Talk:Hookshot/Archive 1

We have 2 pics of clawshot; could we get one of hookshot for visual comparison? annoying1359 02:33, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that this page is no longer a stub, I checked the first 10 edits in history and I haven't even found when they inserted the stub marker. Feel free to remove or leave it, I'm just saying I'm against this page's stubbiness. --MLaRF, 18:34 Greenwitch mean, 16 January, 2009.

How about a name change to Hook/Clawshot? Sounds much better than the two being seperate.--O² 20:38, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

With a slash? That's a subpage. Miles (talk) 20:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

What about a dash? Naw, that wouldn't work. I'm just spitting ideas.--Oxico^{I hear voices crying}_{I see heroes dying} 17:35, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Merge?

Keep separate - There is enough notability here. BNK ^[E|T|C] 21:29, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Don't merge - The hookshot and clawshot both have special properties and for this reason I believe they should be treated in a similar manner to special moves. Furthermore, the amount of writing required to cover the details of their properties is enough to warrant its own article. 118.243.228.102 05:07, August 12, 2010 (UTC) <-- Mako Shark (talk) 05:09, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

What "details"? They're only tethers. They can easily be described in one or two sentences. Who cares if they have special move like properties, so do Ness' Side smash and Snake's smashes or taunts, but they don't have articles for one reason: They have not caused much disscussion in the community. Falcon's down and forward aerials have articles because they have: the Knee is perhaps Falcon's most useful move, and the Nipple Spike is very notable in that it wasn't disscovered until years after Melee was released, unlike most spikes. This article has no such notability, and thus should be merged. Anon 05:15, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

What proof is there that Link's z-air and tether climb haven't generated that much discussion? Mako Shark (talk) 05:19, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Because if they did, then it would be mentioned on the article? Anon 05:24, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

That's not true at all. Just because something's not mentioned in a Smash wiki article doesn't automatically make it untrue. Regardless, Link's tether grab is a damaging z-air and tether recovery. As it stands, these z-airs get articles. Mako Shark (talk) 05:27, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Keep For the same reason that CHawk posted in his post for why the Grapple Beam should have an article. Also, the information in this article is all relevant and there's no need to cut relevant and necessary information to merge it. Also Anon, actually research before making the claim that the hookshot/clawshot has not generated discussion. Omega Tyrant 05:30, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

If it has, can you please link to a smashboards thread about it? Mr. Anon teh awsome 05:47, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Btw if it has indeed generated nearly as much disscussion as the Knee, and you can show this, I will change my vote to Keep. Sir Anon the great 05:47, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't need to have had as much discussion as the knee. It's a damaging z-air that has extra properties, which are used in a different manner to normal grabs, therefore it warrants its own article. Mako Shark (talk) 05:51, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Again, what extra properties? If you're talking about the tether, that means nothing. I'm not going to repeat myself again, but Ness' side smash has reflector properties, but it doesn't have an article. Snake has like 5 non special move projectiles, but none of those moves have articles. Luigi's taunt is a spike, but it doesn't have an article. Anon 05:53, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Finally, plugging in the dictionary definition "worthy of attention or notice". Since nobody has given examples of it being given great attention, I could stop here, but I'll let people give comments. Sir Anon the great 06:00, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

I'll ask you this Anon. Could you write an article on those moves that is a large and detailed as this one, while keeping all of the information relevant? Simply put, you would not be able to with those moves. Also, Snake only has one non special projectile (u-smash). You shouldn't be debating this stuff if you don't know your facts. Omega Tyrant 06:02, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

While the article is long, most of the information is on stuff like individual hitboxes and animations, repeated for all three Links. As for Snake, his down smash is also a projectile, as are his taunts (I counted the taunts as seperate since they require different button inputs for each). Please don't immediately assume that I know nothing of what I'm talking about. About the other moves, I'm not sure if I could write as much as this article, as I have no knowledge of individual hitboxes. The only valid reason I see for keeping this is because it is a move shared by three characters, but that still means that grapple beam and rope snake need to go. Sir Anon the great 06:09, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

The d-smash is not a projectile. The definition of a projectile, "any object propelled through space by the application of a force". That does not apply to Snake's d-smash. Now I'll challenge you, since you're complaining about details, go through this article and tell me what information you believe is irrelevant and/or unnecessary. As I see it, the information in this article is full of relevant and necessary details. The information here is also more fitting in its own article than on Link's page. Omega Tyrant 06:24, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

No Merge. Basically the same as we did with Samus. These are unique moves, with techniques specific to them. We don't want to make the Link page(s) any longer, and this is the best way to maintain the information. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 15:27, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
Keep. Unique. Notable. And what would we gain from merging this?--MegaTron1XD 15:30, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Changing my mind about this article. It's a move shared by three characters, exists in all the games, and is pretty detailed. However, I keep my stance about Rope Snake and Grapple Beam. Anon 17:24, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, I have also changed my mind about the other two. However, I am going to create an article about Ness' Side smash, due to it's unique abilities. Mr. Anon teh awsome 00:39, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

This is a different discussion, guys

Seeing as the tag is still present on the page, I'll add another opinion. Keep them as one article, as they're basically the same thing, except one looks a little different, has a different name, and an extra hitbox on the end. If the two were split, Gale Boomerang would need its own article, and if the two were separate articles, they would be fairly short in length, whereas we might as well have an impressive bulky article on both. Toast ltimatum 10:04, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

Separate If there are enough differing properties to get them split up, then I say go for it. --RoyboyX Talk 16:46, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

Split Keep Per RoyboyX. Air Conditioner Now with ROLLBACK! 17:18, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

Keep into one article A unique page that has all the info, and they are basically similar in almost every way. Dots The Laser 17:28, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

Keep. In the Zelda series, these items are functionally similar. In the Smash series, they are identical in function. No point splitting this. Mr. Anontalk 18:41, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

Bump. Anyone else? --RoyboyX Talk 19:05, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Keep Why split it when they act exactly the same? Let Zelda Wiki have separate articles for them. Keep them merged here.--Starman125 (talk) 19:16, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Keep Now that I've done a better analysis of the article. If it's got one little similarity that's not a reason to split. --RoyboyX Talk 19:18, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Hold on here!

These original thread, started by me, was to propose a merge with the Link articles, not whether to split Hookshot and Clawshot into different articles. As you can see in the other grab article talk pages, this was settled. If you want to start a new discussion, keep in a separate thread. Mr. Anontalk 18:44, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

I notice you spotted that this discussion is over two years old. Good job. :P Dots The Laser 18:46, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

The point is it isn't the same discussion. Mr. Anontalk 18:50, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

Regarding the move

If anything, it would be changed to Hookshot, Toon Link still uses that. It's just a somewhat risky maneuver. There's clearly debate as of which name we would change to, and in SSB4, it should in theory become the "Clawshots", if it goes by Skyward Sword standards. One option could just be to change to Grab air (Link), or Zair (Link), if we're to use the dominant term over the official and non-controller-biased name. I have no one opinion yet, do discuss. Toast ltimatum 16:26, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

Don't use rollovers in talk page discussions. Comment has been edited to delete it. Toomai Glittershine The Orchestral 16:49, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

Hookshot would probably be better, since it's used in the most games. But I don't think we should change it to Zair or Grab Air, because there isn't any problem with using Clawshot or Hookshot. Sakurai even called it the Clawshot himself. So Hookshot/Clawshot could be considered official. Awesome Cardinal 2000 16:45, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

"Grabs of Link"? --RoyboyX Talk 17:07, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

That is terrible. It's not official or frequently used by the community, and there are better titles that clearly explain the content of the article, like Hookshot, or Clawshot. Awesome Cardinal 2000 17:10, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

Silly me, only considering the Grab Air. Shows how much I spam it. Never mind Zair/Grab Air, the alternative name would be Grab (Link). Indeed, "Grabs of Link" sounds poor. Toast ltimatum 17:30, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

Yeah, it's horrible, but until Toast's suggestion it was the only one that made sense. --RoyboyX Talk 17:48, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

We could do what we did with the Start/Pause Button Page and use DISPLAYTITLE to call it Hookshot/Clawshot. DoctorPain99 19:06, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

I think that we should do something like Boomerang with Gale Boomerang as a section. Have Hookshot as the title and Clawshot as a subsection. Since the Hookshot is used in more games, I think that would be a more appropriate title, like Boomerang. Awesome Cardinal 2000 19:51, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

Have you considered something in the line of "Tether (Link)", or doesn't it correspond well enough? - Ceci n’est pas un Smiddle. 03:47, 21 April 2013 (EDT)

Bump. I support Grab (Link) maybe with DP's idea having Displaytitle say "Hookshot/Clawshot". --RoyboyX Talk 19:49, 28 April 2013 (EDT)

Personally, I think it might be better to have all the zairs on the Zair page, but I agree that Hookshot is the best name for this. The Clawshot is more of a variation of the hook shot that (as of Brawl) only appeared in a single game, and functions in Brawl almost identically to the hookshot of Melee's link. Note that this might be subject to change in the next Smash Bros, where Skyward Sword's dual clawshots may influence the character of Link. Mr. Anontalk 14:56, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

And bump. Exactly what does everyone want to call this? --RoyboyX Talk 19:53, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

A redirect. Toomai Glittershine The Breegull 22:21, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

I, and many users in a section above, disagree with that idea. DoctorPain99 00:45, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

And bump, yet again. --RoyboyX Talk 10:56, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

As I asked before, have we considered something in the line of "Tether (Link)", or doesn't it correspond well enough? - Ceci n’est pas un Smiddle. 14:00, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

Grab (Link) is the superior name to Tether (Link). Toast ltimatum 12:38, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

Hookshot or Clawshot is a much better name than Tether (Link), because it provides a clear name for the article, and what it is. Also, since Link's Boomerang was changed to Gale Boomerang for Twilight Princess, would you want to call that page "Neutral Special/Side Special (Link)"? Personally, I support Hookshot the most. Also, why would you want to have a DISPLAYTITLE when you could just move the page to that title instead? Awesome Cardinal 2000 11:57, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

Delete, redirect to "Grab air", do same for similar pages That is my opinion. Toomai Glittershine The Steppin' 12:33, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

Why do you want to delete it? There was a discussion about merging earlier on this talk page too, and the consensus was to keep it. Awesome Cardinal 2000 13:30, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

You use DISPLAYTITLE because having a forward slash, / , in the title makes the page a subpage. In other words, if you name the page "Hookshot/Clawshot", the page becomes a subpage of the page "Hookshot". To get around this limitation of MediaWiki, you would name something else, such as its current name, and use DISPLAYTITLE to have the title appear to be "Hookshot/Clawshot" without the page being a subpage. DoctorPain99 13:54, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

How is that an improvement over "Hookshot and Clawshot"? Awesome Cardinal 2000 15:28, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

Alright, we need some organization here. Some say rename Grab (Link), others say rename Hookshot or Clawshot and Toomai wants to kill it. Which is the best idea? --RoyboyX Talk 14:07, 18 May 2013 (EDT)

Grab (Link)

1. I'll support this very slightly, though honestly I'd prefer to wait until we see what SSB4 Link is using. Until then, however, this would be acceptable. Miles (talk) 14:45, 18 May 2013 (EDT)
2. Voting here looks to be futile, but I'm doing it regardless. Toast ltimatum 17:51, 20 May 2013 (EDT)

Hookshot or Clawshot (specify which)

1. Hookshot Clawshot I strongly oppose naming the article "Grab (Link)". Since Boomerang is changed to Gale Boomerang in Brawl, would you guys want to name Boomerang into "Neutral Special/Side Special (Link)"? Awesome Cardinal 2000 15:11, 18 May 2013 (EDT)
2. Hookshot I agree with Ac2k that a deviation in one iteration does not warrant a major renaming scheme, and certainly not a new article. My reasons are slightly elaborated above. Mr. Anontalk 22:28, 19 May 2013 (EDT)
3. Hookshot After reflection, I think that b/c Hookshot is more used it should be the name. Like some spy character being named after their once-used alias (i.e. Neal Caffrey would instead be James Maine). Or, what Anon said. --RoyboyX Talk 22:52, 19 May 2013 (EDT)
4. Hookshot Link has used the Hookshot more than the Clawshot (Young and Toon Link included), so this is my vote.--Starman125 (talk) 23:58, 19 May 2013 (EDT)
5. Hookshot: Per above. DoctorPain99 01:03, 20 May 2013 (EDT)
6. Hookshot Dots The Doctor 09:15, 20 May 2013 (EDT)
7. Hookshot Per Starban. Scr7(talk · contribs) 07:56, 21 September 2013 (EDT)

Delete/merge

1. Delete, redirect Can be reduced to a single paragraph on the grab air page. Same with Grapple Beam and Rope Snake. Toomai Glittershine The Researcher 00:00, 20 May 2013 (EDT)

Leave as is

1. No action. We can afford to wait until SSB4 and make a judgment then. This page title is not a problem at the moment. Miles (talk) 03:54, 20 May 2013 (EDT)
2. No action Well, now Link is confirmed to have the Clawshot in SSB4, but it's highly likely the Hookshot will still be used by Toon Link. I honestly think we should just leave it, the name may not sound good, but really, it's just the title of the article. Scr7(talk · contribs) 11:41, 5 October 2013 (EDT)
3. No action Meh, we have two games where it is a Hookshot and two games where it is a Clawshot. As long as it is able to cover both information about them, I'm fine with the rather awkward title. Dots The 90's 13:22, 5 October 2013 (EDT)
4. No action We know the Clawshot is used in two games and the Hookshot is used in two games. We can merely keep this article's name and DISPLAYTITLE Hookshot/Clawshot. RoyboyX Talk 19:58, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

Comments

Toomai: The Hookshot and Clawshot page (and the rest of the zairs) contains information about how it is used by skilled players and how it affects the Links' metagame, and is relevant and probably could not be explained in one paragraph.

Miles: Since the release of SSB4 is going to be at least a year away, why not move it to Hookshot now? And if this title is not a problem at the moment, then why have I, and other people, complained about it and left our thoughts on this page? Awesome Cardinal 2000 17:04, 20 May 2013 (EDT)

And of course a redirect prevents me from renaming this meself. Admins? RoyboyX Talk 08:25, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

I'm probably late, but the example brought up with the Boomerang is not relevant, as "Boomerang" encompasses "Gale Boomerang". The problem here is that neither of Hookshot and Clawshot include the other, if I've understood correctly. - Ceci n’est pas un Smiddle. 05:10, 24 May 2013 (EDT)

Maybe not, but they're virtually the same item, aren't they? RoyboyX Talk 10:54, 25 May 2013 (EDT)

So in the vote above, it appears Hookshot had the most votes. Would anyone else like to add their thoughts? Awesome Cardinal 2000 07:51, 21 September 2013 (EDT)

Seems I misread. In a few days we need to rename this Hookshot. RoyboyX Talk 09:36, 21 September 2013 (EDT)

Bump. RoyboyX Talk 22:30, 24 September 2013 (EDT)

imo, it makes sense to have it be called "hookshot". link in 64, as well as y.link and link in melee and toonlink in brawl ALL use a hookshot. clawshot should be a subsection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJLO (talk • contribs) 21:45, 25 September 2013‎

Bump. Scr7(talk · contribs) 03:45, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

While watching the reveal of Sonic, I saw that Link uses the Clawshot in SSB4. How does this affect things? Toast ltimatum 12:01, 1 October 2013 (EDT)

I'm guessing Toon Link will use the Hookshot, but it looks like Smash will be sticking mostly with Clawshot, and it appears more prominent now, so I will propose renaming to Clawshot instead. Awesome Cardinal 2000 16:44, 1 October 2013 (EDT)

Well great. Now this gets even more convoluted. RoyboyX Talk 11:07, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

@People saying "No action": Compare this to naming an article title as "Boomerang and Gale Boomerang". Awesome Cardinal 2000 13:16, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

Except those two names are close enough for the article to just be called "Boomerang". "Hookshot" and "Clawshot" clearly aren't. Scr7(talk · contribs) 13:26, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

Hookshot and Clawshot are just as similar. They both end in "shot" and the first part is changed based on the design of the game it originates from. Awesome Cardinal 2000 19:48, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

Oh come on, Gale Boomerang is just Boomerang with an extra four letter word on the front. Scr7(talk · contribs) 03:53, 6 October 2013 (EDT)

@RoyboyX: How is Hookshot/Clawshot an improvement over the current title? And the title should be based on prominence in the series, not on how many games it has been in. Clawshot looks to be the more prominent version. Awesome Cardinal 2000 21:14, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

@Everyone: The Hookshot is used in at least three games, and possibly a fourth, while Clawshot is used in two. Awesome Cardinal 2000 21:17, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

Can you name those non-SSB games? RoyboyX Talk 00:09, 6 October 2013 (EDT)

Hookshot is used by Link in Smash 64 and Melee, and by Toon Link in Brawl and Smash 4. Link uses the Clawshot in Brawl and smash 4. Awesome Cardinal 2000 08:54, 6 October 2013 (EDT)

Exactly how is that more prominent? By the way you've worded it it sounds like Hookshot is the more prominent.

Well Link has switched to the Clawshot now, and he's the more prominent Link in the series; the more popular Link and the developers probably are more interested in Link, since people are complaining about how there are two Links and Toon Link is disliked a lot in the community. Awesome Cardinal 2000 13:42, 6 October 2013 (EDT)