User talk:Smashbrosfan99

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Rtzxy Reflect! 11:31, 22 November 2014 (EST)

This

Had a busy day yesterday, so pardon the late response.

1. While PAL specifically refers to regions covered by the phase alternating line, it is often used to just refer to European regions (and also Australia, because Queen's English).
2. Duck Hunt is called "Duck Hunt Duo" specifically in Europe.
3. The Switch's region-free nature does not change the fact that you can change the region your Switch is "located" in, affecting other things (can't remember off the top of my head). If you change it to Europe, it switches to British English.

I won't call you wrong, but I also won't say that the wording is 100% right either. Aidan, the Springing Rurouni 11:07, April 23, 2019 (EDT)

Sure, but even still, NTSC and PAL is inaccurate in today's day and age, mainly because Nintendo consoles from the Wii U onwards (and even the portable consoles) never really rely on analog connections at all. All they have is HDMI connections, which is digital. In that case, stating NTSC and PAL for those sorts of versions is just plain wrong, inaccurate and outdated.

P.S. I also use the Mario Wiki under the username "Owencrazyboy9", and on that wiki, I made a proposal to determine what to use to refer to regional differences and the final result was that we use NTSC and PAL for the NES, SNES, N64, GCN and Wii consoles, but we go with the American and British terminology for everything else. – Smashbrosfan99 (talk) 15:50, April 23, 2019 (EDT)

It being inaccurate doesn't change the fact that it's still a shorthand term for those two different areas of the world - NTSC for the Americas, and PAL for European countries and Australia (and also Middle Eastern/South Asian countries because I don't like leaving people out and I forgot to mention that earlier). Also, we're not MarioWiki; while there is a cross between the two (as is to be expected of wikis under the same association), SmashWiki follows its own rules, and MarioWiki follows its own rules. Aidan, the Rurouni 17:48, April 23, 2019 (EDT)

Already knew about these wikis having their own roundabout ways of handling rules. I'm still not convinced about your counterpoints at all. NTSC and PAL are inaccurate in today's day-and-age and doesn't make sense to use when there could be multiple NTSC versions of games or multiple PAL versions of games when region-locking comes into play (e.g. literally every Japanese and American release ever before region-free consoles and the European and Australian releases of Super Smash Bros. on the Nintendo 64). Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, in this case, is region-free, meaning that the usage of NTSC and PAL already falls even flatter on its face than it initially did because of the Switch's usage of HDMI connectivity and portability. – Smashbrosfan99 (talk) 22:51, April 23, 2019 (EDT)

See, but with stuff like this, you're making things way too specific when they aren't. "British English" != "all European localizations". Aidan, the Rurouni 02:28, April 27, 2019 (EDT)

PAL region

The PAL region is the group of markets that traditionally used PAL technology. It does not specify anything about the hardware currently used in those markets. This is why it is always incorrect to compare the PAL region to NTSC, and instead it should be compared to North America (or "The Americas"), Japan, etc.

The term "PAL region" is useful because it includes Europe as well as Australia and New Zealand, which usually get products with the same script. --SnorlaxMonster 22:19, April 27, 2019 (EDT)

I fail to see how that is currently useful in today's day and age. Besides, the American and British versions of almost all of the Smash Bros. games are usually almost exactly identical, with exceptions *cough*cough* Smash 3DS / Wii U *cough*cough*. The Switch itself being region-free has the whole usage of NTSC and PAL for the Switch fall even flatter on its face. – Smashbrosfan99 (talk) 23:29, April 27, 2019 (EDT)

Ultimate does have differences in the script, the most prominent being the name of Duck Hunt/Duck Hunt Duo, but also applying to minor things such as Spirit Board events. That's why it's necessary to make the distinction.

The PAL region is entirely distinct from whether or not the game itself uses a PAL encoding. It would be incorrect to use PAL or NTSC to refer to the different versions of Ultimate. But it is also incorrect to refer to the PAL region version as the "British English" version because this is the version used in Australia and New Zealand as well. --SnorlaxMonster 23:44, April 27, 2019 (EDT)

Oh, really? I beg to differ. As an example outside of Nintendo and Smash Bros., some of the Baby Einstein™ UK DVDs I own (yes, I collect those kinds of DVDs) have the option to watch in either British or American English. The official terminology used on those discs are UK English and US English. And yes, the Australian DVDs for those movies are exactly the same as the British ones (and the French, Dutch and Italian ones). Again, your counterpoints are not valid in the slightest. The distinction can be easily made with just the American English or British English terminology in video games, YouTube videos or even website pages (like the ones that describe the Spirit Board events as anyone from any place can view those ones), even if the Australian/New Zealand region setting on the Switch has the same British English version as Europe, instead of defunct analog TV standards (except for DVDs). – Smashbrosfan99 (talk) 23:59, April 27, 2019 (EDT)

Yes, and it's true that you can even (rarely) find NTSC DVDs released in the UK or Australia, but that makes these NTSC-coded DVDs released in the PAL region. The PAL region is simply a group of markets that is entirely unrelated to the technology used for any given release. The term "PAL region" is widely used, regardless of the state of PAL and NTSC technology.

As for your DVD example, you have a case where there are two different voice tracks: the US English voice track and the UK English voice track. In Australia, the UK English voice track is used, but it's still the UK English voice track.

If you want to by analogy do the same for Super Smash Bros., you could call the languages American English and Commonwealth English. According to the language page, all versions of the game include the same language options, but which version of the language you get when you choose it on the language select screen depends on the location you have set your system to. So the version of the game sold in North America still contains the Commonwealth English language, but you have to set your Switch system itself to the appropriate country to get that to be the language used. In the particular case of differing terminology between the two English languages in Ultimate, I agree that it would be better to draw a distinction between the languages rather than markets that the games are sold in, since the markets the games are sold in don't matter.

However, sometimes it is necessary to draw a distinction between the market a particular game is sold in, in which case the term PAL region is necessary, regardless of whether the game uses NTSC or PAL encoding. A good example of this would be on the language page to explain which countries give American English and which give Commonwealth English. There are also likely cases involving for Nintendo 3DS and for Wii U that it is necessary. --SnorlaxMonster 00:30, April 28, 2019 (EDT)

Having checked the Nintendo Switch's region settings, there are only five regions, rather than having specific countries like for the Nintendo 3DS. There isn't actually a need to use the term "PAL region" with respect to Ultimate on the language page, since it makes more sense to just name the specific regions that the Switch uses. --SnorlaxMonster 00:43, April 28, 2019 (EDT)

Yeah, that's true. Especially since mentioning PAL region is just wrong when the copy of the game in Europe and/or Australia contain not only a British English selection, but also French, German (and sometimes Italian and Spanish), but the description we give is only from the British English version. – Smashbrosfan99 (talk) 11:47, April 28, 2019 (EDT)

Stop removing "PAL" and replacing it with wordier alternatives. It is the way we've decided to differentiate regions across the wiki and is very much valid for older games, so for consistency we keep it for newer games. If you want to debate this, you should raise a general proposal, not make individual unstandardizing edits. Toomai Glittershine Da Bess 00:01, May 4, 2019 (EDT)

Well, it clearly has to change. Thanks to the magic that is "advancements of technology," not many people play these games on analog televisions anymore. And your argument of "using that terminology for newer games" just doesn't work. At all. Using the whole "American" and "British" wording is not only more accurate but also won't get outdated any time soon compared to "NTSC" and "PAL" which would really only realistically work for the Nintendo Entertainment System up until the Wii, which uses those analog connections. Everything else uses digital output (whether through HDMI or the console being portable, like the Game Boy or 3DS), so those don't work. If anything, should I even bother with making a proposal to get everyone else's opinion on the subject, instead of just a limited few on my talk page? – Smashbrosfan99 (talk) 00:34, May 4, 2019 (EDT)

Nothing is stopping you from making a proposal or a forum on the topic. I would actually recommend following that path to gauge the user base's larger opinion.

Additionally, please remember to follow SW:1RV, which states:

"Do not revert another user's revert on an article, especially on matters of opinion. Use the talk page to reach consensus or at least a compromise before any additional revisions occur."

Again, feel free to create a forum on the topic. Doing so will bring more attention to the matter and allow a greater number of users to contribute to the discussion. For now, however, the NTSC/PAL terminology should stay, so that the wiki's discourse on the topic remains uniform. Hopefully, my points will assist you and the wiki going forward. DarkFox01BAM! SHOCK DODGE! 00:48, May 4, 2019 (EDT)

Elevating to admin warning. This is a breach on both SW:CONSENSUS as it's a mass edit that was never discussed first, and SW:1RV because you are edit warring with people who called you out on it. SerpentKing 13:08, May 4, 2019 (EDT)

You are speaking as if you do not understand that language evolves over time. It is true that the origin of "PAL" meaning "systems that use the PAL technology" is obsolete. But people still use the term to mean "the Europe/Africa/Oceania regions", and thus it has not become incorrect for us to keep doing so. Toomai Glittershine The Wacko 13:10, May 4, 2019 (EDT)

Hello Smashbrosfan99, I just had a suggestion for you. If you were told to stop making specific edits before (in this case, ones regarding to the PAL/British English versions), and started a proposal related to them afterwards/before, its generally a good idea to stop making such edits until the matter is over (especially if you were told to stop). You're not the first where a similar type of situation has happened to. The reason being that the matter had not been resolved yet, so pages tend to stay the same as they were before the related edits (and discussion) to make sure its acceptable or not. Especially since this type of change would effect the whole Wiki and not just 2 or 5 pages. I hope this helps, and that you'll take this into consideration in your future edits. Wolff (talk) 01:08, May 8, 2019 (EDT)

One more time and you are done editing SmashWiki. This is your last warning. SerpentKing 15:30, December 17, 2019 (EST)

You are still doing this, despite being warned countless times before. Nokii — 15:02, January 3, 2020 (EST)

And you've done it again. Please, listen to someone when they tell you something. If they tell you to not make certain edits, don't continue to make those edits. Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer (talk) 19:57, August 10, 2021 (EDT)

You have had more than enough warnings about this, you have been blocked, and if you keep it up after the block is up, you'll just get banned for much longer. Omega Tyrant 20:05, August 10, 2021 (EDT)

I should point out to you that your claims that PAL and NTSC are no longer valid terms is directly at odds with the header paragraphs on those pages I just linked (both say that the terms are today used as shorthands for European/American versions of the game). While it’s true that the switch is largely region-free, regional differences between versions of games do still exist, so using that argument is also invalid.
If, after your block expires (you are currently still able to edit this page), you still feel the need to convince us that we shouldn’t be using these terms anymore, then the very next thing you should be doing is making a new topic over at Forum:Proposals, getting the majority of people to agree with you, and then, ONLY then, may you go back and remove the terms from the pages you’ve been targeting. Fair enough? Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 22:06, August 10, 2021 (EDT)