Forum:Opinions on Sonic
Why does everyone think Sonic is low tier? I main him and I can do very well when using him. I know he lacks killing moves and the ones he does have show low priority. However, his speed makes up for that. He is one of the few characters that can combo, and he's a good damage racker. He is at least deserving of high-middle tier. People just have to put time into using him instead of saying "He's too weak I'm gonna just abuse Snake's forward tilt". His Final Smash is among (if not) the best in the game. Sonic especially excels at one-on-one matches. I mean, I personally think Lucario is an even worse killer but people still like him. I guess what I'm trying to say is:"Other than being a bad KOer, why does everyone hate Sonic?" Also, please don't answer that question with:"We hate him cuz his games suck", because I totally agree.SonicROBTrainer (talk) 23:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- Being a bad KOer would pretty much do it. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 03:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
I actually have Sonic in the high tier of my tier list. It's pretty hard to hit someone if you can't even catch them. I don't think Sonic sucks, nor do I hate his games. I thought "Shadow the Hedgehog" was a great game, despite its poor reception. I basically think Sonic is high tier because of his unpredictability and swift play style. He's also a pretty good edgeguarder. - GalaxiaD (talk) 00:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
His final smash is one of the best in the game, but for me, he is entirely too fast for his own good. I don't like the really fast guys, so somebody like that really irks me. Dexington (talk) 01:24, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, yeah. I don't think ALL of his games suck, but I haven't ssen anything noteworthy since SA2. Chronicles is proving to be very promising though.SonicROBTrainer (talk) 04:01, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Sonic is around the middle,Great speed,amazing recovery,unpredictable!but he's actually once you get him against someone like wario or jigglypuff lacking in the aerial department.
PS:You could just go to history and report his IP :P Hatake91 (talk) 19:04, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Clarinet Hawk deleted that comment about tiers. Cool. Anyway, couldn't Sonic use Spin Dash in midair to improve his air speed? - GalaxiaD (talk) 20:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but it takes time to set up and can't be attacked out of right away. Also, it only improves his speed in one direction so it still has the predictability disadvantages of poor air speed. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 22:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Plus, he could easily be edgeguarded during his spin dash.I take back his aerial capabilities comment though, combined with his special attacks he can create a crude version of a wall of pain. Hatake91 (talk) 01:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Why do people consider Sonic low tier? First, I'd like to point out that Final Smashes does not take place in the competitive scene. Sonics a fast character overall. But he doesn't have alot of killing moves. His tilts are better than his smashes (UTilit > Upsmash) and his special moves almost consist of the same thing. He has very little comboing ability, and it usually takes about 120% damage just to KO a player. He also does not have a decent projectile. Sure you can use it to edge-guard, but I'm pretty sure there are better moves to use in your arsenal. His recoverys pretty good... I'll give you that. Also, his spin dash can easily be affected by a projectile. Once you've stopped that you almost have no chance to combo. You may be good with him, but the metagame shows he's been sucking in tourneys <_<. ItemHazard (talk) 14:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I gotta agree, Sonic has an excellent air game. He's also really good at pursuing opponents off the ledge and then recovering. He does have bad killing moves, but since he has such awesome jumps he can go and attack opponents near the sides of the screen and kill them. He is really fast, and that is what he's good at. And his final smash is pretty much impossible to avoid if the person using him knows how to use it.
Sonic is just not that good. He's got a fast running speed, and that's about it. He may have some combos, but almost none of them result in a KO, and his power attacks are just slow. Trust me, Sonic is not a good character. Swinghimaround (talk) 20:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Sonic can do decent off-stage KO's with his Bair and Dair. His Foward Tilt can help set it up. And his walking speed is faster than the running speed of slower characters as well. --TStick (talk) 00:23, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
You basically said why. Low priority and weak moves. I was hoping he'd be a lot better of a character. That said, I don't think he's bad at all, just average. He's also more difficult to play effectively because of his speed. - Ashran111 (talk) 00:26, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
It might not look like it because of his running speed, but Sonic is actually tied for 5th fastest air speed with Donkey Kong. Although he can't turn around well in midair like Wario and Jigglypuff (Yoshi has the fastest air speed, but he can't change direction in the air without losing speed), he can still do a decent job at pursuing in the air. --TStick (talk) 16:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Opinions, opinions. I say Sonic is one of an awkward character. He's good obviously because of his speed, his vertical recovery, down aerial lag-canceling with Up-B, but he's bad for that his attacks do have low priority, Homing attack misses moving targets time to time, and low KO power. I do like using him for his combo, and he does have a worldwide fanbase or something. Despite regarding such positivities, I have a neutrality towards him. Zexas A. (talk) 04:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Everything has been said already. Low priority, bad KO moves, low aerial combo ability. Oh, and I hate to go off topic, but I always thought it was strange that Sonic has always been considered lower tier material, while Snake, the other 3rd party character, is usually considered the best in the game. Cheezperson (talk) 16:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
sonic is one of the best character there is with his fast speed i can dodge like every single final smash easy and like alot of moves characters use, yah he doesnt have good nockback but he has awsome speed and great jumpingig can do some great combos with him and i beat tabuu on normal only using only him and won alot of wi-fi battles with him i think he is the best bharacter ever!!!
I dont like sonic as a character much, but he is good for beginners.
They didn't put much thought into his moves when they made him though.
He has hundreds of better moves that could have been put in, and they were just LAZY when they made the specials. I really despise what the sonic franchise has become after the Genesis days....(knuckles is the only good character in the whole franchise IMO) - GDKN
Well, there's E-123 Omega, who's just plain awesome, but, yeah.......... I really don't think Sonic sucks. He does have unins pired moves, though.SonicROBTrainer (talk) 05:32, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Sonic is sometimes too fast for his own good. i mean half the people i play run right past me and off the stage. plus his aerial game sucks. This has nothing to do with his recovery being bad, but it is just plain old gay. OH SHIT! A SPRING!! Curlyfries (talk) 02:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Sonic has a steep learning curve because of his speed, which takes a while just to learn how to control effetively. It also takes a while to get used to the fact that he does have a very good air and ground game with a lack of killing power. He does have a number of good combos but he's also excellent for hit and run. What puts Sonic into the lower tiers is the fact that in tournament rules he can't use his Final Smash, which is one of things the game is somewhat balanced around, and he lacks reach, which most of the top characters have. Since he has so few killing moves, he's quite predictable to guard against when trying to kill, but on the other hand it's very difficult to react in time...
...but in the hands of someone who can control him, Sonic is a BEAST. His Final Smash is arguably the reason Final Smashes are banned from tournaments. The much-mocked Spring is one of the best defensive moves in the game, along with allowing shenanigans like comboing someone into the air, and chasing them with a U-air, Spring, U-Air for an easy kill. Competitively, it's probably just a matter of time until someone with enough skill starts doing sick and wrong things with Sonic's insane speed. RogueMastermind
Hit and run? That'd be too predictable. And I wouldn't say Sonic's air game is good, because his aerials are awkward and difficult to land correctly. His Final Smash is cheap, I agree, but it's definitely not the reason they're banned from tournaments; it's because they vary too much in power and in the efficiency in which you perform the FS. For example, you have to aim Link's Final Smash, but with Wario's you just press B the instant you get it. Without FS's turned on, Sonic is pitifully useless because he practically depends on his FS for kills. Along with his low priority and lack of power, that just makes Sonic a poor overall character.
I agree that Sonic is too predictable, but his air game is still strong, mostly because of his good air speed. The closest comparison I can think of is that his air game is similar to Falco/Fox in that it's very potent once you've got it down . I've never had many problems landing Sonic's air moves, aside from the D-air which is predictable and easy to defend against. His U-air and B-air are probably his best kill moves and fairly easy to land. I don't think he's top or even high tier, but he's certainly got more potential than bottom. His speed and lack of lag lets him do beautiful and sick combos. IMO, he's probably in the medium tier somewhere, it's just that nobody's figured out how to use him that well yet. He also suffers a bit in 1v1 since there's only one other person to watch and worry about and he can't abuse his move speed quite as well.
On FS's: I daresay they're relatively balanced and maybe deserve a second consideration for tournaments. (My casual group uses items on low with the only item on being Smash Balls for our tourneys) There are a few categories but with a few exceptions they are mostly balanced with the character. Sonic's gives him a great killing move, sure, but that's because of a decided lack of killing moves. Likewise, everyone with a sword, and a few without one, has to connect with their FS to get anything out of it. I do agree that some FS are powerful to the point of being arguably OP (mostly Super Sonic and Grenade Launcher, both of which last long enough to potentially KO the same opponent twice) while others are very difficult to kill with, like Blue Falcon.
Quick categories (feel free to comment and/or add opinions. Better names for categories also welcome)
- Grab and Pop: any FS that you simply use as soon as the ball is yours. The rest of the work is done by the smash itself. FS's in this category would be both PK Starstorms, Palutena's Army, Iceberg, End of Day, and Waddle Dee Army.
- Controlled: any FS that you use right away, but instead transform you into a super-version of the character. You still have to control it well to make it effective. Otherwise similar to G&P FSs. FSs in this category would be: Super Sonic, all 3 Landmasters, Giga Bowser, Octopus, Wario-Man, Rocketbarrel Barrage, Aura Storm, Volt Tackle, Super Dragon, Grenade Launcher, and Diffusion Beam.
- Aimed: any FS that you have to connect with initially, or the move fails. FSs in this category are Critical Hit, Great Aether, both Triforce Slashes, Zero Laser, Galaxia Darkness, Mario Finale, Beast Ganon, Blue Falcon, Triple Finish, and both Light Arrows.
- Tackle (or Hug in some circles): any FS that is at its best, or even only effective, when you're close to the enemy or as close as possible. FSs in this category are Power Suit Samus, Cook Kirby, Konga Beat, Negative Zone, Peach Blossom, and Puff Up.
