Talk:Priority

Except the example is untrue. Try it sometime - the jab clanks with the forward smash (at least in Melee). In Melee, "priority" should properly refer to these ideas:

• controller slot priority, as outlined on Smasher:Mew2King's website. If player 1 and player 2 initiate a grab on the exact same frame, player 1's grab wins. There are a few other such examples.
• a vague understanding of which attacks tend to go through others as an effect of hitbox duration, range, speed, and invincibility frames. Priority in this sense is no specific stat but a general effect. All that actually matters with colliding attacks is whether the attacking hitbox hits the defending one.

Anybody who tells you high-priority attacks go through others due to their "power" or any specific "priority" stat is mistaken. I don't know if this element has changed in Brawl or was present in the original, but at least in regards to Melee we need to address this issue exactly. – MaskedMarth ^{(t c)} 06:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Can't counter moves, dodges and sheilds be said to have VERY high priority, even though they (mostly) do no damage? Ike's Best Buddy^{Great Aether!} 12:39, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Is it just me?

Or do most of G & W's attacks cancel others, no matter how weak or strong they are? For example, I was watching him negate a Falcon Punch with his forward tilt, and C. Falcon's forward smash with down tilt. Should this be noted, or is it just me? Blue Ninjakoopa^Talk 22:03, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

It's noted on the G&W article that he has very high priority, if that suffices. --Shadowcrest 22:07, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

"Priority only affects grounded characters"

I don't think this is true at all, I have seen some Down Aerials break through attacks and others not. - Gargomon251 (talk) 20:22, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

O . O

From what I read in this well written (IMO, Feature-worthy) article, priority is based on how one attack can out damage the other. Captain Falcon's FSmash in Brawl is not that low priority, if anything very high. As well as his other moves! Ness's UTilt has bad priority, not the supposedly high priority! The Priority concept seems to be confused at high levels of play. It seems a very large majority of the moveset articles and various special move pages will need (another...) MASSIVE rewriting and rethinking, as well as giving certain Brawl characters proper accreditation. I was thinking of starting with Captain Falcon (SSBB), but I can't do this alone. Say, this should be a project... anyone, help? --HavocReaper'48 21:10, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Talking about priority as if it's something other than damage (such as "does 9% damage and has high priority") is, according to this article, wrong. So priority should not be mentioned when talking about moves unless it's stating that there is a transcendent hitbox. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 22:11, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

So, ignore the whole priority thing completely and only mention it on trans. hitboxes? --HavocReaper'48 22:38, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

For Brawl, at least. I don't know whether the mechanics are the same for Melee and SSB64. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 22:49, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

The way priority works in Melee appears to be very similar to that of Brawl, Omega Tyrant is in the process of testing this. I will be testing priority in the original Smash Bros. Anyone else is welcome to do the same and discuss their findings. In the meantime, I guess it would make sense to omit misconceptions about priority in Brawl character articles, so people are welcome to do that too. Mako Shark (talk) 10:35, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Aerials

There's some shiz about aerials that needs to be rewritten for accuracy. Turns out they can collide, but not in the same way as ground attacks. For now, don't accept anything in the aerials section as true. Mako Shark (talk) 08:34, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Okay turns out:

• ZSS' n-air can collide with Falco's b-air (as in, produce a collision bubble) and both moves continue through with their animations, but become harmless. This is unusual; there's a small chance that ZSS' n-air may actually behave like a projectile.
• Kirby's b-air cannot collide with Falco's b-air, they go straight through each other and damage both parties. I'm under the impression that most aerials behave like this until proven otherwise.
• ZSS' u-smash can collide with Falco's d-air, but neither move gets cancelled, and the remaining hits of the u-smash get the better of Falco after the collision. Dunno what that's about, will investigate further.

Mako Shark (talk) 08:41, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Considering how ZSS's nair is immune to stale-move negation, it could just be a strangeness of that specific case. Of course, it depends on the characteristics of the lightwhip, which I'm not sure of. Toomai Glittershine eXemplary Logic 13:24, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Controller slot priority

Needs to be covered. I'm of the opinion that the details of controller slot priority are distinct and lengthy enough to warrant their own article, perhaps with a mention in this one, so I might create one soon. However, this article's name might need changing to "Attack priority". Mako Shark (talk) 09:56, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

We wouldn't need to change this article's name, just have a note at the top that leads to [Priority (disambiguation)]. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 13:24, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

so uh yeah projectiles

This article is mostly incredibly well-done, but... uh... is projectile priority gonna get covered anywhere? (e.g. Remote Missile cancels out like anything else projectile-ly speaking) Miles (talk) 22:14, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Projectiles still follow the 8% rule just like any other attack. As for Snake's remote missle, it does not follow normal priority. It behaves like an item such as the capsule, the remote missle has an damagable hitbox. As such, that is why it changes trajectories when hit by another hitbox and projectiles aren't canceled out by it, they simply hit it. Also remember, priority only takes place when the white collision bubble appears. Omega Tyrant 18:56, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well the reason I was asking was that it seemed from that type of explanation that projectiles follow the 8% rule... even in the air. Which I thought might be worth noting if it were accurate. Miles (talk) 21:40, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Clarification

Two things directed at Omega Tyrant's general... location. When you mentioned the sweetspot of Pikachu's f-smash, were you referring to the bit on the end, or the bit in his cheeks? The bit in his cheeks is the sweetspot, but the bit on the end has more range, obviously. If you already know this, or it's a widely known fact, I may just be making myself look like an idiot, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Might be worth clarifying on the page if it's not widely known.

Also, something's up with ZSS' up smash. I swear you can cancel at least one of its hits, clash bubble and everything, with a standard aerial, and it doesn't get cancelled itself. If you cancel one of its hitboxes halfway through the attack, it hits you afterwards if you were on your way down. I tried it with Falco's dair. Would you (or someone else) mind looking into this maybe? I'd do it, but I have flat batteries johns right now. Mako Shark (talk) 17:33, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well you discovered another attack that follows this exception. I just tested it and seen Marth's fair collide with a hitbox in Zamus's u-smash. I also noticed that this hitbox of Zamus's u-smash behaves like an aerial, the hit box is cancelled out but her u-smash is not. As for Pikachu, his f-smash has three hitboxes, the hitbox right next to his cheeks which is the sweetspot, the hitbox farther away near the tip, and a hitbox that occurs later in the attack's duration. The hitbox near his cheeks is the strongest hitbox and therefore it is considered the sweetspot. So yes, this is the hitbox with transcendent priority.

It is also nice to see you again. Omega Tyrant 17:51, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Falcon Punch vs. Egg Roll

There has been videoed proof that Egg Roll can cancel the Falcon Punch. You might want to change that example and maybe make a note about it.

~ Bronnco (talk) 07:17, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Read the article, if the hitboxes collide, the Falcon Punch will easily out-prioritise Egg Roll. NO hitbox that isn't transcendent doesn't follow the 8% rule. If you actually test this and actually get the Egg Roll hitbox to collide with the Falcon Punch hitbox, you'll see that the "video proof" is a bunch of bull shit. Omega Tyrant 08:37, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Not 8% in all games

Google translation of a page of the SSB64 website

It'll be a bit of a pain to rewrite this to cover all three games... Toomai Glittershine The Different 16:26, 12 February 2011 (EST)

No rewriting is necessary, just make a note that the priority range was 10% in the original Smash Bros. How does that require a painful rewriting? Omega Tyrant 18:30, 12 February 2011 (EST)

Because there are various spots that spell out 8% as the Smash Bros. priority range and I'm not sure how to re-write it to be all-inclusive. Toomai Glittershine The Metroid 19:05, 12 February 2011 (EST)

Just make a note of it being 10% in the original Smash Bros., you don't need to rewrite the article :/ 8% is the range in Melee and Brawl, which is 2 games to 1, with both games each being played much more often than the original. Omega Tyrant 08:07, 13 February 2011 (EST)

I'll also like to add that the information presented on the website may not be entirely accurate anyway. I recall the Dojo claiming that Lucario's range also increases when he sustains more damage (which is false, as Aura Sphere is his only attack where the hitbox size is affected by his damage modifier). As such, I would find someone actually testing this and reporting their results to be more credible than the information in the linked to website, and what's the point of a difficult, unnecessary rewrite to later find out the information presented in the website is false? Anyway, I think the note I made about it should be enough. Mentioning 10% with every 8% would make the article flow less smoothly anyway. Omega Tyrant 08:25, 13 February 2011 (EST)

Overuse and Misuse of the Term "Priority"

I am tired of seeing this word on every single page, always being used improperly. When this article was rewritten (it clearly didn't have any of this info before anyone bothered to get off their couch and do some testing about how priority actually works), why wasn't every other page concerning priority rewritten? Like say... ALL of the fighter pages? I'm tired having to take out every irrelevant mention of the word, rewriting entire sections because half of them were dedicated to how "high" or "low" priority the moves had (when the move was either high in damage, was multi-hitting, or had instantaneous start up (or any combination of the three), none of which except for damage, have anything to do with priority), and having to think of something else to put in place of it.

And the worst part of it is that no one else has stepped up to the plate and done this. I know at some point we'll all have to do it, but this is on a much larger scale and I clearly don't have the time to look for the darn word on every page it's being misused on. --Smashgold347238 (talk) 07:40, 27 December 2011 (EST)

The sentiment is shared by me. However, it takes time to fix all the misuses of the term priority in every article. I've been fixing misuses whenever I came across them, and when you see the misuses, fix them, instead of posting here complaining about them. Omega Tyrant 18:53, 27 December 2011 (EST)

Ike's priority

It seems that Ike has low priority on some of his attacks, especially his dair and fair. Very often (For Glory) it occurs that I use a dair against the foe, when I'm falling, but the foe uses his utilt or usmash at the same time and only the foe's attack hits, deals damage and knockback. Or I want to attack the foe who jumped offstage after me with an airial to prevent me from being meteor smashed, but only the foe's meteor smash hits. Mariofan13 (talk) 07:13, 15 March 2015 (EDT)

Most aerial attacks don't collide with attacks used on the ground or other aerial attacks. Therefore, the usual rules of priority don't apply in those cases. LimitCrown (talk) 07:35, 15 March 2015 (EDT)

The article says, if an airial collides with a ground or other airail attack, both players damage each other with their attacks. Also, it happened that a Yoshi cancelled my Fsmash (!) with a Jab... Mariofan13 (talk) 08:09, 15 March 2015 (EDT)

If your attack hit the opponent, then the opponent would be attacked. Also, certain attacks can make parts of the user intangible. For example, Charizard's wings during its up tilt attack are intangible. It's implausible that Ike's side smash would be cancelled by Yoshi's jab. LimitCrown (talk) 08:48, 15 March 2015 (EDT)

I think you're wrong, airial moves also have priority. Today I played against a C. Falcon who spammed his downB. If Falcons airial downB collides with Ikes uair, only Falcon is inflicted by damage and knockback. If Falcons airial downB collides with a Qickdraw, both players get damaged. If the Knee collides with a Quickdraw, oonly the Knee hits.

And yes, it seemed that yoshi's jab cancelled Ike's fsmash, but maybe the fsmash was a Phantom hit. Mariofan13 (talk) 12:41, 15 March 2015 (EDT)

Most of Ike's attacks have disjointed hitboxes because they use his sword, so Ike could hit Captain Falcon with his up air attack first without getting hit. As I said before, most air attacks don't collide with ground attacks or other air attacks. Also, are you sure that Yoshi's jab didn't only hit Ike, causing him to flinch? LimitCrown (talk) 13:26, 16 March 2015 (EDT)

Some air attacks maybe. But not all. As I said a airial Falcon kick clashes with a Quickdraw, a Knee cancels the Quickdraw out and an uair cancels Falcon Kick out. A DDD's utilt cancels out my dair, yoshi's fair spike cancels my nair out, my utilt clashes with bowsers dair...Mariofan13 (talk) 14:02, 16 March 2015 (EDT)

You don't seem to understand priority. If the aerial Falcon Kick and Quickdraw actually collided with each other, then the two attacks would be cancelled out because the difference between the damage dealt by those two attacks is 9% or less. However, because the Falcon Kick was used in the air, the two attacks don't collide with each other. Also, as I said before, some attacks can make some parts of the characters' bodies intangible. LimitCrown (talk) 15:07, 16 March 2015 (EDT)

After playing hundreds of games with different characters, I'm sure that something like airial priority exists. For example, Ganondorf seems to have high airial priority and cancels out airial moves of some other charakters like ZSS - and he has no disjointed hitbox because he doesn't use a weapon like a sword, hammer or gun. And Rosalumas uair has more priority than Ikes dair as I could see in a game on Battlefield. It occurs with different characters and different attacks, that an airial attack outpriorices another one. I don't agree with "airial priority doesn't exist" anymore, sorry Mariofan13 (talk) 10:56, 26 May 2015 (EDT)

How priority is determined in Smash 4?

How Priority is determined in Smash 4? The 8% rule doesn't fit to all grounded vs grounded situations as G&Ws side special 9 (32%) sometimes clanks with an opponent's tilt move and Ike's jab 1 clanked with several smashes, like Fox's or Yoshi's Upsmash. 188.118.248.107 18:48, 13 March 2016 (EDT)

It's very possible that the moves he's clanking with just don't have the range to actually hit him. They certainly collide, but that doesn't mean the characters have to be hitting each other. In fact, if the hitboxes don't overlap but the characters are within range, they will actually trade with each other and not clank at all. This is applicable to every game. Gold 05:02, 12 April 2016 (EDT)

Low Priority Existing in Other Games...

When I was testing Fox Illusion and Falco Phantasm in Melee, I found that they acted exactly the same way as they did in Smash 4. If a hitbox connects with Fox or Falco, they never trade and they always get hit. I'm thinking priority is more complicated than we thought and previous sentiments about Brawl Captain Falcon were right. Gold 04:18, 12 April 2016 (EDT)

Maybe it's the moves themselves. The hitboxes of Fox Illusion and Falco Phantasm are behind their user, which makes it so that they get hit first in every case. They have normal priority, but awkward timing. I do believe, however, that there are moves with low priority in Melee and Brawl. Drill Blaster Mark 2 (talk) 09:02, 12 April 2016 (EDT)

The hitboxes of Fox Illusion/Falco Phantasm are attached to the afterimages, and are therefore technically projectiles. This is the case in all games where the move appears. In addition, the hitbox data format has been pretty much completely taken apart for all four games, and no hint of a "priority modifier" has been found. Toomai Glittershine The Awesome 10:27, 12 April 2016 (EDT)

Having Said That...

Aren't object-based attacks like Bayonetta's smashes still exceptions to normal priority? I feel like they should still be listed, but I don't want anything I add to be undone again. Gold 15:34, 18 April 2016 (EDT)

...Do I take this silence as "I should add something pertaining to object attacks" or no? Gold 03:47, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

It looks to me like "objects that don't vanish instantly upon being hit" might indeed be some sort of exception, but I'm not totally sure yet. Something funny is indeed going on. Toomai Glittershine The Incomprehensible 09:36, 1 May 2016 (EDT)

Please do not remove a bunch of detailed information and replace it with basically saying "it's a balance mechanic", a claim which doesn't actually have any proof at the moment. The video you posted is mostly correct, but the critical flaw is that it assumes that all props are projectiles, which is not necessarily true. It's not like any of the detailed information is incorrect: it lays out the current theory, gives some examples, and acknowledges that it's not completely understood. Toomai Glittershine The Non-Toxic 21:22, 29 June 2016 (EDT)

No one is going to get that theory, and KH already clarified in that video that there is no separate priority reserved for projectiles or items (see Villager's bowling ball vs. Timber). He also said that whether or not these attacks are in fact props shouldn't matter (as Zero Suit Samus's n-air uses her whip, which is a prop, but does not have low priority). I think I laid out a perfectly good reason why said attacks are of low priority anyway. I'd hate it if Bayonetta was charging an up smash, directly below me, and I had no other way to avoid it without using something like Diddy Kong's Monkey Flip. God forbid you try to challenge something like that with another character's weak aerials if it didn't have this property. Gold 21:53, 29 June 2016 (EDT)

ZSS's nair is a non-relevant example, because in SSB4 it doesn't actually have any hitboxes on it (they're all attached to ZSS directly). And while yeah I guess it could be true that it's a balance decision, we have no proof of it, and even if it were we would need to outline what the technical deal is regardless. Maybe the technical deal is as simple as "supposed to always lose when clanking", but until we can find such we can only work with what we do know. Toomai Glittershine The Inconceivable 23:26, 29 June 2016 (EDT)

I mean, that's probably it. If someone throws out an attack to clank with Bayonetta's smash attacks, they are either completely safe when not in range to hit her, or they completely beat her attack and hit her. There's no need to overcomplicate things if one of the foremost authorities on Smash 4 knowledge made a video about priority (crude as it might be) specifically to stop spreading misinformation on it. Is low priority a balance mechanic? Perhaps not, but there would also be no other real explanation for why that property even exists in the first place. Gold 23:45, 29 June 2016 (EDT)

Robin's Thoron

I think this attack needs its own category of priority. At full charge, it acts as laser priority where it passes through everything and everything passes through it however it can also out-prioritise other projectiles and go right through them. This is distinctly different from Falcos laser, Mewtwos full charge shadow ball which can be stopped by things like bombs and mechakoopas.

I also believe this has the same properties as Robs laser but I really don't know enough about Rob to say anything about that.

101.173.51.242 19:38, 23 December 2016 (ACST)

It might have both trascendent priority and be unclankable. And next time, open a new section below, not above. You do it by selecting "new section" -- Happy Holidays from BeepYou :) (talk) 05:25, 23 December 2016 (EST)

As far as the data goes, Thoron is indirect and can clang. However, because projectiles can't rebound and it doesn't disappear on hit, cancelling its earlier hitboxes won't do anything to stop the later hitboxes from coming through. This is unlike Falco's lasers and Shadow Ball, which have a single hitbox and then die. Toomai Glittershine The Multifaceted 07:49, 23 December 2016 (EST)

Testing for Transcendent Priority

I am aware that moves with the afformentioned type of priority do not clash with other moves. So, lets say a move fails to destroy Mario's Fireball, and the character still takes damage despite the hitboxes connecting with each other. Would that mean the move has transcendent priority if it doesn't destroy the Fireball? Thecontributor22 (talk) 21:23, March 20, 2019 (EDT)

Proposal to change/add pictures in the Gallery section

In my opinion, it's been a long time coming since the pics in the gallery section started to become outdated, this in part due to there being two (three) new games that have come out since then. New types of priority for attacks have been introduced since then, and aspects of priority have also been altered so that they differ from previous games.

With Ultimate now out since approximately a year and a half, I saw it plausible that some of the pictures in the gallery could be replaced (with a few exceptions) while some others could be added to point out the properties of priority. I already got the pictures that could replace some of the older ones (it didn't take me long at all to get them), but I wanted consensus on whether or not the pictures should be replaced.

What do you people think? --Beep (talk) 22:48, April 16, 2020 (EDT)

Is brawl the only game where ZSS's down smash is transcendent?

I'm asking because only brawl is labeled as a game where it has transcendent priority but in her smash 4 page, it doesn't say the move lost transcendent priority in the "changes from brawl" section. SacredFire37 (talk) 00:03, March 28, 2021 (EDT)