faster response time than what an instant messenger offers. We have more and better tools at our disposal than before to effectively maintain the wiki, and they should not be neglected in favor of sticking to just what the MediaWiki software can offer. There's nothing wrong with posting on the noticeboard as a means of keeping record, but realistically any urgent report should not be without direct notification on Discord, you just can't beat its response time with pure wiki patrolling without having a NEET admin with no life that's content to refresh recent changes 24/7. Omega Tyrant 17:59, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

Hold up a sec here...Is the problem seriously "Sometimes people use Discord to report vandals instead of the admin board"? Because if so...I mean yah okay it does. The problem being reported gets solved...so what's the big deal here? Serpent  King 18:13, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

I don't intend to egg this conversation on any further; I just mean to say that I don't see any point to discouraging usage of the Noticeboard to alert an Administrator if you aren't on Discord. Plus, in this particular instance, I don't see any reasonable defense for the Noticeboard alerts going completely unnoticed for three days straight (although I do, in fact, agree that it was silly that it took that long for the situation to reach Discord). Sincerely, Samuel the Banjo-Kazooie Boss. 18:22, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

The problem isn't that people report vandals on Discord, the problem is that admins apparently aren't checking the noticeboard. Alex the Weeb 18:27, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

Look I can't speak for the other admins but if it takes that long to get a response, it can be safely assumed that we are all reasonably busy, and also assumed that the noticeboard has become a flawed system. On the flip side, I work 13-18 hours a day for 5 days a week, and I do have a personal life beyond that, believe it or not. My phone is always on me and discord pings my phone. I can afford to take the time to block a vandal if I get pinged at work, but I can't afford to check the RC every 20 minutes. Serpent  King 18:28, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

That'll be me typing without thinking again. I apologise for the wasted time. Sincerely, Samuel the Banjo-Kazooie Boss. 18:32, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

(edit conflict) That's of course understandable. Wiki editing is a hobby, not a job, so obviously we can't expect admins to always be around However sometimes reports go unresolved for days or even weeks. Given that there's pretty much always some point during the day where at least one admin comes onto the wiki to check on things, that still means admins seemingly aren't checking the noticeboard, even when they do have the time to log onto the wiki. Alex the Weeb 18:34, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

Can confirm the noticeboard is flawed with how the inappropriate names there are basically never checked. In theory, I don't think there is a problem whether you report on the noticeboard or Discord. It is up to the admins to check them and depends on if they are busy. NPM Morr!? 21:32, March 29, 2022 (EDT)

The point is that Discord now exists, all the admins are on there alongside most users, and that relying solely on the noticeboard is a blatantly outdated system that will never get remotely as quick of responses no matter how much it's checked. If something is urgent, just ping the damn admins on Discord, it is not the 2000s anymore, we do not need to just rely on cumbersome MediaWiki tech to maintain the wiki. If someone has the time to make a post on the noticeboard, they're more than capable of typing "@Administrator Hey there's this vandal and they did XYZ <insert link>" in the Discord server (or directly to an admin via DM) and getting a more immediate response.

"Given that there's pretty much always some point during the day where at least one admin comes onto the wiki to check on things"

Just because an admin shows up as online does not mean they're actually browsing the wiki, or if they do something else does not mean they're going to browse the wiki afterward, especially when urgent matters have been getting brought up on the Discord reliably before this one time (often times when you see me do something it's because someone pinged the admins about something on wiki that required them). I really do not get all this argumentation against just using something better, and it just seems you're being argumentative for the sake of it or a stick in the mud insisting on only using the noticeboard because "that's the way wikis have done it!". And ultimately, something as minor as an IP vandal being given a block that was inadvertently a bit lenient should not have resulted in this big talk page commotion that has 25 posts from 8 different users, it should have been simply left at one post saying "hey this block length of this IP is a bit short, are you aware of XYZ context?" instead of three users jumping in to complain about the block length before I could even respond, while the mention of Discord as an obviously better tool for notification should not be met with such argumentation.

@Sam: "I don't intend to egg this conversation on any further; I just mean to say that I don't see any point to discouraging usage of the Noticeboard to alert an Administrator if you aren't on Discord."

What did I just say to you? "There's nothing wrong with posting on the noticeboard as a means of keeping record, but realistically any urgent report should not be without direct notification on Discord". That is not "discouraging", it is saying "get with the times and don't ignore the better, more modern tool we have at our disposal".

"I don't see any reasonable defense for the Noticeboard alerts going completely unnoticed for three days straight (although I do, in fact, agree that it was silly that it took that long for the situation to reach Discord)."

I do not see any "reasonable defense" in not taking a second to just ping the admins if something is really that urgent, you are in the SmashWiki Discord all the time and so could have done so yourself, instead of raising a fuss now after the fact about it. Omega Tyrant 22:10, March 29, 2022 (EDT)