User talk:Omega Tyrant/Archive 12

If you say You and no 1 else in the block of 74.75.9.45, I won't vandalize anymore. AND DON'T SAY VANDALISM OR I'LL FORCED YOU TO DIE!

This page is an archive. Do not edit the contents of this page. Direct any additional comments to the current talk page.

Le Lyra here

Something has to be done about IRC in my opinion. I don't even care about what happens next, to me or IRC, but hear me out at least. Sure, I was wrong, I'll admit. But it isn't right that I can be called a fag for playing CoD, a game I can genuinely enjoy :/.

What disturbs me most, though, is that policies don't apply to IRC, right? Then shouldn't I have gotten away with what I did? Shwido did (SW:NPA). Anyway, I believe Wiki policies should apply to ANYTHING related or associated with this wiki, no matter if it's part of the domain name or not. Just my 2 cents, and I'm not asking for an unban. ~~(Do I really need to sign? I'm just an IP...)~~ 24.6.47.48 22:12, 9 April 2012 (EDT)

But it isn't right that I can be called a fag for playing CoD, a game I can genuinely enjoy

As PoD already told you, X fag is meaningless in terms of an insult on the internet. New fag, tourney fag, Sonic fag, etc., these aren't actual insults, and taking them as such is foolish on your part. If you're sensitive to the word "fag" being used in some form, you can ask others to not use the word, but do not take it as it calling you a "faggot" in the traditional sense.

What disturbs me most, though, is that policies don't apply to IRC, right?

IRC has its own ruleset, which you can see here SW:IRC.

Then shouldn't I have gotten away with what I did?

No, even if Shwido was guilty of a PA, you attacked and instigated him first.

Shwido did (SW:NPA)

Refer to the previous point about "fag". Being called a "CoD fag" is being called a CoD fanboy, not a personal attack.

Anyway, I believe Wiki policies should apply to ANYTHING related or associated with this wiki, no matter if it's part of the domain name or not.

IRC is a different entity from the Wiki. Blindly applying all SmashWiki policies to IRC is utterly foolish.

Just my 2 cents, and I'm not asking for an unban.

You weren't banned, you were kicked. You're free to reenter the channel whenever you want. When on the receiving end of a serious kick, that is a strong indicator to curb your behavior on the IRC.

Do I really need to sign? I'm just an IP...

Every talk page post must have a time stamp and an easy, immediate way to identify who posted it. There are no exceptions to not signing. Omega Tyrant 22:36, 9 April 2012 (EDT)

Dude, a personal attack is intended for harm. Shwido is not cuber-bullying you. Anyways, arguments can be stopped and by an administrator. We don't need to change the rules.LightningBlue: LBPeep 18:25, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

Can you block me?

BLOCK ME BLOCK ME! - User:Lemmykoopy --User was temp banned for this post

Rename me, please

Hello, OT.

First off, thanks for being an amazing contributor to this wiki and other NIWA wikis. I really appreciate what you've done.

Secondly, could you please rename me DarkFox01? I now have a solid main in Fox, and I don't play Melee that much anymore.

Thanks again! Melee Marth 01 11:58, 14 April 2012 (EDT)

OT isn't a bureaucrat, so he can't rename users. The only active bureaucrats are Toomai and Clarinet Hawk, so try them. Toast

ltimatum

12:12, 14 April 2012 (EDT)

Toomai dealt with it. Dark Fox 01 12:41, 14 April 2012 (EDT)

Fine, Sorry for My Behaviour

Look, I only wanted Unknown, someone from yt to come back. I'm sorry for my behaviour, and I promise I WILL help improve the wiki, To make me not welcome here, I have to not be welcome on SmashWikia. Now, take my apologies for my awful behaviour. I have autism.

Around half of the active users here have some form of autism, including a bureaucrat, and they are fully capable of being responsible and well behaved users that contribute constructively to the Wiki. Being autistic is no excuse for your behavior. Omega Tyrant 05:48, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

I geel guilt for my behaviour here. I promise to help me iki. Please forgive and that I'm sorry. I will behave. To not come here I have to be unwelcome to the SmmashWikia. I have right to edit whever I want thankyou. Don't block my IP.

You have the right to edit where you want as long as you aren't a stubborn idiot who insists that his edits are always needed and correct. Mega Tron1 XD 10:17, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

CuriousUser, you seriously need to shut the fuck up. Unknown the Hedgehog 17:44, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

Don't tell me to shut up. Now am 16 so you can't boss me about Unknown. Now answer me, I know you will be back on yt soon as you said "Zi'd rather start a whole new account then to spent time with your winging". You're the reason I cam here. Sorry OT, I will help improve the wiki.

Actually, you probably should shut up. You can be 16 all you want, but you have the grammar skills of a child in 4th grade. If you're going to "improve the wiki", you should just leave the wiki. You're making everything worse, and your attempts to improve the Wiki so far include assaulting two users here. Stop being a retard, and go away if you have nothing else to discuss. Mega Tron1 XD 09:58, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

I like your style

Used to be, I'd block an IP and ShadowCrest would be complaining about it and shortening the block. You just up the ban length and range block those fools. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 09:46, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

This particular user is one of those long-term abusers. He's got quite the block history on Wikipedia too. Toomai Glittershine The Jiggy 10:00, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

If I was still active and cared I'd probably complain about this too. As is, I'm not active and don't care-- too lazy to even look up the block you're referring to CH. :p – Emmett 20:38, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

universe category tagging

For example, Mario appearing as a trophy in Brawl but Mario is from the Mario universe but the trophy is from directly from the Super Smash Bros., should I still tag the trophy images with whatever kind of category universe the character or whatever is from that the trophy shows? ..... The StarCraft 17:31, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

Tag with the universe the character is from, except in the case of Smash and Final Smash trophies of characters, which should have a Smash universe tag. Omega Tyrant 17:39, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

So in that case the ones that have a trophy that has info about a character's special moves should not be tagged. ..... The StarCraft 17:45, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

Still no new icons

Seems like ShupaRoeh is being lazy. Smash Master 18:06, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

I would appreciate anyone replacing old icons, it doesn't have to be ShupaRoeh. Omega Tyrant 18:09, 18 April 2012 (EDT)

What new icons? ShupaRoeh 19:27, 26 May 2012 (EDT)

All has now been fixed. Toast

ltimatum

19:34, 26 May 2012 (EDT)

Actually, i had a 3ds at the time. my computer broke, and i was new with replacing icons with 3ds SuperGameandWatch 00:52, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

Please read this now.

So, you're an admin. Well, I'm good at what I do as well. What I do is fuck up wikis like this one. Here's the deal: From time to time, I'll drop by and ask some favors of members of your wiki. They will do them. These generally will be things like spamming other sites, supporting certain positions, tweeting support for whatever I tell them to. If you don't agree, I will mess this wiki up. And no, you will not be able to just revert some simple vandalism. I have infinite patience and creativity. You don't want to fuck with me. Deal? 176.31.226.184 11:37, 20 April 2012 (EDT)] --User was temp banned for this post

I have a question

I was just wonder why you keep blocking me? I know you said because i made too many edits, but i was fixing things like spelling and grammar mistakes. So can you just tell me how my edits effect you? Thanks! Mich5643 (talk) 18:23, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

You could either use the preview option or not care as much about your user page. Your user page is not the most important thing on Smash Wiki, so perhaps you could tone down (You should tone down, but that's just me and a bunch of other users). Mega Tron1 XD 18:29, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

If you know you're going to be correcting multiple sections of the same page, try to get all of those changes done in a single edit by clicking the "edit this page" button at the top of the page. Also use the preview button, as Megatron1 has said. 123 James Heart

18:48, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

Simply what the two above me said. When editing on the SmashWiki, you do your editing in one edit.

but i was fixing things like spelling and grammar mistakes.

That is exactly what the preview button is for. Use it.

So can you just tell me how my edits effect you?

Every single edit you make appears in the recent changes. When you make a large amount of edits on the same page, you get essentially the same edit taking multiple places on the recent changes. This in turn prematurely knock other edits off the recent changes, and makes it more difficult to spot other edits, including potential vandalism. Omega Tyrant 15:07, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

T-Man

Hey, it's Toriansturgess. Just letting you know for the alternate music page, there is an 87.5 % chance of alternate music playing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Toriansturgess (talk • contribs) 23:07, 26 April 2012 (EST)

Are you talking about alternate background music in Melee? If so, the chance is much lower than that. Omega Tyrant 19:45, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

Zeldasmash

I don't know about you, but I think Zeldasmash has worked hard enough to warrant the unprotection of his userspace. He's made some pretty major contributions, such as updating the Matchup Chart a few months back, which would have taken a lot of work. I may not be in a position to say that, but what do you think about it? After all, if he starts clogging everything up again, his userspace can be reprotected again. Toast ltimatum 08:23, 27 April 2012 (EDT)

His userspace edits still account for more than half his edits, while mainspace combined with template accounts for less than a quarter (and he doesn't make constructive contributions elsewhere). Along with that, his editing is off and on, and he has repeatedly tried to evade the userpage locking by editing a subpage (which is a blockable offense). It's going to take more than a couple of matchup chart updates for him to get his userspace unlocked. Omega Tyrant 11:19, 27 April 2012 (EDT)

Sorry

I feel guilt for my behaviour. Unknown the Hedgehog was a good chatpal on yt and I want him back. He will be back one day as he said "I'd Rather Start a Whole New Account than to have you Hassle me". I will help improvbe the wiki. Now, you can't not accept my apology forever like the main page says "Anyone Can Edit". (Reply from OT or UH255). 124.169.96.89 00:35, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

From what I've seen of you, and from what I've heard from a user nearby my area, I think you really should just stop being so naive! He'd rather start a whole new account because you annoy him, so what makes you think he'll come back because of your begging? And anyone can edit, but that doesn't mean your edit always makes sense. You, my good sir, make no sense, so stop bothering people here ^_^ 108.194.146.62 00:43, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

"Anyone can edit" does not mean everyone can do what they want on the Wiki with no consequence. Omega Tyrant 04:00, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

Delete

Delete User:Avengingbandit/MatchupCalcSubst please. Avengingbandit 10:24, 20 May 2012 (EDT)

So uh

It's been a month and a half since you've done anything around here, you planning on coming back any time soon? You tend to give reasons for hiatuses so people are a bit curious. Toomai Glittershine The Ghostbuster 18:35, 17 July 2012 (EDT)

Happy Birthday!

Thanks for everything you've done to help out the NIWA! DarkFox01: Smashing in Summer 14:29, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

Yo

Good to see you back.--Bandit 02:59, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

Don't expect him to stay here, he just wants to Brawl Fugudev, which is understandable, considering Fugudev's skill level. Toast

ltimatum

09:46, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

He's only probably just visiting once in a while. :P Dots The PSI Asian 10:59, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

Not to be rude, but he gives me a headache. Smash Master 09:33, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

He sometimes overlooks mistakes. ShupaRoeh 09:44, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

And this requires you to make a talk page post why, Smash Master? Sometimes you don't have to have a word in. Toast

ltimatum

11:05, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

Sorry for the match

Hello, this is Fugudev's brother here. I am coming in to notify you of a dental appointment that Fugudev urgently needed to go to. Even though Fugudev knew of the appointment, he was unclear with the time. He will apologize for this abrupt interruption of gameplay. If you want to, you could list another time to brawl with him. I am replying to make sure that you don't take it like he purposely rage-quit those matches in fear. Once again, I am so sorry for this poor oversight. 68.184.238.232 16:46, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

It's fine, I know what a ragequit is like, and I didn't suspect him of doing it at all. Omega Tyrant 17:03, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

I'm sorry too. FishPlay (talk) 17:33, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

Formatting note

When replying to other users, you tend to quote them sentence by sentence and respond that way (I believe the term for this is a Gish Gallop). While the intent seems to be a response to each point, some of your points end up redundant. At least from a visual standpoint, I think it would be easier to read your argument if you responded in your own section, maybe quoting individual sentences when the sentence acts as a list (for example addressing the individual vandal attack references). Mr. Anon talk 21:14, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

Show specific examples from the Toast debate of redundancy, I do not see it. Omega Tyrant 02:12, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

Quoting this section of your argument:

"Calling PoD and Emmett "Out of touch dinosaurs that don't do shit" is certainly directed at those users themselves, and not their actions."

"Out of touch" is an action of theirs. "Don't do shit" is an action of theirs. Was it kindly worded? No. But non kind words =/= attack.

"the "Comments should not be personalized and should be directed at content and actions rather than people." rule is in the SW:NPA page"

Those were indeed "actions", saying the users' names guilty of those actions is not a personal attack. Read the guidelines on what a personal attack is actually like.

...

"which you are doing by outright breaking the rule about not directing comments at users in particular."

We're not "SuperHappySmashWiki", where you can't say anything that may be construed as negative about another user. It is not forbidden to direct comments at users, nor will it ever be. Learn what a personal attack is.

"And I can say one thing for sure, if I were PoD, I wouldn't take kindly to having those words thrown at me"

If you were PoD and got offended by those words, how about actually get in touch with the community and do shit if you're going to hold on to your admin position?

All these responses make pretty much the same point, and they were all in a single point. You could have simplified this by just saying "in response to your comments about PoD and Emmett..." and then making your main points. Mr. Anon talk 00:51, 8 August 2012 (EDT)

First line was to tell Toast the actions done and that simply not being kindly worded doesn't equal a PA. Second line repeated the action bit, but it was still a separate point, as it pointed out that directing a comment at another user is not a PA. Third line could of been merged with previous lines, but no big deal. Fourth line was a completely separate point about a ridiculous, irrelevant comment from Toast. Omega Tyrant 09:17, 8 August 2012 (EDT)

@Anon: I find that this sort of thing is not hard to follow in any way. There's not a single reason you should be telling OT how he should format his argument. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} 12:12, 8 August 2012 (EDT)

If Omega Tyrant has a problem with me giving him tips to reduce redundancy, he should say so. Mr. Anon talk 12:24, 8 August 2012 (EDT)

Frame data

Exactly where can you get frame data? Smash Master 13:31, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

Smashboards. Omega Tyrant 13:34, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

Or me. :P

Kirby's nair in Melee: interruptible on 51, animation length 79
Kirby's nair in Brawl: interruptible on 73, animation length 79

While it's incorrect to say that the Brawl version has no interruptibility, one can certainly say that it is significantly reduced. Toomai Glittershine The SMASH-GINEER 19:32, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

Protection

Should we protect Emment's talk page? He always seems to be the target for SmashPeter. Dots The PSI Asian 14:02, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

The level of vandalism is nothing we can't handle right now. Talk pages should only be protected as a last resort. Mr. Anon talk 14:35, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Look at the Unknown and constant Curious harassment. Such a circumstance is pretty much the only time a talk page should get protection when the talk page doesn't belong to a banned user. Omega Tyrant 14:46, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

It's also a viable way to get in touch with me, since all edits to my talkpage send me an email. Deleting two emails every ~month isn't a big deal. – Emmett 17:46, 11 August 2012 (EDT)

Hello

I am concerned with your attitude as of late. Several posts of yours have been unnecessarily rude, including your comments (and edit summaries) on Toast's RfA, random potshots at old admins (that you later tried to weasel out of) and general disdain for the community, and just being a general prick to ~~random users~~ someone that you apparently had a personal issue with.

Before you give me some shit about being a hypocrite (which you were also too lazy to support here-- remember, the burden is on those asserting the positive), keep in mind that even if I am a hypocrite I'm still not wrong. I've spoken to a couple other users (including ones who you can't claim also have a bad attitude like me) who agree that your attitude is pretty poor. For some reason I thought I had called you out on this before, but the only things I can find are some kind-of-vague comments here and here, so I guess now is the time. This kind of behavior is unbecoming of an admin, especially one who seems to regard himself as doing the wiki a favor by precluding other candidates. Do better. – Emmett 18:52, 23 August 2012 (EDT)

I'd like to note that HeidiHedgefox had a history on IRC that was the basis of some of OT's comments there, so she was not quite a "random user". Mr. Anon talk 19:57, 23 August 2012 (EDT)

Also, I thought several of these things had been settled already. I'm not sure why they are being brought up all of a sudden right now (other than the one that specifically was about you). Mr. Anon talk 20:08, 23 August 2012 (EDT)

Individual things may have been "settled" (whatever that really means in this context), but this is more about a pattern of behavior that's emerging, not about the instances by themselves. The history between HeidiHedgefox and OT is another, somewhat related, matter, but the problem with what Emmett linked was that the tone was entirely inappropriate for an admin, regardless of the situation, but especially inappropriate given that it was with a user with whom he had a personal history. Admins should strive to maintain professionalism at all times, and OT simply has not been doing that. Penguin of Death 04:48, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

Quite a bit late to bring this up, don't you think? You been around here for about a week now, and now decide to say something about it? Like Anon said, things already settled down. Saying something about it now is just stirring up unneeded Wiki drama.

Weasel out of? You can call the comments unnecessarily rude, uncalled for, whatever, I wasn't disputing that. They weren't the personal attacks as I was being accused of on the RfA. And I don't see the problem with my comments towards HeidiHedgefox. User randomly announces on their talk page that they're leaving like anyone cares, over a matter that they could easily fix if they actually done some shit on the Wiki, and I tell them what they could do if they cared that much about their userpage. And considering said user nearly caused a divide in the SmashWiki community with admitted lies, I was being a lot more kind there than I should of been (she really should of been permabanned to begin with for slandering an active admin and disrupting the flowing of the Wiki, while being a completely useless user).

Attitude poor or not, I'm actually doing shit on the Wiki, unlike yourself and the rest of the admins not named Toomai that insist on hanging around. For example, just look at the candidates for notability deletion. When I came back, there were about 100 smasher articles tagged, with no one seeming to give a fuck about it. I went through them all, and actually took the time to research them to make sure they were indeed not notable (unlike the typical admin style here of deleting any smasher article that gets tagged).

Despite my dislike of the community, I'm still interacting with the users of the community, while not being an ass to them all the time. I'm still in touch with the community, actually know who each user is and what they done, and still interact with them in a friendly manner. You can complain about my apparent disdain for the community all you want, it's a moot point when I put it aside to be a part of the community (and being an actual part of the community is something no other admin but Toomai can actually lay claim to).

Nonetheless, my "attitude" here is pretty much irrelevant. What matters is the actual content on the Wiki, something you and the majority of users seem to forget. Readers aren't going to give a damn if an admin is rude to other users, they're going to care about the actual information they're reading on the Wiki. There's a reason this Wiki is a laughingstock to the majority of the actual Smash community, and it ain't from a user calling out others in an apparently rude manner. An admin with a "poor attitude" that actually does things to improve the Wiki's content and put aside personal grievances to be a part of the community, will do this Wiki much better than admins that just sit on IRC and complain at other users for not fitting their views. It's quite telling when you, PoD, or any other admin disappears, no one really cares and just go about with their business. Yet when I do, users here were talking about it, and actually seek me outside the Wiki to talk to me about it. Even Toomai contacted me personally about it and asked if I was coming back, and when I asked him why the users here making a fuss over it, he told me "I think many people believe you to be a more useful contributor than other vanishing admins".

So yeah, before telling me to develop a better attitude, why not actually be a useful admin for once that actually helps the Wiki? If not, why not just leave for good, like you supposedly claim you were going to so long ago? Omega Tyrant 05:02, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

>"Despite my dislike of the community"

>"my apparent disdain for the community"

Pick one.

also, "Despite my dislike of the community [...] I'm still in touch with the community". I died laughing.

cba to put stuff in quotes regarding your second-to-last paragraph, which is pretty much just the most Tin-Plated Dictator with Delusions of Godhood thing I've ever read.

Regarding your comment as a whole: You were called out for having an attitude problem. Read your response again, and tell me exactly how it was meant to prove us wrong.

Penguin of Death 17:02, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

I don't want to get too involved in this, but I would like to point out that you, Omega Tyrant, are claiming that Emmett is not being a useful admin that's doing his job. This is ironic, because one of the jobs of a Bureaucrat is to be the superior to administrators, making sure they aren't abusing their position and revoking their power if necessary. I think this is a validated action for Emmett to take. Bringing up your opinion of Emmett also distracts from the point of the argument. And when Emmett brought this up is irrelevant. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} 18:47, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

"I died laughing" refutes shit, especially coming from an out of touch admin that doesn't help around. Come up with an actual response.

cba to put stuff in quotes regarding your second-to-last paragraph, which is pretty much just the most Tin-Plated Dictator with Delusions of Godhood thing I've ever read.

You're quite delusional if you're going to claim anything in that paragraph is false, especially when you're unable to provide any proof for it.

You were called out for having an attitude problem. Read your response again, and tell me exactly how it was meant to prove us wrong.

The point was, my so called "attitude problem" is pretty damn irrelevant when: 1. The problem I have is with old out of touch admins that insist on hanging around while not doing shit. 2. The relevant comments were made weeks ago and everyone has moved on since. 3. Whether one dislikes the community or not is completely irrelevant when they put it aside to actually help the damn wiki. 4. Said user with an "attitude problem" has been the most productive user this month regardless, and for the past two years, only Toomai has produced similar productivity.

This is ironic, because one of the jobs of a Bureaucrat is to be the superior to administrators

No, the primary job of a b'crat is to handle changing the rights of users. They still carry the duties of an administrators. And people on this Wiki have to stop seeing admins and b'crats as superiors. They're just users with additional buttons to use.

making sure they aren't abusing their position and revoking their power if necessary. I think this is a validated action for Emmett to take.

Point to me where I abused any power. Making unfavorable comments about another user =/= power abuse.

Bringing up your opinion of Emmett also distracts from the point of the argument.

If you read through my response, you would see the point. And it's not an opinion that he doesn't do anything actually useful on the Wiki.

And when Emmett brought this up is irrelevant.

It is fully relevant. Everyone has already moved on, and bringing it up again is just stirring up unnecessary wiki drama. Omega Tyrant 19:18, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

Beyond the tools given, bureaucrats and administrators have a few implied functions. They are not superiors, but they are supposed to be trusted users of the community that have the most experience and wisdom, and they solve disputes when necessary. I did not accuse you of abusing power, and will not accuse you of abusing power, I just brought it up as an example of a bureaucrat's implied function. I was unclear when I said "the point of the argument". I should have said the point of the discussion. The point of the discussion is you, not Emmett. We all know your opinion of Emmett, and while I don't specifically disagree, I feel like this is a discussion to be had elsewhere at another time. If you are accused of something, defend yourself, but attacking the other person brings the discussion places where it should not go, and serves as a distraction from the real purpose of the discussion. And you may think everyone has moved on, but I see at least a few users that still have a problem. I'm not going to outright say whether or not I support Emmett and PoD on this issue, and will refrain from commenting further as they can probably handle this better than I can, but I feel as though these are significant issues with your argument. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} 20:07, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

That's it, they're just trusted, but not from their position, but from their standing on the Wiki. I didn't suddenly became trusted from obtaining adminship, and HavocReaper48 is one of the most trusted on the Wiki, despite not having adminship here. On the other end, Miles is not trusted here by anyone but newb users and the admin worshipers.

I didn't say you accused me of abusing power, but in your statement, you said "making sure they aren't abusing their position and revoking their power if necessary. I think this is a validated action for Emmett to take." Emmett can't really be validated here then if I'm not abusing my power nor even had questionable power use.

And I'm not just attacking Emmett. For the whole point of my response, see what I told PoD.

Anyway, thanks for not being a senseless meatrider. Omega Tyrant 20:26, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

"Quite a bit late to bring this up, don't you think? You been around here for about a week now, and now decide to say something about it? Like Anon said, things already settled down. Saying something about it now is just stirring up unneeded Wiki drama."

Please avoid red herrings. The fact that the comments weren't made yesterday changes absolutely nothing about the fact that you said them and that nobody brought up your atrocious attitude until now. In fact, my actions were approved by Toomai: "I approve of your calling out of OT [...] I thikn[sic] someone had to do it and no one else would have." Furthermore, you know what would avoid this "unnecessary Wiki drama"? You getting a better grasp on your interactions with the rest of the wiki. I shouldn't have to be telling administrators to stop being dicks in the first place.

"You can call the comments unnecessarily rude, uncalled for, whatever, I wasn't disputing that. They weren't the personal attacks as I was being accused of on the RfA." Not sure if you just don't understand English or something? "[I don't want] out of touch dinosaurs that don't do shit like PoD and Emmett [to] have to be relied on." "Out of touch dinosaurs" are adjectives referring to PoD and I; "PoD and Emmett are out of touch dinosaurs that shouldn't have to be relied on" says the exact same thing as the first sentence and is even more easy to see the personal attack in. Don't argue semantics. And furthermore-- just don't be a dick in the first place.

"And I don't see the problem with my comments towards HeidiHedgefox." And herein lies the problem-- you are oblivious to how totally unnecessary your comments were. Rationalize it all you want-- the only actions I would have expected from someone who is supposed to be a mature leader of the community would be to let her leave in peace. What did you accomplish by responding? Absolutely nothing. Feeding the trolls is something I would expect of a user with a temper problem, not an administrator. Not sure why this isn't registering to you.

"Attitude poor or not, I'm actually doing shit on the Wiki."

Again, please avoid red herrings. I don't care about your contributions to the rest of the wiki, it doesn't give you an excuse to treat anyone you like however you want. You say that you're friendly to the rest of the community and pretend like you set aside your feelings, but you pretty fucking obviously don't-- how would I have produced those links of you not being friendly, how would I get comments like "considering how much of a prick he is, you probably have said something to him before" and "He is an intelligent Smasher and editor who has lost his touch with the community.," and why would the only two remotely active bureaucrats think you need an attitude adjustment? Open your eyes.

"What matters is the actual content on the Wiki, something you and the majority of users seem to forget. Readers aren't going to give a damn if an admin is rude to other users, they're going to care about the actual information they're reading on the Wiki."

That's true. And also not at all the point of this conversation. Please avoid red herrings (see below for a continuation).

"An admin with a "poor attitude" that actually does things to improve the Wiki's content and put aside personal grievances to be a part of the community, will do this Wiki much better than admins that just sit on IRC and complain at other users for not fitting their views."

This is where you're wrong. I expect admins to be able to contain themselves, something you apparently either can't or refuse to do; you acting like you have is in no way helping the community. Being a good content editor has no bearing on your capabilities as an admin. Stop confusing the two. Also, as you noted on Toast's RfA, "The Wiki in its current state simply doesn't need much janitorial work"-- you repudiated the very excuse you keep claiming redeems you. Get a grip. Your anecdote about Toomai trying to find you means nothing-- even he says "useful contributor," not "good administrator."

"So yeah, before telling me to develop a better attitude, why not actually be a useful admin for once that actually helps the Wiki? If not, why not just leave for good, like you supposedly claim you were going to so long ago?"

Stop confusing admin and contributor, and stop making red herrings. I also never claimed I was leaving for good-- in my 'farewell', I stated "I want to be able to come and go as I please." I have in no way claimed anything about my quality of administration since leaving; I've just pointed out that yours has been lackluster. Don't pretend otherwise. – Emmett 20:16, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

OT: I like how you skim-read my comment and just went "hurr durr pangan is a dumb, he just laugh at my clever words" instead of actually reading my comment. I asked three questions in that, and you answered none of them. Firstly, do you or do you not look down on the community? If you don't, why did you refer to your dislike of the community? Secondly, if you do look down on the community, how can you possibly even begin to claim with any degree of seriousness that you are in touch with the community? Thirdly, do you have so little insight that you believe that your responses are so splendidly argued that we won't be able to respond to them, or do you realize that you're simply reinforcing our doubts in your ability to remain an admin on this wiki? Penguin of Death 20:56, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

@Emmett

"Please avoid red herrings. The fact that the comments weren't made yesterday changes absolutely nothing about the fact that you said them and that nobody brought up your atrocious attitude until now. In fact, my actions were approved by Toomai: "I approve of your calling out of OT [...] I thikn[sic] someone had to do it and no one else would have." Furthermore, you know what would avoid this "unnecessary Wiki drama"? You getting a better grasp on your interactions with the rest of the wiki. I shouldn't have to be telling administrators to stop being dicks in the first place."

It's not a red herring, the time the comments were made is fully relevant, when since then, I have been putting full work into the Wiki, and have not pressed upon the issue. I haven't gone around starting conflicts with other users I don't approve of, saying negative things about other users in my userpage/edit summaries/talk page posts unprovoked, etc. After Toast's RfA ended, things have been going swimmingly, bringing up issues that are done and done is certainly not productive to this Wiki. And the "stop being a dick" comment is pretty hypocritical coming from you, when just a couple of days ago on IRC, you were one to BNK, who did nothing to provoke it.

"Not sure if you just don't understand English or something? "[I don't want] out of touch dinosaurs that don't do shit like PoD and Emmett [to] have to be relied on." "Out of touch dinosaurs" are adjectives referring to PoD and I; "PoD and Emmett are out of touch dinosaurs that shouldn't have to be relied on" says the exact same thing as the first sentence and is even more easy to see the personal attack in. Don't argue semantics. And furthermore-- just don't be a dick in the first place."

It isn't a matter of semantics, there's a difference between a personal attack and a negative comment that directly refers to another user.

"And herein lies the problem-- you are oblivious to how totally unnecessary your comments were. Rationalize it all you want-- the only actions I would have expected from someone who is supposed to be a mature leader of the community would be to let her leave in peace. What did you accomplish by responding? Absolutely nothing. Feeding the trolls is something I would expect of a user with a temper problem, not an administrator. Not sure why this isn't registering to you."

So informing people what they can do to regain userpage privileges they're leaving over and how to redeem themselves, is now feeding the trolls? Explain to me the logic behind that. And if I were to accept your statement of "a mature leader of the community would let her leave", then we would have lost a pretty good user in Luigi540. Users quitting should be informed on what they can do about the problem they lament over, as well as informed that redemption is possible (as in the case of the detrimental users). Sure just ignoring them doesn't bring up any potential drama, but just letting them all go costs the Wiki potential useful contributions.

"Again, please avoid red herrings. I don't care about your contributions to the rest of the wiki, it doesn't give you an excuse to treat anyone you like however you want. You say that you're friendly to the rest of the community and pretend like you set aside your feelings, but you pretty fucking obviously don't-- how would I have produced those links of you not being friendly, how would I get comments like "considering how much of a prick he is, you probably have said something to him before" and "He is an intelligent Smasher and editor who has lost his touch with the community.," and why would the only two remotely active bureaucrats think you need an attitude adjustment? Open your eyes."

It's not a red herring, as when my so called "attitude problem" hasn't gotten in the way of my actually contributing and administrating, it's a pretty strong indication that problem is not as big as you are making it out to be.

How exactly do I treat people the way I want, anymore so than you or any other user? All your links are me making negative comments towards other users (so holding negative opinions of others is now being a prick that treats others how they want?)), and me telling a quitting user what they should do if they care that much about what they're quitting over (in an aggressive tone, yes, but there was no outright attacks or harassment going on or anything of the sort, despite the great potential for it, which I would of done if I were to "treat her the way I wanted"). And for putting aside my feelings to be friendly, just look through my contributions, and see my IRC interaction with other users. You have been on IRC several times with me there, and if you payed attention, you would see me not being an ass to users there, responding to them and interacting with them, and brawling them even though their skill level is far below mine. Even with Toast I'm friendly with, despite how heavy the argument got in his RfA. And if you want a link, I don't think there's a better example than this online tournament I hosted after Toast's RfA, which involved several Wiki users from here (including Toast). I wasn't an ass to them in the comments there, and I was certainly being friendly with them during the tournament and after (if you won't take my word for it, consider that they would not have participated when the host is being a prick to them, and that unlike here, I would have no restraint from my admin duties there). Maybe instead of accusing me of just saying I'm friendly, don't just look at isolated incidents that support your views, and ask the many users here how I actually am towards them the majority of the time?

For another link that should support I'm not a prick that's an asshole to everyone here all the time, you can look at my facebook friend list. There, you can find RD, HavocReaper, Brian, Dots, Toast, and AirConditoner, with the last two being after the Toast's RfA. I can't really be an ass all the time to everyone that no one likes when people here friend me on there, especially in the case of the latter four who sent the request themselves.

So before claiming I'm out of touch, how about you get in touch with the community yourself? I'm admittedly not the nicest person anymore, but I'm certainly not a constant prick that never treats others with friendliness and respect.

"This is where you're wrong. I expect admins to be able to contain themselves, something you apparently either can't or refuse to do; you acting like you have is in no way helping the community. Being a good content editor has no bearing on your capabilities as an admin. Stop confusing the two. Also, as you noted on Toast's RfA, "The Wiki in its current state simply doesn't need much janitorial work"-- you repudiated the very excuse you keep claiming redeems you. Get a grip. Your anecdote about Toomai trying to find you means nothing-- even he says "useful contributor," not "good administrator." "

How you improve the content and capabilities as an admin are related. Again, I'll bring up the tagged smasher articles. Someone who isn't very good at their ability to contribute to the content and admin capabilities, would have just deleted them all without making sure they were not notable. Case in point, Miles deleting Boss' article, the smasher who is widely considered to be the best Luigi and Mario player. Such an admin would have also just deleted everything in the other tagged for deletion categories, rather than making sure the tagged content actually merited deletion (and in the process, lose legit information). Such cases where we could of lost legit information if a typical janitorial admin with mediocre contribution/adminship capabilities was cleaning the tagged articles out, include this, this, and this (the last case being an egregious example, as it was a tagged seemingly useless redirect).

For Toomai trying to find me, it does indeed mean something, when I'm the one admin who gets seek out when I disappear, whereas no one cares when you and other admins disappear. If I was the prick no one likes, people would have been glad I left, rather than actually seek me outside the Wiki to question me about my return.

"Stop confusing admin and contributor, and stop making red herrings. I also never claimed I was leaving for good-- in my 'farewell', I stated "I want to be able to come and go as I please.""

Exactly why do you stick around then, when you yourself have lost interest in the games this Wiki covers, and have even claimed that you dislike the community here?

"I've just pointed out that yours has been lackluster. Don't pretend otherwise."

Give actual examples of questionable use of my admin powers before claiming I've been lackluster. You don't have to be ultra nice and hold the community in high esteem to be a constructive admin. Omega Tyrant 03:23, 25 August 2012 (EDT)

@PoD

"I like how you skim-read my comment and just went "hurr durr pangan is a dumb, he just laugh at my clever words" instead of actually reading my comment."

Why should I give you a full response to what you want when you did this very thing?

"Firstly, do you or do you not look down on the community? If you don't, why did you refer to your dislike of the community?"

It's already known I dislike the community, and believe it's needs some massive improvement. Nonetheless, when that dislike is put aside, it's irrelevant.

"Secondly, if you do look down on the community, how can you possibly even begin to claim with any degree of seriousness that you are in touch with the community?"

So suddenly it's impossible to dislike the community while being an touch with it? This attitude of that you have to be all super happy with the community is sickening. See my responses towards Emmett about this issue, as well as actually ask users about my interaction with them, and observe my interaction with them (rather than just cherry picking instances that support your views).

"Thirdly, do you have so little insight that you believe that your responses are so splendidly argued that we won't be able to respond to them, or do you realize that you're simply reinforcing our doubts in your ability to remain an admin on this wiki?"

So to actually be a good admin, I must always love the community and never say anything negative about it, and I must never publicly say anything negative about another user? So my attitude towards the community and opinions of various users determine my worth as an admin, rather than what I actually do with my admin powers? Omega Tyrant 03:23, 25 August 2012 (EDT)

Let's forget the non-recent past; this was started with "attitude as of late". I'm going to look through OT's last 150 contributions (from now to about the 12th of August) and generate my opinion on his attitude from some of the more substantial talk/forum posts in there.

Smasher talk:Geo: Nothing wrong here.
Forum talk:Smash Arena: A bit blunt. User in question did not read the rules but is a newer user, so whether bluntness is acceptable is a bit iffy to me. I'll let it pass.
Forum talk:Suggestions: Also a bit blunt, but fine.
Talk:List of national tournaments: No problem.
User talk:Dots: Telling a user what he did wrong without being rude about it.
Forum:Improvements to the "In competitive play" section of character articles: OT's first response to PSIWolf of "no matter how much you want to be ignorant about it" was uncalled for. Yes it needed to be said that PSIWolf was not correct, but the way it was said implied that PSIWolf has repeatedly been told this in the past and defied it every time, which I don't recall. The next response repeated the ignorant phrasing and linked to the tier treatise, which was slightly more justified as PSIWolf didn't really produce any good arguments with his first response. The rest of that back-and-forth is more misinterpretation than bad attitude. The rest of OT's comments on the page was fine.
SmashWiki talk:Deletion policy: Okay.

There isn't actually much here that I would constitute an "attitude problem", which I was actually a bit surprised about, as for the past few days I had been thinking of OT as that geezer that whacks everything newfangled with a cane and turns all the Python back into COBOL. I don't know how I got into that mindset since apparently anything of that sort has passed weeks ago. I do note, however, that while I no longer think OT needs an attitude adjustment as of now, it was still a good idea to bring this up because it publicizes that people didn't like what happened then, so we can try to avoid it in the future.

Some knee-jerk responses to other points, mostly cherry-picked from the top of the section because that's before things got messed up:

The HeidiHedgefox thing certaintly could have been handled better. OT's comments 1, 3A, and 4 in the "Moved" section of her talkpage were all straight-up unnecessary, 4 especially so. (Of course I say this without knowing whatever happened elsewhere.)
For the Toast RfA, OT's initial oppose was perfectly fine. Regardless of whether the edit summaries brought into the discussion were a PA or not, they never needed to be made. What happened afterwards is both sides' fault.
Is a leader that people like and does little work better than a leader that does good work and hates everyone? (Rhetorical question, don't answer this unless you're trying for some Nobel prize.)
If someone has to claim their attitude is irrelevant, then it's relevant. (Opinion. Don't waste your time responding to this. (Or any of this, really. I want this to end so we can shut up and move on.))
Shut up about me okay? Toomai Glittershine The Celeritous 10:16, 25 August 2012 (EDT)

smasher pages

Actually I discussed it with several people on IRC. Those redirects accomplish nothing, are linked from nowhere and don't seem to even be their primary names-- indeed, their smasher pages themselves don't even mention the nicknames. But who thinks asking admins about their actions is a good idea, right? – Emmett 03:59, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

"Several on the IRC" doesn't really matter when only three users here actually know a damn thing about the competitive scene. Read the page I linked to, and you'll see where the redirect nicknames come from. Omega Tyrant 05:06, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

Though you apparently respect no one but yourself, we were in fact aware of that article. It's the only reference to those names in the entire wiki; t0mmy's AiB profile makes no reference to his alternate name and in fact specifies "it's t0mmy" (t1mmy's doesn't seem to want to load); t1mmy's youtube channel consistently refers to them as t1mmy and t0mmy, not ! and ?; and indeed, various other sites refer to them as t1mmy and t0mmy. Please provide links to support your argument; you apparently value doing so, but don't seem to actually follow through on it yourself very often. – Emmett 20:22, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

Not valuing what others say for something outside their area of expertise isn't a matter of respect, it's knowing what is actually valuable insight. People shouldn't be asking me about insight for Yoshi's metagame in SSB64, and disregarding something I say about that subject isn't a matter of disrespecting me, but knowing my insight on it is not valuable.

For your links, for the "it's t0mmy" thing, he's specifying that it's not "tommy", as the twins make it a thing to use the binary numbers in their names, something you would know if you were actually a part of the Smash community. For Youtube, if you actually watched the videos, you would see the tags they use, which are indeed always "!" and "?" in their Melee videos. If you want links, here you go. While t1mmy and t0mmy are indeed their actual smasher names, "!" and "?" are legitimate nicknames the twins used, thus appropriate for a redirect. Omega Tyrant 01:16, 25 August 2012 (EDT)