Talk:Wario (SSBB)

Up and Neutral Moves

Hey, where did this random stuff come from? I want full on photo or interwiew proof. No speculation. --Oxico 12:33, December 31, 2007 (EST)

Half of what this JumpFesta guy says is untrue. It isn't fully reliable and really it is just the word of one guy. I do NOT think we should put that. I think the dude just speculated all that stuff (or at least some of it). Like how the guy says Wario's dash A is his shoulder tackle. Speculated, since in videos, we see Wario doing some sort of baseball slide as an attack. This info isn't even half as biased as King Dedede's neutral B attack!--Oxico 19:51, January 2, 2008 (EST)

Thats not speculation its been confirmed get over it, because u think it's not doesn't mean its not. Majora1000 9:20 AM, Januaray 4, 2008

OK, it may not be EXACTLY speculated, but it is NOT from a reputable source. If you want, put the info in, but at LEAST put a "Speculation" tag. That guy isn't 100% trustable. --Oxico 16:07, January 4, 2008 (EST)

Clean up

Can someone clean up the last paragraph of this page? I suck at cleaning up stuff. ~ShadowZeroKaras~

i removed it altogether as it was mostly trivia. FyreNWater 03:25, August 11, 2007 (EDT)

Alliegiance

I'm not sure Wario was in the army. Sure, he had a Dark Cannon, but he also seemed to be keeping trophies for himself, and also, the army didn't hesitate to bomb him at the ruins. 99.252.247.77 07:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Old info

Do we really need info in the top paragraph about his D-air and Chomp? That was about all the info we had about ten monthes ago but now I think it doesn't belong there. Isn't the top paragraph for basic info like the when he was announced or whatever?Maxiscool (talk) 23:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Wario gets nerfed

"not all characters have a grab release option against Wario" tested this....seems every character does indeed have an air grab release option on him,after wario gets around 15% damage most characters can pummel him once then do nothing and wait for him to be released and he will be released airborne,the percentage might alter slightly depending on the characters pummel speed,most can use their upsmash on him(some of them have to move slightly forward to hit)and some can use their side smash,but every character has some move they can use on wario after air release,meta knight can shuttle loop him from an air release,and a great deal of characters can regrab him infinitely,although the timing might be tricky and if you miss youd likely end up taking a forward smash to the face Gig (talk) 22:28, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Diddy doesn't have a grab release option on Wario, so the sentence "not all characters have a grab release option" is true. Toomai Glittershine 22:51, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

diddy kong can hit him with both his upsmash and side smash,although only the final hit of both will hit so obviously its best to hit with side smash since the second hit of the side smash is where all the knockback is,you can also follow up with one of diddys aerials,preferably his fair,also diddy is one of the characters who can infinitely regrab him,by the way im not 100% sure about all this since all this testing was done against a CPU so please do have someone else,two human players,confirm it,oh and this doesnt work on training mode,it has to be in versus,wario doesnt air release in training modeGig (talk) 23:15, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

If it's only against a CPU, then why try to even argue about how what we said is false. With 2 human players, it simply doesn't work. Use correct spelling, spacing, and the like.--MegaTron1XD 23:17, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

well you dont always need a human oponent to test something,chain grabs and grab releases for example,but why wouldnt the air release work against wario with diddy kong?not being a smart ass,id really like to know,i might have an idea but i cant be certainGig (talk) 23:26, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

You always need a human to test something. Fox can chaingrab an Ike CPU. Impossible with a human. You can easily edgeguard CPUs with certain tatics. Doesn't work with humans. Anything that relates to some kind of match, whether it be a melee, brawl, or a fight in the original, needs confirmation that it works against a human. Tatics that fail against humans, even though they work against CPUs, are considered failed tatics, which do not deserve mentioning. The game's AI is not as great as real intelligence shown by humans. This should hopefully clear things up.--MegaTron1XD 23:30, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

To elaborate: Sufficiently-skilled players will know what direction to DI/roll/etc to avoid follow-ups and chains, as they have the experience to know what to do in such a situation. This can be as simple as DI'ing away from a multi-hit attack or as complicated as DI'ing into an attack to catch the sourspot, but the point is that they know how to avoid what's coming. CPUs merely know that they've been hit/thrown/released/etc and will do something based on the current situation, unable to know that they've got another thing coming. Toomai Glittershine 23:36, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

I'm not so sure the purpose of this section is for, but judging by the title, if it's supposed to be something about why Wario should be lower on the tier list, this isn't the place to argue it. In response to the comment that you can never test something on a cpu, there are some things that can be, specifically grab releases. You can't DI a grab release, and when being grab released, you have to rely on timing/reflex to get out, which cpus do not slack in the latter. So something like a grab release can be tested on cpus while replicating similar results on humans. But yes, anything that proved successful on cpus should ideally be tested on a human controlled subject, to see if results are replicated. Omega Tyrant 23:45, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

hmmm well thats not 100% true but i guess youre right,just did some quick retesting...and although every character does have an air grab release follow up the only way wario will air release is if he actually struggles to get out of the grab,otherwise he just releases normally,he only auto air releases if he gets picked up off the ground from a grab,my mistake,by the way i cant chain grab a CPU ike with fox......Gig (talk) 23:57, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

You can do a "pseudo" chain throw on characters, like Ike, using Fox's f-throw. Pseudo chain throws however, tend to have more success on cpus than humans as they rely on the opponent doing something wrong for you to be able to regrab, unlike a true chain throw where regrabbing relies on you (opponent can DI and such to avoid being regrabbed, but as long as you operate the chain throw correctly, your opponent won't escape until you decide to end the chain throw or they reached the point where they can be chain thrown no more). Omega Tyrant 00:05, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

yes i know,but i tried and ike neutral jabed me,just saying CPUs arent all that stupidGig (talk) 00:13, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

by the way shouldnt the article say what characters specificly have grab release options on him,as far as i know peach,bowser,yoshi,wario himself,sheik,zelda,ganondorf,zero suit samus,captain falcon,marth,ike,and snake all have a grab release option on him,and all of them except for sheik and snake can infinitely regrab him,but again this was tested on a CPU so i dont know if its because theyre actuall infinites and grab release options or the computer just doesnt know how to react,has this been tested yet?Gig (talk) 08:57, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

It's not exactly our job to provide matchup-specific information (which a list of grab releasers would be). Toomai Glittershine 10:24, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

hmmm i see....well ill just post what i know here on the talk page,let anyone who sees it test it for themselves

the specific moves i tested were

peach-up smash after moving forward slightly/side smash/up tilt/side tilt/short hop fair

bowser-up smash while dashing/up tilt after moving forward slightly

yoshi-up smash/side smash/short hop up air

wario-up air/side smash/up angled side tilt

zelda/sheik-up smash after moving forward slightly

zelda-lightning kick(sweetspoted)

ganondorf/captain falcon-up angled forward smash

captain falcon-short hop justice knee(sweetspoted)

zero suit samus-down smash

marth-up smash after moving forward slightly(tiped)/side smash(non tiped)

ike-up smash/up tilt/up angled side tilt

snake-up tilt

there are other moves they can land but these are the only ones that really seem relevant since they are KO moves(excluding ZSS down smash,which is a combo starting move)like i said non of this is certain,let anyone who cares enough test it for themselves with a human oponent,and should it be confirmed to work,smashwiki can later decide for themselves if informing wario players of dangerous matchups is relevant enough or not to go on the articleGig (talk) 11:34, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

While I do appreciate testing done for the Wiki, I'm not sure if this information is necessary or even suitable for the article. As Toomai said, as of now, this Wiki's scope doesn't cover matchup specific information other than the matchup ratios, except in extreme cases, such as mentioning Dedede's infinite chain throw on Donkey Kong in the Donkey Kong article. None of these possible grab releases lead to a matchup that proves excruciatingly difficult for Wario. And as I'm aware of, about every character has some sort of follow up after a grab release, to where I would find it unnecessary to list every single one. Another problem with the information, I don't see how it can be added into the article while remaining fitting and keeping the Wario article consistent with the other SSBB character articles. Mentioning some of the more notable examples in the attributes section, such as Captain Falcon's grab release follow up to sweetspotted fair, and Snake's grab release follow up to u-tilt, is acceptable in my opinion. But listing every single one is unnecessary to me as of now.

So in conclusion, I'm of the opinion that this grab release follow up information is useful, and while fitting for a Wario guide, I don't think it's fitting or necessary in our Wiki article about Wario as a Brawl character. Omega Tyrant 12:18, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

Hmm...

So, apparently the alternate costumes of Wario are different. See there.T.testLPThe Communicator|The...WhateverGanondorf da bess! 07:58, 9 December 2010 (EST)

Well, they were clearly different models rather than just recolours anyway. No great shock that there's some slight differences in proportion as a result. - Reboot (talk) 08:06, 9 December 2010 (EST)