User talk:Alex the weeb/Project C: the clone assessment project

Interesting analysis. Are you going to add Pyra and Mythra? --Rdrfc (talk) 14:28, March 20, 2021 (EDT)

I'm not sure. Since they share the same slot, I kinda think of them as one fighter, so it would be pretty weird to do them. But as I said I am planning on adding bonus content. Alex the Weeb 14:30, March 20, 2021 (EDT)

They have separate announcer calls and fighter numbers, meaning that they technically count as separate fighters, so I think analyzing them would be worth it. 72.219.72.215 22:11, March 20, 2021 (EDT)

Dr. Mario

Good job on this analysis. It isn't perfect; shield size shouldn't be taken into account since all shields except Yoshi's have the same model anyways, it's strange that shield stances are taken into account but not idle stances when they have the same purpose (either neither should be counted or both), and final smashes absolutely have a presence in terms of development despite its absence in competitive, so those should be taken in as a half of a move (to replace the void left by removing the shield size category), if not a full one. However, I honestly believe this better reflects what actually makes a clone than Toomai's (no offense to him), which is prone to having some very different moves getting counted as cloned, due to taking into account more than just the general concept and not ignoring other properties.

Additionally, since Dr. Mario's decreased speed and increased power are due to external modifiers instead of directly altering the stats, I think it would be a good idea to rate all of his speed attributes as 0.25 instead of zero due to the reduced effort. In the cases of moves that have different knockback and damage but the same angles, frame data, and amount of hits, those might count for .9 or .8 instead of .75. 72.219.72.215 22:11, March 20, 2021 (EDT)

As I mentioned in the introduction, I wanted this project to have a heavier focus on gameplay and playstyles. Shield size and stance are actually very important, as they can often quite literally be the difference between life and death. That being said though, remember that their overall weighting is fairly small, as they're lumped together, and they're in the minor stats section, giving them a score penalty (combined they're only worth up to 0.5 points).

When it comes to stats, it's not super important how the stat changes are applied, as in game the effect is the same. Dr. Mario has a considerably different playstyle to Mario, and his lower stats play a massive role in why that's the case. Also, I doubt using modifiers really reduces the effort put in by the developers compared to changing the raw stats, as they have to program in a transcendent stat modifier system that's only used for 1 character, and 1 character alone, as opposed to just changing the numbers in a universal param set, like they did with Ken for instance.

Subdividing key categories like that is risky, as it introduces yet another source of subjectivity, and runs the risk of underselling the importance of only 1 specific hitbox property being changed, if it's changed by a significant amount. The amount of damage or knockback a move does can have a pretty large effect on how it's used. Remember also that a score reduction of 0.25 isn't that big by itself. The idea is that if a large number of a character's moves have altered hitbox properties, then the effect will add up to noticeably change the character overall, and the 0.25 score reduction will likewise add up to a noticeable change in their final score.

Anyway, you're absolutely correct that this method is also flawed. If it were up to me, a couple of the scores would be different. However, it was very important that I applied the rules consistently, even if I didn't always 100% agree with the outcome, as otherwise I'd be fudging the numbers. Regardless, I still think that overall I got some good results from it, and I hope that you can still find it useful. Alex the Weeb 06:46, March 21, 2021 (EDT)