Marth (SSB4): Difference between revisions
(Undid edit by 146.115.191.186: I think it is still a nerf, even when attack's knockback is compensated.) |
Comsolguy777 (talk | contribs) m (→Changes from Brawl: Grammah) |
||
Line 16: | Line 16: | ||
Likely due to his dominance in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', Marth was overwhelmingly [[nerf]]ed, and the minimal amount of [[buff]]s he received are all negligible, and are not enough to compensate. He has less [[reach]] relative to the rest of the cast, obsoleting one of his key advantages in the previous titles. Many of his staple moves, most notably his forward aerial and down tilt, have more end lag, weakening his ability to control space effectively. Due to his slower movement and the aforementioned nerfs to his reach and endlag, his neutral game, particularly his approaches, is significantly worse than in his previous appearances. Additionally, Marth's attacks are overall less rewarding on hit, as he lost many guaranteed setups into KO moves; this has drastically decreased his comboing and KOing potential. His grabs also launch enemies farther but were not given KOing ability at reasonable percentages to compensate, completely removing direct grab follow-ups, as well as hindering his ability to put opponents in unsafe positions. Additionally, unlike other characters who were nerfed for ''SSB4'', Marth does not appear to benefit as much from most of the game's universal changes. | Likely due to his dominance in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', Marth was overwhelmingly [[nerf]]ed, and the minimal amount of [[buff]]s he received are all negligible, and are not enough to compensate. He has less [[reach]] relative to the rest of the cast, obsoleting one of his key advantages in the previous titles. Many of his staple moves, most notably his forward aerial and down tilt, have more end lag, weakening his ability to control space effectively. Due to his slower movement and the aforementioned nerfs to his reach and endlag, his neutral game, particularly his approaches, is significantly worse than in his previous appearances. Additionally, Marth's attacks are overall less rewarding on hit, as he lost many guaranteed setups into KO moves; this has drastically decreased his comboing and KOing potential. His grabs also launch enemies farther but were not given KOing ability at reasonable percentages to compensate, completely removing direct grab follow-ups, as well as hindering his ability to put opponents in unsafe positions. Additionally, unlike other characters who were nerfed for ''SSB4'', Marth does not appear to benefit as much from most of the game's universal changes. | ||
Due to his nerfs, Marth players now have to rely much more on gimmicks (such as raw tippers, [[Shield Breaker]], and [[Counter]]) and the opponent's mistakes to maintain control of the match. Shield Breaker provides more distance when used in the air, giving him slightly more recovery mixups. However, these gimmicks do not serve to aid Marth at all in competitive play, and despite the efforts of a small amount of dedicated Marth players such as {{Sm|Mr. | Due to his nerfs, Marth players now have to rely much more on gimmicks (such as raw tippers, [[Shield Breaker]], and [[Counter]]) and the opponent's mistakes to maintain control of the match. Shield Breaker provides more distance when used in the air, giving him slightly more recovery mixups. However, these gimmicks do not serve to aid Marth at all in competitive play, and despite the efforts of a small amount of dedicated Marth players such as {{Sm|Mr. R}}, he currently has very poor representation in large ''SSB4'' tournaments. | ||
Marth has been slightly buffed so far from updates however, such as in 1.0.6 and more notably 1.0.8 (minus the small nerf to damage on Marth's jab). Marth now has gained improved combo options out of his jab and a faster up-tilt. However, none of the buffs so far have compensated for his worsened approach ability and neutral game. | Marth has been slightly buffed so far from updates however, such as in 1.0.6 and more notably 1.0.8 (minus the small nerf to damage on Marth's jab). Marth now has gained improved combo options out of his jab and a faster up-tilt. However, none of the buffs so far have compensated for his worsened approach ability and neutral game. |
Revision as of 19:13, July 2, 2015
Marth in Super Smash Bros. 4 | |
---|---|
Universe | Fire Emblem |
Other playable appearances | in Melee in Brawl |
Availability | Starter |
Final Smash | Critical Hit |
Marth (マルス, Marth) is a playable character in Super Smash Bros. 4. He was announced on the official website on November 7th, 2013; years before, four Fire Emblem games were released on November 3, November 4, and November 11.
Marth is voiced once again by Hikaru Midorikawa, albeit using clips from Melee and Brawl, despite having appeared outside Japan.
Changes from Brawl
Likely due to his dominance in Melee and Brawl, Marth was overwhelmingly nerfed, and the minimal amount of buffs he received are all negligible, and are not enough to compensate. He has less reach relative to the rest of the cast, obsoleting one of his key advantages in the previous titles. Many of his staple moves, most notably his forward aerial and down tilt, have more end lag, weakening his ability to control space effectively. Due to his slower movement and the aforementioned nerfs to his reach and endlag, his neutral game, particularly his approaches, is significantly worse than in his previous appearances. Additionally, Marth's attacks are overall less rewarding on hit, as he lost many guaranteed setups into KO moves; this has drastically decreased his comboing and KOing potential. His grabs also launch enemies farther but were not given KOing ability at reasonable percentages to compensate, completely removing direct grab follow-ups, as well as hindering his ability to put opponents in unsafe positions. Additionally, unlike other characters who were nerfed for SSB4, Marth does not appear to benefit as much from most of the game's universal changes.
Due to his nerfs, Marth players now have to rely much more on gimmicks (such as raw tippers, Shield Breaker, and Counter) and the opponent's mistakes to maintain control of the match. Shield Breaker provides more distance when used in the air, giving him slightly more recovery mixups. However, these gimmicks do not serve to aid Marth at all in competitive play, and despite the efforts of a small amount of dedicated Marth players such as Mr. R, he currently has very poor representation in large SSB4 tournaments.
Marth has been slightly buffed so far from updates however, such as in 1.0.6 and more notably 1.0.8 (minus the small nerf to damage on Marth's jab). Marth now has gained improved combo options out of his jab and a faster up-tilt. However, none of the buffs so far have compensated for his worsened approach ability and neutral game.
Aesthetics
- Visually, Marth's appearance has been updated. His design takes elements from his attire seen in Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem, Heroes of Light and Shadow[1] and Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon (as opposed to his design from Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem, which was used in Melee and Brawl).
- Marth's attack trails are much brighter at the tip; this makes the sweetspot of his attacks more visible than in previous games.
Attributes
- Marth is slightly heavier than in Brawl (87 → 90)
- The change in units of distance grants Marth more disjoint relative to his hurtboxes but since the change affects the entire cast, Marth ends up having less reach overall relative to the reach of other characters. Additionally, the sizes of his hitboxes have been reduced. Overall, Marth's moves are less safe than they were in previous games.
- Marth's air speed is slightly slower (1.034 → 1.02).
- Marth's running speed is slightly faster (1.7 → 1.785).
Ground attacks
- Up tilt (8/9/12 → 5/6/9%), down tilt base (8/9 → 7%), forward smash (14/19 → 13/18%), down smash (13/14 → 8/12%), and up smash sourspot (4/14 → 3/13%) all deal less damage than in Brawl. Knockback compensated on up tilt, up smash, and forward smash however.
- Jab now comes out one frame later (4/2 → 5/3) and has slightly more ending lag.
- Jab now sends upwards allowing for new follow-ups and mix-ups.
- Forward tilt has more knockback (40 base/80 growth → 55 base/85 growth) and has more vertical range.
- Forward tilt comes out one frame later (7 → 8).
- Down tilt has more ending lag. It only lasts 2 frames instead of 3, and has a significantly smaller hitbox. It also can no longer move Marth forward, removing its ability to pseudo crawl.
- Dash attack has a noticeably smaller hitbox.
- Forward smash has slightly more ending lag.
- Up smash comes out one frame later (12 → 13), lasts 5 frames instead of 6, and has slightly more ending lag.
- Up smash has a slightly larger hitbox radius overall.
- Back hit of sweet-spotted down smash has more growth (80 → 88). It also deals slightly more damage (16 → 17).
- Front hit of down smash is weaker despite its increased growth on both the sweet and sourspots (70/80 → 88). Both hits last 2 frames instead of 3.
Aerial attacks
- Nair (12/18 → 8/11%), fair (10/13 → 7/10%), bair (11/14 → 9/12%), uair (10/13 → 9/12%), and dair sourspots (12 → 11%) all deal from moderate to severely less damage than in Brawl without much compensation on their knockback.
- Neutral aerial has more landing lag (9 frames → 12 frames).
- Neutral aerial is 2.5 units larger.
- Forward aerial now hits 2 frames slower. It only lasts 3 frames instead of 4 and has doubled landing lag (9 frames → 18 frames). It also can no longer be interruptible at frame 34, meaning Marth can no longer do another aerial after a short hop forward air.
- Back aerial has slightly less landing lag (21 frames → 19 frames).
- Up aerial has more landing lag (9 frames → 16 frames).
- Down aerial has less landing lag (32 frames → 28 frames).
- Down aerial starts at frame 9 instead of 6. Its sweetspot only lasts 1 frame; it no longer meteor smashes unless the tipper hits in the middle of the swing arc, has less base knockback (40 → 20), and the hitboxes that used to meteor now send foes sideways with moderate knockback and deal 1% less damage (14 → 13%). All of this significantly worsens his ability to approach with his down air.
- Marth now instead swipes outward from the back instead of his front, essentially flipping its animation around from Melee and Brawl.
Throws/other attacks
- Marth's grab comes out 1 frame later (6 → 7) and has 1 frame more ending lag. It also has less grab range.
- All of his setup throws have significantly higher base knockback, which removes most of his follow-up options after a grab.
- Down throw sends foes at an upwards trajectory, which can give some new follow-up options at low percents, but it removes Marth's ability to tech-chase.
- Up throw has more base knockback (60 → 70).
Special moves
- Shield Breaker deals less shield damage (42 → 30), however with the removal of damage reduction on shields, it allows the move to break shields more easily. It also now gives Marth a horizontal boost when used in the air, regardless of whether it is charged or not[2], aiding Marth's recovery.
- Marth no longer steps an extra distance forward when using the move, and because of the general decrease of his range, the move's range is much shorter.
- Downward Dancing Blade deals slightly more damage.
- Dancing Blade has more ending lag, and the third hit downward no longer meteor smashes. It is also harder to connect each hit together compared to Brawl, due to the fact of each hit having more hitstun and less IASA frames.
- Dolphin Slash deals less damage (13% to 11%) making it weaker. A Reversed Dolphin Slash is also slightly harder to hit with and it also no longer has Intangibility on the first 5 frames.
- Counter has increased growth (40 → 60), being able to KO reliably off of strong countered attacks at very low percentages (having a damage multiplier of 1.2x instead of 1.1x like in Brawl).
- Marth now grunts instead of talking while using Counter.
Update History
- Jab hit 1 IASA: Frame 29 → Frame 26
- Forward tilt IASA: Frame 39 → Frame 35
- Dancing Blade hit 1 IASA: Frame 45 → Frame 42
- Dancing Blade combos more consistently
- Jab improved; both hits link more reliably as the transition is faster and jab 1 now produces vertical-based knockback, and the second hit deals increased knockback. The first hit also now has followup potential outside of transiting to the second hit.
- Both hits of jab deal 1% less damage.
- All hitboxes of up tilt now deal vertical knockback, with improved base knockback, making it a better KO move. It additionally has 3 less frames of ending lag.
- Neutral aerial has 3 less frames of landing lag.
- Dolphin Slash has slightly improved knockback scaling.
- Dolphin Slash and Crescent Slash deal slightly more hitlag.
Technical changelist
Change | Old value | New value |
---|---|---|
Jab 1 damage | 4%/6% | 3%/5% |
Jab 1 angle | Sakurai angle | 78°/65°/90° |
Jab 1 knockback growth | 50/70 | 30 |
Jab 1 base knockback | 20/30 | 55 |
Jab 1 hitlag | 1 | 0.7 |
Transition from Jab 1 to Jab 2 | frame 21 | frame 17 |
Jab 1 ending frame increased | 26 | 28 |
Jab 2 angle | Sakurai angle | 100 |
Jab 2 initial base knockback | 50 | 65 |
Jab 2 (late) base knockback | 40 | 52 |
Up tilt angle | Sakurai angle/100° | 100° |
Up tilt base knockback | 50/40 | 65/52 |
Up tilt endlag | 42 frames | 39 frames |
Neutral air landing lag | 15 frames | 12 frames |
Dolphin Slash knockback growth | 68 | 74 |
Dolphin Slash/Crescent Slash hitlag multiplier | 0.5 | 0.7 |
Moveset
For simplicity, if, for example, Marth's blade does 4% damage while the tip does 6%, and the attack has no other hitboxes, it is written as 4%/6%.
Name | Damage | Description | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Neutral attack | 3%/5% | Slashes Falchion twice in front of himself. | ||
4%/6% | ||||
Forward tilt | 9%/12% | A fast forward leaning Falchion swipe upward. | ||
Up tilt | 6% (blade), 5% (body), 9% (tip) | Swings Falchion in a large arc above his head, with a large hitbox that can hit enemies behind him. | ||
Down tilt | 7%/10% | A quick crouching Falchion poke. | ||
Dash attack | 10% (blade), 9% (body), 12% (tip) | A quick upward sweeping diagonal slash. | ||
Forward smash | 13%/18% | Rotates body counter-clockwise with a strong arc-like one-handed swing from his head to the ground. | ||
Up smash | Justice Sword | 3% (ground), 13% (blade), 18% (tip) | A quick, direct upward thrust. The weak grounded hit can knock nearby opponents into the main attack. | |
Down smash | 8%/12% (hit 1), 12%/17% (hit 2) | Sweeps Falchion on the ground toward the front outward then toward the back inward. | ||
Neutral aerial | 2%/3% (hit 1), 6%/8% (hit 2) | Two horizontal slashes around himself via in inward slash followed into a full 360 outward spin. | ||
Forward aerial | 7%/10% | Does a forward vertical slash (up to down). | ||
Back aerial | 9%/12% | Slashes Falchion from bottom to top behind him in an inward swipe. Has the interesting property of turning Marth around, changing facing direction. | ||
Up aerial | 9%/12% | A forward to back upward Falchion slash in a delayed somersault. | ||
Down aerial | 11% (blade), 13% (non-meteor tip), 14% (meteor tip) | A forward to back downward outward slash with Falchion. If the tipper hits in the middle of the swinging arc, it sends opponents downwards, meteor smashing powerfully. Other hitboxes when tipped results in moderate knockback. High ending and landing lag. | ||
Grab | — | Grabs the enemy with his left hand. | ||
Pummel | 2% | Knees the enemy. | ||
Forward throw | 4% | Grabs and pushes forward, tripping with his leg. Can be used to set-up a Crescent Slash from low to mid percentage. | ||
Back throw | 4% | Turns around and pulls the enemy over his outstretched leg, tripping them. | ||
Up throw | 4% | Powerful upward throw with one arm. Can KO at very high percentages. | ||
Down throw | 5% | Throws opponent to the ground with one arm, bouncing them upwards. Primary follow-up throw. | ||
Forward roll Back roll Spot dodge Air dodge |
— | — | ||
Techs | — | — | ||
Floor attack (front) Floor getups (front) |
7% | |||
Floor attack (back) Floor getups (back) |
7% | |||
Floor attack (trip) Floor getups (trip) |
5% | |||
Edge attack Edge getups |
7% | |||
Neutral special | Default | Shield Breaker | 8%/9% (uncharged), 22%/24% (fully charged) | Marth charges up Falchion at chest level before powerfully thrusting it forward. This attack deals high amounts of shield damage. |
Custom 1 | Storm Thrust | 4% (uncharged), 11% (fully charged) | The stab produces a blast of wind from the tip, with pushing strength dependent on the charge level. In exchange, the attack is weaker than normal. | |
Custom 2 | Dashing Assault | 6%/5%/3% (ground uncharged early/mid/late), 7%/6%/4% (air uncharged early/mid/late), 16%/13%/9% (ground fully charged early/mid/late), 17%/14%/10% (air fully charged early/mid/late) | Marth performs a lunging thrust with Falchion. Deals less damage, but propels Marth forwards. | |
Side special | Default | Dancing Blade | 3%/4% (parts 1-2), 4%/5% (part 3 up/side), 3%/4% (part 3 down), 6%/8% (part 4 up), 5%/7% (part 4 side), 2% (part 4 down hits 1-4), 4%/6% (part 4 hit 5) | A sequence of Falchion slashes with several variations based on control stick tilts; If it is tilted up on the final blow, Marth will perform an uppercut with good KO'ing potential. Tilted down: A flurry of stabs that wears down shields. Neutral or side: Produces a strong swing downwards. |
Custom 1 | Effortless Blade | 2%/3% (parts 1-3), 4%/5% (part 4) | Makes the hits easier to link, but can only use the side/neutral option. Since Marth swings with less vigor (hence the name), the attack is also weaker. | |
Custom 2 | Heavy Blade | 7%/9% (part 1), 9%/11% (part 2), 10%/12% (part 3), 13%/15% (part 4 up), 14%/16% (part 4 side), 2.2% (part 4 down hits 1-4), 11%/13% (part 4 down hit 5) | Marth slashes with more force, but the controller input time is stricter and the hits are harder to link. | |
Up special | Default | Dolphin Slash | 11% (clean), 7% (late blade), 6% (late body) | Marth performs a rapid jumping slash that can be reversed. Has a powerful sweetspot located in the first few frames. |
Custom 1 | Crescent Slash | 7% (clean), 12% (late blade), 6% (late body) | Marth uses a lower Dolphin Slash that gains more horizontal distance. It gives Marth an access to his only one true follow-up from forward throw and grab release combo against some characters. Using this attack against the ledge enlarges its hitbox. Ideal for interrupting recoveries, gimp, stage-spike, and edgeguarding. However, it has less vertical distance. | |
Custom 2 | Dolphin Jump | 0% | Jumps higher, deals no damage. | |
Down special | Default | Counter | 1.2x (min 8%) | Marth assumes a defensive stance and retaliates against incoming attacks. The power of the counterattack scales with the strength of the attack blocked. |
Custom 1 | Easy Counter | 0.7x (min 4%) | Marth holds his stance longer, and strikes with less power. Has decreased damage scaling, but has a wider trigger window. | |
Custom 2 | Iai Counter | 1.3x (min 6%) | Marth strikes the opponent while moving behind them at lightning speed. Inflicts more damage, knocks foes behind him, and is much quicker, but the trigger window is stricter. | |
Final Smash | Critical Hit | 60% | Marth lunges in one direction, attacking the first opponent. Immense knockback, enough to one-hit KO any character. |
Victory Fanfare
This victory theme is a small orchestral cover from the title theme of the first Fire Emblem game, which has since become the main theme of the series. It is shared with Ike, Robin, Lucina, and Roy.
In Competitive Play
Official Custom Moveset Project
Character | Custom sets available | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Marth | 3113 | 3123 | 1123 | 3133 | 1133 |
3121 | 1121 | 3111 | 1131 | 3131 |
Alternate costumes
Trophies
- Marth
- The first hero from the Fire Emblem series, Marth is the prince of Altea and descendant of the hero Anri. In Smash Bros., he's known as an exceptional swordfighter, swinging his blade with grace. Striking with the tip will maximize the damage dealt. Teach aggressive foes a lesson with his strong Counter move.
- Marth, the prince of Altea, is the hero of the first ever Fire Emblem game and its remake, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon. In this game, his graceful sword skills are what set him apart. Strike with the tip of his blade to deal extra damage, and use his Counter skill to defend yourself, no matter which directions you're being attacked from.
- : Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light (JP)
- : Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem (JP)
- Marth (Alt.)
- Marth's side special, Dancing Blade, is a four-stage attack. Aim and time your strikes carefully! As usual, the tip of his sword does the most damage. For his up smash, Justice Sword, he thrusts his blade into the air. You can use it to block attacks from above, and even to launch nearby enemies off the ground."
- : Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light (JP)
- : Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem (JP)
- Critical Hit (Marth)
- Marth raises his Exalted Falchion to the sky and then rushes forward to deal an incredibly powerful blow, almost certainly KO'ing anyone and everyone who gets hit! When it's used in the air, he'll fly forward a certain distance. On the ground, however, he'll only dash to the edge of the platform he's standing on.
- Marth raises his Exalted Falchion to the sky, then rushes forwards to deal an incredibly powerful blow, almost certainly KOing anyone and everyone who gets hit! When used in the air, he'll fly forwards a set distance, but on the ground, he'll only dash up to the edge of the platform he's standing on.
- MarthTrophy3DS1.png
Classic (3DS)
- MarthTrophy3DS2.png
Alt. (3DS)
Gallery
Battling with Link.
Using down smash on Wii Fit Trainer.
Using Dolphin Slash on Mega Man.
Posing with Peach.
Close-up image of Marth and Luigi's faces.
Marth and Samus near a Steel Diver.
In battle with Zelda.
Landing with Ike.
Trivia
- Despite now grunting instead of talking when doing his Counter, he still has his sound effects in his Sound Test.
- In Roy's trailer, Marth can be heard talking while using Counter, rather than grunting.
References
Fighters in Super Smash Bros. 4 | |
---|---|
Veterans | Bowser · Captain Falcon · Charizard · Diddy Kong · Donkey Kong · Dr. Mario · Falco · Fox · Ganondorf · Ike · Jigglypuff · King Dedede · Kirby · Link · Lucario · Lucas · Luigi · Mario · Marth · Meta Knight · Mewtwo · Mr. Game & Watch · Ness · Olimar · Peach · Pikachu · Pit · R.O.B. · Roy · Samus · Sheik · Sonic · Toon Link · Wario · Yoshi · Zelda · Zero Suit Samus |
Newcomers | Bayonetta · Bowser Jr. · Cloud · Corrin · Dark Pit · Duck Hunt · Greninja · Little Mac · Lucina · Mega Man · Mii Fighter (Mii Brawler · Mii Gunner · Mii Swordfighter) · Pac-Man · Palutena · Robin · Rosalina & Luma · Ryu · Shulk · Villager · Wii Fit Trainer |
Fire Emblem universe | |
---|---|
Fighters | Marth (SSBM · SSBB · SSB4 · SSBU) · Roy (SSBM · SSB4 · SSBU) · Ike (SSBB · SSB4 · SSBU) · Lucina (SSB4 · SSBU) · Robin (SSB4 · SSBU) · Corrin (SSB4 · SSBU) · Chrom (SSBU) · Byleth (SSBU) |
Assist Trophies | Lyn · Black Knight · Tiki |
Stages | Castle Siege · Arena Ferox · Coliseum · Garreg Mach Monastery |
Item | Killing Edge |
Other | Sothis |
Trophies, Stickers and Spirits | Trophies (SSBM · SSBB · SSB4) · Stickers · Spirits |
Music | Brawl · SSB4 · Ultimate |
Masterpieces | Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light · Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem |