User:Alex the weeb/Project C: the clone assessment project
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Introduction[edit]
So, what is Project C? This is an idea which was stolen from inspired by Toomai's Cloneosity project. Cloneosity is an attempt at determining how similar various "clone" characters are to each other, using boring stuff like numbers and statistics. In essence, this project has the same goal, however it will be focused exclusively on Ultimate, and features a completely overhauled methodology.
So, what's the difference?[edit]
While Cloneosity takes a rather simplistic approach at gauging how similar fighters are, I intend to go much more in depth. Essentially, Cloneosity only considers whether the animations of the moves look similar, as this is an indication of whether or not a move was built from scratch or not, but I believe this to be flawed as an overall method. While it is useful to an extent, it inevitably leads to suspicious conclusions, such as Ganondorf and Captain Falcon being more similar than Lucas and Ness, despite Ganondorf having a completely different character archetype, playstyle, design and overall feel than Falcon, while Lucas shares all of these traits very closely with Ness. Perhaps there are some facets that are shared more closely between Ganondorf and Falcon, than between Lucas and Ness, but I think that categorizing Ganondorf as a semi-clone of Falcon, while Lucas gets away with being labled a pseudo-clone, is just one example of this method being flawed.
Simply put, only considering move animations, and not the moves' technical properties and functionality, nor the fighters' attributes (which play a major role in determining their character archetype), will only get you so far. It won't tell you how much a clone's playstyle, and general feel to the player, differ from their parents. In a game like Ultimate, where there is a large spectrum of degrees of clonehood, I believe a much deeper analysis of the fighters is required.
Effectively, I hope for this project to be more accurate, more precise, and more gameplay oriented than Cloneosity. Of course, like any method of assessing clones, it will also be flawed, but I hope it will be less flawed than its parent project. I present to you, Cloneosity's very own semi-clone: Project C!
The Rules[edit]
Moves[edit]
Every move will be assessed and placed in to one of the following categories, each with their own assigned point values, which are as follows:
- Identical moves (1 point) - Moves do not vary in any of the key categories. For all intents and purposes, the moves are functionally identical.
- Copied moves (0.75 points) - Moves are mostly identical, but vary in one of the key categories. The functionality of the moves are therefore different.
- Common moves (0.5 points) - Moves are similar to each other, and have a clear common descent, but vary in multiple key categories, and thus aren't cloned in the conventional sense.
- Inspired moves (0.25 points) - This is the trickiest one. The moves have significant differences from each other, but it is reasonable to conclude that some inspiration was taken for the move. Previous common descent is a good way of establishing this.
- Unique moves (0 points) - The moves are far too different from each other to be considered cloned to any degree.
Effectively, 0.25 points are scored for each key category that doesn't differ, and 0.25 points are scored for clear evidence of inspiration.
If you want a more human visualization, you can think of identical moves as being effectively flawlessly copied by the clone, copied moves being copied by the clone, not not perfectly, common moves being the clone putting their own spin on the move, and inspired moves being the clone taking inspiration from their parent's move, but ultimately doing their own thing with it.
Certain minor moves will not be assessed. These include things like pummels, floor attacks, edge attacks etc., as most of these moves are cloned across a large chunk of the cast anyway, so will just artificially inflate scores. Final smashes will also not be assessed, as these have no competitive relevance. Grabs will be lumped together, as typically they either all vary, or none of them do, and move counts will be standardized to 3 for jabs, and 1 for everything else, so as to prevent artificial inflation or deflation of scores. How this is done will become clear in the scoring section.
Stats[edit]
Important stats will also be considered when determining how similar fighters are. This is important, because a fighter's stats have a significant impact on their playstyle. Naturally, fighters with a large number of similar moves will still be forced to play differently if they have significant stat differences. Considered stats will be divided into 2 categories: major and minor. Additionally, if stats vary, but by less than 10%, the points scored will simply be halved, rather than negated entirely.
Major[edit]
Major stats are worth 1 point each
- Walk speed
- Run speed
- Air speed
- Air acceleration
- Fall speed
- Gravity
- Weight
- Jump height (combined)
Minor[edit]
Minor stats are worth 0.5 points each
- Initial dash speed and run accel*
- Shield size and shield stance*
- Traction
- Fastfall speed
*Only one of these must vary to avoid scoring a point.
Any stats which are not mentioned above (such as walk accel and air friction) are too minor to be worth assessing here.
The key categories[edit]
These are used to assess what category to place each move in.
- Hitbox properties - The values found in attack scripts within hitbox flags. These include things like hitbox size, damage, knockback, launch angle etc. In some cases, the severity of the differences may be assessed, for example if the two moves' launch angles vary by just a couple of degrees, this may not be enough to be considered a difference in this key category. In such cases, a justification will be provided.
- Frame data - The timing of the attack, including startup, active frames, ending lag and FAF, and in the case of aerials, landing lag and autocancel windows. As before, very minor differences may not qualify as a difference in this key category.
- Animation - The attack's animation. This will not include particle effect changes, as these have no practical effect. Mirrored stances, or virtually imperceptible animation changes may not qualify as a difference in this key category.
In cases where the differences are too minor to qualify in an individual key category, but there are differences in multiple key categories, these differences will be considered to have half their usual weighting, putting the move into a category other than identical. For example, if there are minor differences in 2 key categories, it will be treated as a major difference in 1 key category, and thus the move will be considered copied, rather than identical.
Extra credit[edit]
Extra credits (or perhaps more accurately, extra penalties) may be applied for differences which do not fit into the above sections, but are significant enough to warrant a reduction in the final score. Such extra credits may include body type differences, passive abilities, or anything else which has a significant effect on the feel and playstyle of the fighters. Binary passive abilities (those which are common to many fighters and either are or aren't present) such as crawling and wall jumping have halved weighting. Idle animations will not be considered, as these rarely come into play. Minor differences will also not qualify, such as Luigi being slightly taller than Mario, but otherwise having the same body type.
Scoring[edit]
Below is a set of tables showing the individual point values for every move or stat, a brief explanation when applicable, and the total score, for each clone. Minor stats are indicated with small text. Only fighters covered on the Clone article will be assessed, but I plan on producing some bonus content later on.
Fighter: Luigi
Parent: Mario
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Run speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air speed | 0 | |
| Air accel | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Fall speed | 0 | |
| Gravity | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Weight | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Jump height | 0 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0.25 | 10% rule, both |
| Shield size/stance | 0.25 | 10% rule, shield radius only |
| Traction | 0.25 | 10% rule |
| Fastfall speed | 0 | |
| Jab 1 | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Ending lag only differs by 1 frame, too minor. Copied |
| Jab 2 | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Common |
| Jab 3 | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. No resemblance. Unique |
| Forward tilt | 0.25 | Different in all 3 categories, but animation is very derivative with common descent. Inspired |
| Up tilt | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Lack of common descent, despite similar concept. Unique |
| Down tilt | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Dash attack | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward smash | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up smash | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties. Minor difference in animation and frame data (+1 active frame), weighting halved. Common |
| Down smash | 0.25 | Different in all 3 categories, but animation is very derivative with common descent. Inspired |
| Nair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Common |
| Fair | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Uair | 0.25 | Different in all 3 categories, but animation is very derivative with common descent. Inspired |
| Bair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Common |
| Dair | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Grabs | 0 | All differ in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward throw | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Back throw | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up throw | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down throw | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Neutral special | 0.25 | Different in all 3 categories, but same origin, and common descent. Inspired |
| Side special | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up special | 0.25 | Different in all 3 categories, but same origin, and common descent. Inspired |
| Down special | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Extra credit | -1 | -0.5 Luigi can crawl, -0.5 Luigi cannot wall jump. |
| Total | 6.25 |
Fighter: Dr. Mario
Parent: Mario
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0 | |
| Run speed | 0 | |
| Air speed | 0 | |
| Air accel | 0 | |
| Fall speed | 1 | |
| Gravity | 1 | |
| Weight | 1 | |
| Jump height | 0 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0 | Both differ |
| Shield size/stance | 0 | |
| Traction | 0.25 | 10% rule |
| Fastfall speed | 1 | |
| Jab 1 | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Jab 2 | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Jab 3 | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Forward tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Up tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Down tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Dash attack | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Forward smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Up smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Frame data differences minor (1 extra active frame). Copied |
| Down smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Nair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Common |
| Fair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Uair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Frame data differences minor (2 extra frames landing lag). Copied |
| Bair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Common |
| Dair | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Grabs | 1 | Identical (all) |
| Forward throw | 0.75 | Different throw properties. Copied |
| Back throw | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up throw | 0.75 | Different throw properties. Copied |
| Down throw | 0.75 | Different throw properties. Copied |
| Neutral special | 0.75 | Different projectile properties. Copied |
| Side special | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and animation (with common descent). Frame data differences minor (2 extra reflection frames). Common |
| Up special | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Down special | 0 | Different in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Extra credit | 0 | |
| Total | 19.5 |
Fighter: Young Link
Parent: Link
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Run speed | 0 | |
| Air speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air accel | 0 | |
| Fall speed | 0 | |
| Gravity | 1 | |
| Weight | 0 | |
| Jump height | 0 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0 | All differ, accel passes 10% rule |
| Shield size/stance | 0 | Both differ |
| Traction | 0.25 | 10% rule |
| Fastfall speed | 0.25 | 10% rule |
| Jab 1 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 2 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 3 | 0.25 | Different animation and hitbox properties. Frame data almost identical. Inspired |
| Forward tilt | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Up tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down tilt | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Dash attack | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward smash | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Up smash | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Down smash | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Nair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Fair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Uair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Bair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Dair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Grabs | 0 | All differ in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Back throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Up throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Neutral special | 0.5 | Different projectile properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Side special | 0.5 | Different projectile properties and frame data. Mirrored animation with clear common descent. Common |
| Up special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Extra credit | -2 | -1 Young Link has a very different body type. -0.5 Young Link has a rapid jab with a finisher. -0.5 Young Link has a Zair and can tether. |
| Total | 7.75 |
Fighter: Dark Samus
Parent: Samus
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 1 | |
| Run speed | 1 | |
| Air speed | 1 | |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 1 | |
| Gravity | 1 | |
| Weight | 1 | |
| Jump height | 1 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0.5 | |
| Shield size/stance | 0 | Both differ |
| Traction | 0.5 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.5 | |
| Jab 1 | 1 | Identical |
| Jab 2 | 1 | Identical |
| Jab 3 | 1 | Both absent. Identical |
| Forward tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Up tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Down tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Dash attack | 0.75 | Different animation. Copied |
| Forward smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Animation change minor. Copied |
| Up smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Animation change minor. Copied |
| Down smash | 1 | Animation change minor. Identical |
| Nair | 1 | Identical |
| Fair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Uair | 1 | Identical |
| Bair | 1 | Identical |
| Dair | 1 | Identical |
| Grabs | 1 | Identical |
| Forward throw | 1 | Identical |
| Back throw | 1 | Identical |
| Up throw | 1 | Identical |
| Down throw | 1 | Identical |
| Neutral special | 0.75 | Different animation which affects fire height. Copied |
| Side special | 0.75 | Different animation which affects fire height. Copied |
| Up special | 1 | Identical |
| Down special | 1 | Identical |
| Extra credit | -2 | -1 Very different ground movement and jump animations. -1 Very different rolls |
| Total | 29.75 |
Fighter: Falco
Parent: Fox
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0 | |
| Run speed | 0 | |
| Air speed | 0 | |
| Air accel | 0 | |
| Fall speed | 0 | |
| Gravity | 0 | |
| Weight | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Jump height | 0 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0.25 | 10% rule, both |
| Shield size/stance | 0 | Size |
| Traction | 0 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0 | |
| Jab 1 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 2 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Rapid jab/finisher | 0 | Both differ in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down tilt | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Dash attack | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Forward smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down smash | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Nair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Fair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Uair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Bair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Dair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Grabs | 0.25 | All differ in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Forward throw | 0.5 | Different animations and throw properties, with clear common descent. Common |
| Back throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Up throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Neutral special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Inspired |
| Side special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Inspired |
| Up special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Inspired |
| Extra credit | 0 | |
| Total | 4.5 |
Fighter: Pichu
Parent: Pikachu
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 1 | |
| Run speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 0 | |
| Gravity | 0 | |
| Weight | 0 | |
| Jump height | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0 | Run accel differs |
| Shield size/stance | 0.25 | Size differs, 10% rule |
| Traction | 0 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.25 | 10% rule |
| Jab 1 | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Frame data difference minor (1 frame less ending lag). Copied |
| Jab 2 | 1 | Both absent |
| Jab 3 | 1 | Both absent |
| Forward tilt | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Up tilt | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation differences minor. Common |
| Down tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Animation differences minor. Copied |
| Dash attack | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation differences minor. Common |
| Forward smash | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Up smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down smash | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Nair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Fair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties. Mirrored animation with minor differences. Common |
| Uair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and animation, with clear common descent. Frame data differences minor (1 extra active frame) |
| Bair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Dair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and animation, with clear common descent. Frame data differences minor (autocancels earlier) |
| Grabs | 0.25 | Differ in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Forward throw | 0.5 | Different hitbox/throw properties and animation, with clear common descent. Frame data differences minor (throw release 3 frames earlier). Common |
| Back throw | 0.5 | Different throw properties and animation, with clear common descent. Common |
| Up throw | 0.5 | Different hitbox/throw properties. Animation and frame data changes minor, weighting halved. Common |
| Down throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Neutral special | 0.5 | Different projectile properties. Frame data and animation changes minor, weighting halved. Common |
| Side special | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Up special | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Down special | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Extra credit | -2 | -1 Recoil damage mechanic. -1 Very different body types. |
| Total | 13 |
Fighter: Lucas
Parent: Ness
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Run speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air speed | 0 | |
| Air accel | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Fall speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Gravity | 0 | |
| Weight | 1 | |
| Jump height | 0 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0 | Both differ, run accel passes 10% rule |
| Shield size/stance | 0.5 | |
| Traction | 0 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.25 | 10% rule |
| Jab 1 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 2 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 3 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down tilt | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Dash attack | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward smash | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent Inspired |
| Up smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Nair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Fair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Uair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Bair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Dair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Grabs | 0 | Differ in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Back throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Neutral special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Side special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Inspired |
| Up special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Inspired |
| Extra credit | -0.5 | Lucas has a Zair and can tether |
| Total | 4.75 |
Fighter: Ganondorf
Parent: Captain Falcon
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0 | |
| Run speed | 0 | |
| Air speed | 0 | |
| Air accel | 0 | |
| Fall speed | 0 | |
| Gravity | 0 | |
| Weight | 0 | |
| Jump height | 0 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0 | Both differ. Run accel passes 10% rule |
| Shield size/stance | 0 | Size |
| Traction | 0 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0 | |
| Jab 1 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 2 | 0 | Absent for Ganondorf |
| Jab 3 | 0 | Absent for Ganondorf |
| Forward tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Dash attack | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Forward smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Nair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Fair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Uair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Bair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Dair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Grabs | 0 | All differ in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Back throw | 0.5 | Different hitbox/throw properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Up throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down throw | 0.5 | Different throw properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Neutral special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Side special | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Although common descent is present, the moves have diverged very far. Unique |
| Up special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down special | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor Inspired |
| Extra credit | -0.5 | -0.5 Ganondorf can't walljump. |
| Total | 3.75 |
Fighter: Daisy
Parent: Peach
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 1 | |
| Run speed | 1 | |
| Air speed | 1 | |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 1 | |
| Gravity | 1 | |
| Weight | 1 | |
| Jump height | 1 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0.5 | |
| Shield size/stance | 0.5 | |
| Traction | 0.5 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.5 | |
| Jab 1 | 1 | Identical |
| Jab 2 | 1 | Identical |
| Jab 3 | 1 | Both absent |
| Forward tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Up tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Down tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Dash attack | 1 | Identical |
| Forward smash | 1 | Identical |
| Up smash | 1 | Identical |
| Down smash | 1 | Identical |
| Nair | 1 | Identical |
| Fair | 1 | Identical |
| Uair | 1 | Identical |
| Bair | 1 | Identical |
| Dair | 1 | Identical |
| Grabs | 1 | Identical |
| Forward throw | 1 | Identical |
| Back throw | 1 | Identical |
| Up throw | 1 | Identical |
| Down throw | 1 | Identical |
| Neutral special | 1 | Identical |
| Side special | 1 | Identical |
| Up special | 1 | Identical |
| Down special | 1 | Identical |
| Extra credit | 0 | |
| Total | 34 |
Fighter: Lucina
Parent: Marth
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 1 | |
| Run speed | 1 | |
| Air speed | 1 | |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 1 | |
| Gravity | 1 | |
| Weight | 1 | |
| Jump height | 1 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0.5 | |
| Shield size/stance | 0.5 | |
| Traction | 0.5 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.5 | |
| Jab 1 | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Jab 2 | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Jab 3 | 1 | Both absent |
| Forward tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Up tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Down tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Dash attack | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Forward smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Up smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Down smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Nair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Fair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Uair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Bair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Dair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Grabs | 1 | Identical |
| Forward throw | 1 | Identical |
| Back throw | 1 | Identical |
| Up throw | 1 | Identical |
| Down throw | 1 | Identical |
| Neutral special | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and animation, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Common |
| Side special | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Up special | 1 | Identical |
| Down special | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and animation, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Common |
| Extra credit | 0 | |
| Total | 29.25 |
Fighter: Roy
Parent: Marth
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0 | |
| Run speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air speed | 0 | |
| Air accel | 0 | |
| Fall speed | 0 | |
| Gravity | 0 | |
| Weight | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Jump height | 0 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0 | |
| Shield size/stance | 0 | Both differ |
| Traction | 0.25 | 10% rule |
| Fastfall speed | 0 | |
| Jab 1 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 2 | 0 | Absent |
| Jab 3 | 1 | Both absent |
| Forward tilt | 0.25 | Different hitbox properties and animation. Frame data differences minor (1 fewer active frames). Inspired |
| Up tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down tilt | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Dash attack | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up smash | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Down smash | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Nair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Fair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Uair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Bair | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Dair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Grabs | 0.75 | Different frame data. Grabbox changes minor (slightly less extended). Copied |
| Forward throw | 0.75 | Different throw properties. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Back throw | 0.5 | Different throw properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Up throw | 0.75 | Different throw properties. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Down throw | 0.5 | Different throw properties. Animation and frame data changes minor, weighting halved. Common |
| Neutral special | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Although common descent is present, the moves have diverged very far. Unique |
| Side special | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Frame data changes minor (final attacks only have slightly more ending lag). Copied |
| Up special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with the same origin and clear common descent. Inspired |
| Extra credit | 0 | |
| Total | 10.25 |
Fighter: Chrom
Parent: Roy
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 1 | |
| Run speed | 1 | |
| Air speed | 1 | |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 1 | |
| Gravity | 1 | |
| Weight | 1 | |
| Jump height | 1 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0.5 | |
| Shield size/stance | 0.5 | |
| Traction | 0.5 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.5 | |
| Jab 1 | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Jab 2 | 1 | Both absent |
| Jab 3 | 1 | Both absent |
| Forward tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Up tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Down tilt | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Dash attack | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Forward smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Up smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Down smash | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Nair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Fair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Uair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Bair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Dair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Grabs | 1 | Identical |
| Forward throw | 1 | Identical |
| Back throw | 1 | Identical |
| Up throw | 1 | Identical |
| Down throw | 1 | Identical |
| Neutral special | 1 | Hitbox property changes minor. Identical |
| Side special | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Up special | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down special | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Extra credit | 0 | |
| Total | 29.25 |
Fighter: Dark Pit
Parent: Pit
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 1 | |
| Run speed | 1 | |
| Air speed | 1 | |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 1 | |
| Gravity | 1 | |
| Weight | 1 | |
| Jump height | 1 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0.5 | |
| Shield size/stance | 0.5 | |
| Traction | 0.5 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.5 | |
| Jab 1 | 1 | Identical |
| Jab 2 | 1 | Identical |
| Jab 3/rapid jab | 1 | Identical |
| Forward tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Up tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Down tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Dash attack | 1 | Identical |
| Forward smash | 1 | Identical |
| Up smash | 1 | Identical |
| Down smash | 1 | Identical |
| Nair | 1 | Identical |
| Fair | 1 | Identical |
| Uair | 1 | Identical |
| Bair | 1 | Identical |
| Dair | 1 | Identical |
| Grabs | 1 | Identical |
| Forward throw | 1 | Identical |
| Back throw | 1 | Identical |
| Up throw | 1 | Identical |
| Down throw | 1 | Identical |
| Neutral special | 0.75 | Different projectile properties. Copied |
| Side special | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Up special | 1 | Identical |
| Down special | 1 | Identical |
| Extra credit | 0 | |
| Total | 33.5 |
Fighter: Toon Link
Parent: Young Link*
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Run speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air accel | 0 | |
| Fall speed | 0 | |
| Gravity | 0 | |
| Weight | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Jump height | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0 | Both differ. Run accel passes 10% rule |
| Shield size/stance | 0.25 | 10% rule, size |
| Traction | 0 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0 | |
| Jab 1 | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Jab 2 | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Jab 3 | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties. Frame data and animation changes minor, weighting halved. Common |
| Forward tilt | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Up tilt | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Down tilt | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Dash attack | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Forward smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down smash | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Nair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Fair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Uair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Bair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Dair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Grabs | 0.25 | Differ in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Forward throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Back throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Neutral special | 0.5 | Different projectile properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Side special | 0.5 | Different projectile properties and animation. Common |
| Up special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down special | 0.5 | Different projectile properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Extra credit | -1.5 | -1 Toon Link has a very different body type. -0.5 Toon Link lacks a rapid jab or finisher |
| Total | 8 |
*Toon Link was Young Link's replacement in Brawl, and served as a more extreme version of Young Link's archetype. In Ultimate, he has more in common with Young Link than Link, and thus only this pairing will be assessed.
Fighter: Wolf
Parent: Fox
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0 | |
| Run speed | 0 | |
| Air speed | 0 | |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 0 | |
| Gravity | 0 | |
| Weight | 0 | |
| Jump height | 0 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0 | Run accel |
| Shield size/stance | 0 | Both differ |
| Traction | 0.25 | 10% rule |
| Fastfall speed | 0 | |
| Jab 1 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 2 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 3/rapid jab | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Dash attack | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Forward smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Nair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Fair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Uair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Bair | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Dair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Grabs | 0.5 | Different grabbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. |
| Forward throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Back throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down throw | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Neutral special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Side special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Up special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down special | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Extra credit | 0 | |
| Total | 3.25 |
Fighter: Isabelle
Parent: Villager
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Run speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Gravity | 0 | |
| Weight | 0.5 | 10% rule |
| Jump height | 1 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0.5 | |
| Shield size/stance | 0 | Both differ |
| Traction | 0.5 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.25 | 10% rule |
| Jab 1 | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Jab 2 | 0 | Absent |
| Jab finisher | 0 | Absent |
| Forward tilt | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Up tilt | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down tilt | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Animation changes minor. Common |
| Dash attack | 0.75 | Different frame data. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Forward smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Down smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Nair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Fair | 1 | Animation changes minor. Identical |
| Uair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Bair | 1 | Animation changes minor. Identical |
| Dair | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Grabs | 0.75 | Different animations, with clear common descent. Frame data changes minor (1 frame less startup on dash grab only). Copied |
| Forward throw | 0.75 | Different throw properties. Animation changes minor. Copied |
| Back throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Up throw | 0.25 | Differs in all 3 categories, but with clear common descent. Inspired |
| Down throw | 0.5 | Different throw properties and animation, with clear common descent. Common |
| Neutral special | 1 | Animation changes minor (failure only). Identical |
| Side special | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up special | 0.5 | Different frame data and animation, with clear common descent. Common |
| Down special | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Extra credit | -0.5 | Isabelle can tether. |
| Total | 14.25 |
Fighter: Ken
Parent: Ryu
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 0 | |
| Run speed | 0 | |
| Air speed | 1 | |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 1 | |
| Gravity | 1 | |
| Weight | 1 | |
| Jump height | 1 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0 | Both differ |
| Shield size/stance | 0.5 | |
| Traction | 0.5 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.5 | |
| Jab 1 | 0.5 | Light version identical, heavy version unique. |
| Jab 2 | 1 | Identical |
| Jab 3 | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Forward tilt | 0.5 | Light version identical, heavy version unique. |
| Up tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Down tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Dash attack | 1 | Identical |
| Forward smash | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Up smash | 1 | Identical |
| Down smash | 1 | Identical |
| Nair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Fair | 1 | Identical |
| Uair | 0 | Differs in all 3 categories. Unique |
| Bair | 1 | Identical |
| Dair | 1 | Identical |
| Grabs | 1 | Identical |
| Forward throw | 1 | Identical |
| Back throw | 0.5 | Different frame data and animation, with clear common descent. Common |
| Up throw | 1 | Frame data changes minor (collateral hit window 2 frames later). Identical |
| Down throw | 1 | Identical |
| Neutral special | 0.75 | Different projectile properties. Frame data changes minor (1 extra frame startup). Copied |
| Side special | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and frame data. Common |
| Up special | 0.75 | Different hitbox properties. Copied |
| Down special | 0.5 | Different hitbox properties and animation, with the same origina and clear common descent. Frame data changes minor (hitbox window 1 frame later). Common |
| Extra credit | -2 | Ken has 2 unique command input moves, Oosoto Mawashi Geri and Nata Otoshi Geri. -1 for each. |
| Total | 23.25 |
Fighter: Richter
Parent: Simon
| Category | Score | Details |
|---|---|---|
| Walk speed | 1 | |
| Run speed | 1 | |
| Air speed | 1 | |
| Air accel | 1 | |
| Fall speed | 1 | |
| Gravity | 1 | |
| Weight | 1 | |
| Jump height | 1 | |
| Initial dash/run accel | 0.5 | |
| Shield size/stance | 0.5 | |
| Traction | 0.5 | |
| Fastfall speed | 0.5 | |
| Jab 1 | 1 | Identical |
| Jab 2 | 1 | Identical |
| Jab 3 | 1 | Identical |
| Forward tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Up tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Down tilt | 1 | Identical |
| Dash attack | 1 | Identical |
| Forward smash | 1 | Identical |
| Up smash | 1 | Identical |
| Down smash | 1 | Identical |
| Nair | 1 | Identical |
| Fair | 1 | Identical |
| Uair | 1 | Identical |
| Bair | 1 | Identical |
| Dair | 1 | Identical |
| Grabs | 1 | Identical |
| Forward throw | 1 | Identical |
| Back throw | 1 | Identical |
| Up throw | 1 | Identical |
| Down throw | 1 | Identical |
| Neutral special | 1 | Identical |
| Side special | 1 | Identical |
| Up special | 1 | Identical |
| Down special | 1 | Hitbox property changes minor (attack effect: fire -> aura). Identical |
| Extra credit | 0 | |
| Total | 34 |
Evaluation[edit]
Here, I have graphed the scores of each fighter, to help visualize their scores relative to each other. Echo Fighters' bars are coloured red. This is the result:
As you can see, there are certainly some controversial picks here, but overall I think this has turned out pretty well. The fact that Echo Fighters naturally floated to the top of the scoreboard is certainly reassuring. So now, the question inevitably becomes: "how would you classify each of the clones"? To be honest, I don't think the 3 category model used on the Clone article is no longer nuanced enough to satisfactorily categories the clones, as of Ultimate. But, if I had to categorize them, based on the graph, this is how I would divide the categories:
Final thoughts[edit]
Obviously, the results I obtained don't quite line up with the current interpretations on the Clone article. That's ok. I very much expected that, since it uses a similar method to Cloneosity, and therefore, in my opinion, is also somewhat problematic. Maybe my take on assessing the clones of Ultimate might help, but I'd be lying if I said I expected that to be the case, since the Wiki seems pretty set in its ways about this.
If you have any questions, suggested improvements, or general comments about this project, please be sure to voice them on the talk page. Thanks for viewing!
Bonus[edit]
Disclaimer: unless stated otherwise, assume that any bonus content is opinion-based.
DLC Loaned Moves[edit]
Loaned moves are moves that resemble a move that another fighter possesses, but which belong to a non-clone character. DLC fighters have quite a few of these.
Kazuya[edit]
| Move | Origin | Similarity |
|---|---|---|
| Forward tilt | Ganondorf ftilt | Medium |
| Forward-down tilt (hit 2) | Ryu/Ken up throw + Ken heavy jab | Medium |
| Back tilt | Ryu heavy jab/Ken Oosoto Mawashi Geri | High |
| Devil Wings | Wing Blitz | Low |
| Forward smash | Mii Brawler fsmash | Low |
| Up smash | Ryu/Ken usmash | Medium |
| Neutral air | Ryu/Ken Dair | High |
| Forward air | Terry Fair | High |
| Up air | Ken Uair | Medium |
| Back air | Terry Bair | High |
| Down air | Bayonetta Dair | Low |
