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Forum:Tier list debate 2020: Part 1: Difference between revisions
→Option 1: Hands-off
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#'''Support''': I don't think any one widely accepted tier list source exists, and one probably can't be made. While Option 3 is good, I don't think it could be implemented easily in an unbiased way. Many subjective opinions could arise, like "whose opinion should count" and "should outdated tier lists be kept, and how outdated." In addition, people rank in a variety of ways that could be hard to aggregate: some people rank with S/A/B/C/D, some use + or - with letters, some just say top/high/mid/low/bottom, and some don't rank a lot of characters they don't know about, especially Mii Fighters. It sounds good on paper but I don't think it will work to a degree that will be agreed upon by most players as a factual list. Tier lists are an opinionated matter that can vary wildly from person to person and are ever-changing. Even some of the official tier lists are immediately outdated or unpopular, like the Smash 4 tier lists. I think the best course of action for an unbiased article is to not list tier lists at all. Exact placements can be removed from characters' pages, but they can certainly be explained that most people in the community agree they are top/high/mid/low or even a specific placement, like best/Top 5/Top10/Bottom 10/Bottom 5/worst. The Backroom tier lists can be removed from the "Tier list" article, but we should still link to the historical tier lists. The matchup charts should be removed, they are even more outdated and can making them would be difficult post-Brawl. Again, we can list commonly agreed upon matchup spreads and positive/even/negative matchups, and list the historical matchup charts on their pages. --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 18:49, February 7, 2020 (EST) | #'''Support''': I don't think any one widely accepted tier list source exists, and one probably can't be made. While Option 3 is good, I don't think it could be implemented easily in an unbiased way. Many subjective opinions could arise, like "whose opinion should count" and "should outdated tier lists be kept, and how outdated." In addition, people rank in a variety of ways that could be hard to aggregate: some people rank with S/A/B/C/D, some use + or - with letters, some just say top/high/mid/low/bottom, and some don't rank a lot of characters they don't know about, especially Mii Fighters. It sounds good on paper but I don't think it will work to a degree that will be agreed upon by most players as a factual list. Tier lists are an opinionated matter that can vary wildly from person to person and are ever-changing. Even some of the official tier lists are immediately outdated or unpopular, like the Smash 4 tier lists. I think the best course of action for an unbiased article is to not list tier lists at all. Exact placements can be removed from characters' pages, but they can certainly be explained that most people in the community agree they are top/high/mid/low or even a specific placement, like best/Top 5/Top10/Bottom 10/Bottom 5/worst. The Backroom tier lists can be removed from the "Tier list" article, but we should still link to the historical tier lists. The matchup charts should be removed, they are even more outdated and can making them would be difficult post-Brawl. Again, we can list commonly agreed upon matchup spreads and positive/even/negative matchups, and list the historical matchup charts on their pages. --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 18:49, February 7, 2020 (EST) | ||
#'''Support''': We talk about not using subjective terms, such as best, worst, and the like. Tier Lists are the epitome of subjective. <span style="font-family: SimHei;color: orange;background-color: green;">[[User:LegendEH|LegendEH Is Very]] [[User talk:LegendEH|Handsome]]~</span> 10:52, February 14, 2020 (EST) | #'''Support''': We talk about not using subjective terms, such as best, worst, and the like. Tier Lists are the epitome of subjective. <span style="font-family: SimHei;color: orange;background-color: green;">[[User:LegendEH|LegendEH Is Very]] [[User talk:LegendEH|Handsome]]~</span> 10:52, February 14, 2020 (EST) | ||
#'''Support''': Definitely keep the existing tier lists and matchup charts for historical purposes; no sense in deleting them. But yeah... it's unfortunate, but I don't see any way to get around this. I don't think there's any comparable "official" source to make Option 2 workable. As for Option 3... hoo boy. Not only do you need some way of determining which tier lists to include, you also need some way of aggregating them! And like, uh... Arrow's Theorem, anyone? (At least we don't have to worry about the equivalent of strategic voting here. :P ) Not that you can't come up with a way (I know average placement is often used), but no way anyone comes up with will be, like, the one correct natural way, so... yeah. Probably just best to leave this to others... [[User:Sniffnoy|Sniffnoy]] ([[User talk:Sniffnoy|talk]]) 03:28, February 21, 2020 (EST) | |||
===Option 2: New source=== | ===Option 2: New source=== | ||