User talk:Serpent King/Archive 11

FlamesofRevolution

You may not remember this but a while back you blocked an account called Yo Dawg, and then that user created numerous sock puppet accounts. Shortly after deleting those you blocked the account FlamesofRevolution, seemingly because you believed he was the one doing it. He wasn't. I know it might seem like I'm lying, but I was that person and FlamesofRevolution is innocent. Please believe me, I don't want to see someone getting punished for my pranks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mincecraft (talk • contribs) 15:56, 6 February 2017

TheSmashBrothersDocumentary

Thank you for your feedback for my edit of the The Smash Brothers documentary. It's easier to write a lot and then have it skimmed off over time. I plan on following up with this series but have a question. Once the new series called "Metagames" comes out, would you rather I create a new documentary article or just add it to the already made original documentary? That way I can sort things out ahead of time. Lv20ninja (talk) 01:12, 19 February 2017 (EST)

Uhh I think for now, it's fine to put it on the existing article. Serpent King 01:33, 19 February 2017 (EST)

Yes that's understandable, thank you. Lv20ninja

(talk) 01:38, 19 February 2017 (EST)

Debug menu filenames

How sold are you on the idea of including those internal filenames for debug menu boss characters in Melee? Personally, I feel like those should really only be in the lead paragraph in cases like Trophy Collector where there isn't otherwise any official name. At most, I feel like they belong in trivia; there's nothing particularly notable about Master Hand being "MASTERH", is there? "GKOOPS" and "CREZYH" are a smidgen more interesting, but even then they're merely slight typos. Miles (talk) 02:38, 8 March 2017 (EST)

I think that at the very least the names should redirect to the correct pages. It seems to me like internal names for non-VS characters should be included as we do with non-VS stages, to keep things consistent. I was actually thinking more along the lines of eventually putting a spot for this in the infobox, but I do wonder if that's overkill. Serpent King 02:41, 8 March 2017 (EST)

I'm not arguing with the redirects; those are completely reasonable. I guess I just think it's odd to include the debug menu filenames for things that don't need them and where they don't convey anything the "normal" official name doesn't already say. A person going to the Master Hand (SSBM) page may or may not care about the debug menu context, and I'd argue that the vast majority of interaction with the character is not through a context where that filename is relevant or meaningful. Shoving it in the infobox also seems unnecessary because, again, it doesn't say anything new. I feel like we should limit discussion of filenames to cases like "EMBLEM" where it clues us in to how the game was developed; "CREZYH" doesn't do that. Miles (talk) 02:50, 8 March 2017 (EST)

True, but then when you think about it, it isn't that distracting. "(known internally as whatever)" is a 4-word subnote, then the rest of the article goes. It's not like it is overly intrusive to the bulk of the article. I think of the first sentence of a wiki article as sort of a "declaration" article, where we get all known nomenclature out of the way. Serpent King 02:53, 8 March 2017 (EST)

I'm sorry for being so blunt, but I really vehemently disagree with you on this. I find it heavily distracting and it detracts from the article as a whole from my perspective. I don't really know what the best way of resolving it is, though; we could try a more general talk page discussion if you think it'd be productive, or something else... I don't know. Blugh. ._. Miles (talk) 03:13, 8 March 2017 (EST)

Yeah sure, whatever you want to do. Maybe we should wait on the PM thing to finish first though things are heated enough over there as it is. Serpent King 03:15, 8 March 2017 (EST)

Let me make sure I am understanding correctly. You are contesting the character pages (Master/Crazy/Giga/Wireframes) from having this, not the non-VS stages, correct? Serpent King 03:16, 8 March 2017 (EST)

It's more about positioning and importance than whether to have it at all, I guess. I just feel weird having it right there in the lead before the sentence has even explained what it is. In cases where the official name and the internal filename match or very-nearly match, I'd just skip mentioning it altogether. In cases where there's an interesting distinction to be made, I'd make it near the end of the lead or in the trivia. So I'd include it on pages like Trophy Collector, and obviously it's the only name for stuff like AKANEIA and ICETOP; but I'd skip it on anything where it matches the name like the Hands, Giga Bowser, etc.

Sample of what I'm getting at: rather than "F-Zero Grand Prix (known internally as 8-1BBROUTE) is a special stage [...]" being the lead, I'd add a sentence at the end of the intro (right before the first header) that said something like:

"The level's internal filename, as seen in the debug menu, is 8-1BBROUTE, where "8-1" refers to its position in Adventure Mode and "BBROUTE" presumably is short for "Big Blue Route"."

Hopefully that makes some sense. Miles (talk) 03:27, 8 March 2017 (EST)

I might not be very active in the coming months

Hey there, SK. I forgot to mention this to the others yesterday, so I figured my best bet was if I told you here.

So basically, I'll be resuming school tomorrow, and I'll likely get bombarded with a lot of work as always. While I may still edit here and there in this wiki, it's likely that I won't really be in the Discord much at all.

Just wanted to throw that out there so it doesn't seem like I suddenly disappeared. Take care, everyone. Ragnarok320, The Toa of Fire (talk) 12:24, 9 March 2017 (EST)

No problem, man. Take care! Serpent King 18:49, 9 March 2017 (EST)

PM stuff

Message me here or I don't know on the other sites I list (outside of Smashboards) if you need any help with PM stuff. --PPS KoRo, King of Smash 64 Knowledge, and bad grammar....and bad puns (talk) 23:30, 9 March 2017 (EST)

Sure thing, also if you want to talk to all of us, you are free to use the discord server as well. Serpent King 00:07, 10 March 2017 (EST)

Question

I have a question that could change my editing career. Is it bad if you edit on both SmashWiki and Smashpedia? Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ 22:40, 20 March 2017 (EDT)

Not really lol. Do what you want, just don't plagiarize either direction. Serpent King 23:14, 20 March 2017 (EDT)

Yes sir! Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~

23:25, 20 March 2017 (EDT)

This edit

Any particular reason you removed this? Is it not trivia? - EndGenuity (talk) 12:22, 24 March 2017 (EDT)

It isn't true. Every game in the series saves the last character/alt used Serpent King 17:53, 24 March 2017 (EDT)

It actually is true, it just might need clarification. What it means is even after you turn off the game, it still remembers the last costume you used for each character, which is something no other Smash game does to my knowledge. Disaster Flare

(talk) 18:10, 24 March 2017 (EDT)

Oooh. Well that's not what it said :P Serpent King 18:23, 24 March 2017 (EDT)

Smasher profiles

Is there a Wiki page that provides guidelines on uploading pictures of Smashers? —S+ Tier (List) | 23:44, 24 March 2017 (EDT)

No, but typically the deal is one image per smasher Serpent King 23:47, 24 March 2017 (EDT)

It's because I wanted to take some from streams. —S+ Tier (List) |

23:48, 24 March 2017 (EDT)

Debug menu

Hello. The reason I think it is problematic to say the debug menu was "accidentally" left in Melee is because it assumes the developers' intentions, and many video games (new and old) have some form of developer tools accessible someway or another. Were they all accidentally left there too? This phrase might suit something like the extender better. "Scrapped" might have been a bit better, but I agree that it would have implied it should have stayed in the game without blackbox. "Leftovers" is the best and most general term, and the most widely used for anything seemingly abandoned in video game code. —S+ Tier (List) | 02:42, 25 March 2017 (EDT)

Given that the first two games of having their debug elements firmly intact as opposed to the last two where there is no trace of such a feature, one can infer that the first two were not meant to have it left in at all, especially given Nintendo's general stance on cheating. Serpent King 02:48, 25 March 2017 (EDT)

Just because the debug menu in, let's say, Sonic the Hedgehog and its second and third consecutive titles (the latter which, coincidentally, requires AR) was there it doesn't mean it wasn't meant to be in that point in time simply because later Sonic titles didn't have the feature. If Nintendo somehow theoretically simply turned off the code for Training Mode in Smash 5 for the Switch (let's also say their intent is to prevent cheating) the circumstances don't say past games weren't meant to have these elements. —S+ Tier (List) |

03:06, 25 March 2017 (EDT)

The two pages I marked for deletion.

Yeah can you please get to those? The sooner they're gone the better. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 18:25, 8 April 2017 (EDT)

Block suggestion

We may need to block or caution the IP 71.194.133.216. I saw two instances of falsifying information on Smash Rivalries, though they have been reversed before the page was protected. Check for yourself. Black Vulpine (talk) 23:28, 9 April 2017 (EDT)

Last night another IP user got pinged by me: 82.69.56.206. This person has apparently tried to put in an unrelated piece of trivia about Rolf Harris into SSB4's page twice before. Both times they got blocked for that. Last night I caught them doing exactly the same thing. Despite the fact that they've done it before though, I decided to AGF and gave a gentle nudge on their talk page - but I thought I should let you know. Black Vulpine (talk) 20:03, 10 April 2017 (EDT)

Please direct all vandalism reports here. Serpent isn't the only admin on the wiki. :P Disaster Flare

(talk) 21:43, 10 April 2017 (EDT)

I don't have access to editing that page yet. I need to be 'autoconfirmed'. Black Vulpine (talk) 22:50, 10 April 2017 (EDT)

Ah right. With your edits, though, you should be able to edit it within a few days so hang tight. Disaster Flare

(talk) 22:52, 10 April 2017 (EDT)

Oh, actually I CAN edit that page now. But how? I haven't been here for a week yet. Anyway, Serp has taken action on this issue so I'm going to strike it out now. Black Vulpine (talk) 23:12, 10 April 2017 (EDT)

Just talked to porple about this, apparently our autoconfirmed requirements got set to 4 days, 5 edits by accident. It is back the way it was now, I am not sure if you lose autoconfirmed status because of this or not...but if so it's 3 days, you'll have it in no time. Until then, feel free to report stuff here. Or after even, if nothing is done after you report it to the noticeboard. Serpent King 23:28, 10 April 2017 (EDT)

In case you're curious, I have found out the hard way, if the autoconfirm rules are changed, anyone who met the old rules but does not meet the new ones will have their autoconfirmed status removed. I'm not complaining too much about this, it's just inconvenient, is all.

By the way, this got me thinking. If a page becomes protected because of say, edit warring, we don't seem to have it written anywhere that if one's actions cause a page to become protected, it can be disruptive for other members too who had nothing to do with the drama but which have genuine edits to make, but can't because the page is protected now. I think more people should think about that. :) Black Vulpine (talk) 23:37, 10 April 2017 (EDT)

Usually edit warring is met with a block, not protection. I honestly should have just done that with Rayquaza07, not sure why I didn't. Serpent King 00:01, 11 April 2017 (EDT)

Disaster Flare already gave him quite the chipping yesterday, so I say we just straight up block him if he does it again. Black Vulpine (talk) 00:06, 11 April 2017 (EDT)

Oh, and Flare, he didn't come to me because I am the only administrator, he came to me because I am the best one 😎. This is the only time you will ever see me use an emoji on wiki. Enjoy it while it lasts. Serpent King 00:08, 11 April 2017 (EDT)

Now now Serp, don't be acting all big-headed. We have a duty to be acting professional. 😜 (Oh, I shake my head at the double-irony of my words.😝) Black Vulpine (talk) 00:15, 11 April 2017 (EDT)

Anyways, getting back on track here. Part of my job as an administrator is to help you guys out with stuff, so yes, please feel free to leave reports and stuff like that on my talk page. For standard block suggestions, the noticeboard is optimal, but for everything else, talk pages work. Serpent King 00:18, 11 April 2017 (EDT)

Characters Used

Why exactly isn't there a specific written down rule regarding characters used on tournament pages? I know there's supposedly an "unwritten rule" about it, but it being unwritten just makes the concept very nebulous and undefined. It would also help newer editors. Diamond444 (talk) 12:11, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Example: Superboomfan, on the Super Smash Con 2016 page, is said to have used Donkey Kong. This defies the rules as set out here. He only used DK in two Recorded Sets, one vs Bowl in Pools (which allegedly doesn't count) and one vs Isai (in which he lost the game but won the set, but that also doesn't count under these rules). Written up information on an official page could prevent misunderstandings like this from happening. Diamond444 (talk) 12:40, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Only problem is, where would we document it? There's no policy where this could honestly fit. I do think it should be documented, however.

Penro 16:50, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Maybe create a new policy? I'm not exactly sure. I also believe that "pools" should be more specific, but that can be discussed later. Diamond444 (talk) 17:04, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

It's a little too specific to make an entire policy over it. I guess it could get added to the notability policy, but even then it's like putting a tangerine in an orange dish. There isn't really any reason why it shouldn't be in policy though. Serpent King 17:56, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

I just would like to have it somewhere viewable, not in the ether. Diamond444 (talk) 19:28, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Perhaps we should have a style guide for various competitive play-related articles, and include this as a guideline in such a context? Miles (talk) 19:39, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

What else would go into such a guideline? Serpent King 19:41, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

When it comes to what information goes into a tournament page, there are things that may not be inherently obvious like:

How many places do we list in the results? (top 16? 32? more?)
What qualifies a side event as notable enough to include? (Note that we've been kind of piecemeal on this one)
Exact criteria for when to list a character as used
What belongs in a summary or notable results section

Beyond those, similar write-ups of "try to include ____" wouldn't be a bad idea for things like Smasher pages, sponsors, etc. Miles (talk) 19:48, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Also, in the interest of clarity, I'm not desperate to have such a thing implemented, but I think that's about the only context where such a note makes sense to include as guideline/policy. Miles (talk) 19:55, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Maybe an active proposal for such a thing should be made? Diamond444 (talk) 09:22, 24 April 2017 (EDT)

It's your suggestion, go ahead. Serpent King 11:47, 24 April 2017 (EDT)

(reset indent) If there's not a guideline on competitive articles and how to write them, like smasher pages, tournamnet articles, etc, then we should make one. This information can go here too. Penro 11:54, 24 April 2017 (EDT)

Question/Help

See, I'm trying to make a talkpage notice similar to yours above (which is why I uploaded that exclamation image), and I'm using your notice as a base and trying to make edits, but it's a bit too complicated, especially since i forgot, like,everything about wiki coding. Can you help? All I'm trying to do is make the part where the dark green is red, the border black, and the image change. Can you help me? Sorry for the trouble. Penro 16:46, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Yeah sure, no problem. Just put your signature in if you want it, and possibly take my advice in the edit summary. Serpent King 17:46, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Thanks. And also thanks for that spelling correction lol and fixing the colors. Penro 18:49, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Since you were gone, we created a discord channel. Care to join? Serpent King 19:10, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Probably not. I'm not allowed to have discord, skype, anything but this really. the only reason i'm even allowed this is because it helps something (the wiki) in some way, lol. Perhaps a while from mow, but for right now, i'm kinda stuck im this predicament. Penro 19:48, 23 April 2017 (EDT)

Why was Exdia's page deleted?

I noticed you deleted Exdia's page with the reason of "fraudulent article", but in this page I gave tournament results and proof of his notability in the community with his showing in The Smash Brothers documentary, his YouTube channel and where Seagull said on commentary he's the reason I play Luigi. I would like to know more, because Exdia has been in the Smash scene since 2009 and I think it's fair for him to have an article.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Autocune123 (talk • contribs) 22:07, 19 May 2017 (EDT)

I deleted it off of a tip from one of our best competitive editors. If you want to know his reasons for requesting deletion, ask him. Serpent King 21:47, 19 May 2017 (EDT)

Pummeluff

It's German. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 22:27, 1 June 2017 (EDT)

In general: we have character names in other languages listed places like here; it would be advisable to check these before deleting redirects. Miles (talk) 02:47, 2 June 2017 (EDT)

Fake sockpuppet

I don't wanna get all conspiracy theoryish or anything, but I think the sock puppet of Brawl Boss was not actually him. He was acting all nice and stuff saying he'd learned his lesson, so to suddenly come in acting rude again, and seemingly shocked at discovering he had been blocked doesn't add up. Idk maybe just my asd but it seems weird to me. Alex Parpotta (talk) 14:42, 10 June 2017 (EDT)

Regarding Phoenix1's notability

Hello Serpent King,

The esports team known as Phoenix1 now has a whopping three players on their team. The team has also been a household name in the LCS tournaments (League of Legends) making it a AAA team. Now with CaptainZack joining Tweek and Duck on Phoenix1, I feel there is a significant presence in the Smash scene with this team. One of the notability rules is that an esports team must have a significant presence in the world of Smash. All three of the players that are signed to the team are among the best players in their respective games and are among the names being talked about for their respe ctive characters.

I would like to know if Phoenix1 has become notable enough to be on SmashWiki based on these facts. Who knows, they might pick up a fourth smasher in the coming two months. -- Falcon-X (Freedom House) 10:21, 12 June 2017 (EDT)

prefer to keep crews/teams that have won things as a unit, and not decide only based on individual skill. Serpent King 15:03, 12 June 2017 (EDT)

Potato Grenade?

Wait, what exactly did he do? I mean, obviously, the racist remark which he was argumentative about, but I thought that could still fall under SW:AGF? ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:17, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

It does seem kinda strange that he'd be blocked indefinitely for vandalising his own user page. Maybe just block him for a month or so and he'll learn his lesson? Alex Parpotta (talk) 17:23, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

I don't know that he needs to be blocked at all. He did a couple things wrong, was informed that it was wrong, and hasn't done anything since (good faith or otherwise). Shouldn't he at least be given a chance to improve from the advice given to him? ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:28, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

I also protest. I caught him and chipped him, and while he did initially put up a fight about it, he was eventually convinced that he was in the wrong. I know our policy stated that breaching SW:USER can result in blocks, but an infinite block, especially in this case, is far too extreme. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation 18:12, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

Inclined to agree with the above, this just smacks of sabre rattling. Someone acting like a moron on their userpage is one thing, but when the questionable content was removed and he got confronted over it, he stopped and pissed off. Do we really need to bother blocking him, let alone indefinitely?

--- Monsieur Crow, Author Extraordinaire, 18:48, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

I also agree with this. He seems to have realized his mistake and he hasn't edited since. Why should that justify an infinite block? Diamond444 (talk) 18:54, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

This should clear it up. The user was clearly a sock of Drilly, who is now infamously creating user accounts and vandalizing with them. I don't even need to check IPs, his last few exploits were all racist vandalism against the Japanese. Serpent King 19:10, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

Alright, that's completely fair. Sorry for somewhat dogpiling with the others, but as to prevent an episode like this from happening again, I think you should make it clear when you're banning sockpuppets (especially from our old friend Drilly), as the initial block reason was only given as "vandalism".

Skål.

--- Monsieur Crow, Author Extraordinaire, 19:12, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

Alright, will do, sorry about that. Serpent King 19:14, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

Teleport

Yeah, I didn't mean for it to come off as if I'm content with edit warring. It's just that I remember adding it, thinking it was useful, only for it to be removed. And yet I never saw it get removed, so I never found out why until you told me just yesterday. I mean I kinda got it (hence why I said that if someone feels the need to directly call me out for it that I deserve it), but not enough to understand why it got removed. Again I didn't mean for it to come off as submissive and anti-productive as it did, and I apologize. Thank you. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 09:43, 3 July 2017 (EDT)

Alrighty not a problem. Serpent King 16:35, 3 July 2017 (EDT)

About the Fox McCloud page...

The artwork featured on a character's page has a number of unwritten rules. If memory serves, we only use the most recent appearance of a character if it closely resembles their appearance in the most recent Smash game; for instance, prior to being introduced as DLC, Roy's page only featured his art from Fire Emblem: The Sword of Seals, not his newer artwork from Fire Emblem Awakening. I know it seems arbitrary, but it's something we've done for many years now.

--- Monsieur Crow, Author Extraordinaire, 19:42, 3 July 2017 (EDT)

Well...does it not? Comparing this to this I see mostly similarities. A few of his clothes are wrong, but other than that, the Zero one just seems more realistic, and that's the only main difference. Serpent King 20:06, 3 July 2017 (EDT)

I guess. I'm not actually trying to enforce the unwritten rules, I was just trying to give some clarification, since you seemed a bit confused (which is pretty understandable).

--- Monsieur Crow, Author Extraordinaire, 20:10, 3 July 2017 (EDT)

Alrighty thanks for that notion. Serpent King 20:55, 3 July 2017 (EDT)