User talk:Toomai/Archive 18

26/11/08 – 05/05/10

41,932

07/05/10 – 28/09/10

38,676

29/09/10 – 22/02/11

40,916

07/03/11 – 23/06/11

39,845

25/06/11 – 09/10/11

48,940

09/10/11 – 21/02/12

47,636

03/03/12 – 03/11/12

40,731

08/11/12 – 19/05/13

41,131

25/05/13 – 27/08/13

45,090

27/08/13 – 23/11/13

46,614

26/11/13 – 23/02/14

41,931

01/03/14 – 06/06/14

51,753

11/06/14 – 08/08/14

51,697

14/08/14 – 03/11/14

46,557

03/11/14 – 13/01/15

46,342

14/01/15 – 08/04/15

47,396

11/04/15 – 15/06/15

36,186

29/04/15 – 14/09/15

21,615

18/09/15 – 05/11/15

54,252

07/11/15 – 04/12/15

38,669

07/12/15 – 15/04/16

51,044

20/04/16 – 16/12/16

39,885

17/12/16 – 26/06/18

36,408

28/06/18 – 31/04/20

53,765

01/04/20 – 22/12/24

33,661

Hi Toomai

I'm not really interested in vandalizing or anything yet, but I'd like to request that the subpages that I marked for speedy deletion earlier be deleted, simply because of asthetics and RAM preference. If you need me to log in or something for proof, I'll do it, but that just seems unnecessary. 65.49.14.89 20:48, 29 June 2015 (EDT)

I am having a hard time locating a solid explanation for your consternation aside from a vague scattered "I don't like how the admins are running things". Provide one or point out an existing one (while logged in), then we'll talk. Until then, put up or shut up. Toomai Glittershine Da Bess 22:10, 29 June 2015 (EDT)

Let's start this off with a singular complaint towards you (for now). Miles blocked my ip. You expect me to log in and respond to this. Is this supposed to be some really next-level way of telling me that I'm not wanted? Anyways, the stuff.

• 6 month ban for what exactly? Unless he’s been doing what I’ve done (passive-aggressive flame), that doesn’t seem justified.
• My ban got promoted from a 6 month ban to an infinite ban. I get it, I’m the bad guy or whatever, but that’s just improper. If you’re going to be an admin, at least keep your head cool, because a 6 month ban time for providing joking reasons for a page deletion so that other users noticed that the joke page has been around for over a hour is pretty disproportionate to the ban length you give to people who have just flat out vandalized the Wiki.
  • Blocking proxies for 6 months also seems like a really dumb plan, especially since this proxie was used by a completely different user back on June 14th.
• Brian’s allowed to joke about the intelligence of users and not even get a slap on the wrist, but when I do something akin to that, I’ll get blocked because I’m not using my account or whatever. Doesn’t seem like a balanced punishment when you and I are both aware that Brian’s been a douche for the longest time (especially on IRC).
  • Neither you nor Miles have done anything about this btw. You warned him a singular time back in 2014. His talk page has received 5 new sections telling him to stop being so caustic (even if most of the time, he's just jabbing at new users like I've been doing), but neither you nor Miles have done anything. But me? Threat to Wiki security I guess.
• The user in question got a 3 day block for reverting twice, despite probably not even knowing about what to do. I’m fairly certain that the 1 day block exists for a reason. Similar block with a different sentencing time.
  • Miles says that he'd improve or whatever, and I tried to defend him when OT pointed out that Miles was a really bad admin. He hasn't really gotten better at being an admin.

I can list more, but I don't believe in putting in extra work unless I need it. 65.49.14.87 00:45, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

I'm going to leave for a few hours and then come back and respond to this, which will start by archiving this talkpage and moving this section to the new page. In the meantime, I will note that you seem to have no problem constantly hopping IPs to evade blocks, so I figured you should be able to log in no problem. Toomai Glittershine The Pan-Galactic 09:43, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

Okay my response.

First let's talk about you. I called you out on this talkpage quite some time ago for editing while logged out for the purposes of not having your edits attached to your "Megatron1" account. We have a cut-and-dry policy on this; people with accounts are expected to use their account, or risk having their IP edits categorized as sockpuppetry. I gave you a pass over the past six months mostly because the majority of your edits over that time have been perfectly fine. Indeed, Miles only blocked you in February after a string of edits that in my mind were clearly made with intent to remain unrecognized (or at least intent to confound), something that I would have done about the same for. And then yesterday you just went and spammed up some userpages, so no freebies there.

Now, the points you brought up.

1. You can't see contributions made on deleted pages, so it's natural you'd miss the four misinformation pages the user in question made. The username also seems familiar to me in terms of "didn't we have some sockpuppets for this guy?", but I'm not totally sure. Without that information handy, I would agree that a block of 6 months is a bit excessive.
2. I agree that Miles went overboard here, but I defy you to explain how your snippy attitude helped matters.
3. In literally any community, there is going to be at least one guy who seems to have problems respecting people, yet has clearly-useful knowledge and toes the line just enough that he does not deserve punishment. You can either work with him or against him, and for the moment at least, I choose to work with him.
4. I can't really comment on this. There could have been several different factors, such as wiki activity/business in general, account versus IP, possible culmination of lesser offenses, etc. You might be better off asking the guy who made the blocks (hmm, what a concept).

So. In accordance with #2, I'll be cutting the blocks on your IPs to a more reasonable length. In return, how about you do two things:

1. Edit while logged in. Take responsibility for your words, and make things easier for everyone to follow.
2. If you have a problem, then instead of snarking around the bush and creating problems for us to deal with, just spit it out like you did above. I am perfectly okay with people going on at length about how I'm a bad admin (and would hope that others are as well), you just have to present it in a way that makes me want to listen.

Toomai Glittershine The Awesome 19:01, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

"Spammed up some userpages" refers to what exactly? Me tagging my own things for deletion, or me copy-pasting an improper article's contents to the userpage of the creators + the sandbox? To address the "attempting to use your ip as a way to avoid attributing edits to your primary account" business, I was fairly certain that the edit summaries and Dota quotations were enough to tip people off right away, but I guess I've been inactive too long for that to work.

I've talked to a lot of users about Brian. I talked to them about why he never receives a slap on the wrist, and I'm always one to suggest that nepotism is involved. You've confirmed that. I understand the benefits of keeping users around and excusing their behavior as long as they help out. But the way you're handling it? No thanks. Brian hasn't exactly been making massive contributions in a while to justify the fact that you're just letting a bunch of new users tell him to stop being rude while you just sit back and watch. If he made edits like these, I'd understand the part about turning the other way. But with his current edit history? No thanks. I tried bringing it up with flaming because I figured that as admins, you two would be willing to look into things or provide a justification after blocking me or whatever. Instead? I just get dismissed as nothing more than a bored sockpuppet who's just raising objections and causing trouble for no reason. I'm not going to argue morals or whatever, but consider reevaluating the amount of things that you're gonna let him get away with, especially when the new userbase has had issues with him.

As for your last point about bringing up issues, especially with the guy who made the blocks, there's one key problem with doing that. Miles wasn't willing to talk at all. It's ultimately not my issue, but when your only other reliable admin is one who goes overkill on things without negotiation, I believe that a talk with his administrative partner is going to do a lot more good than me telling him, "Hey, you're still goofing up with your adminship even after OT pointed out your flaws." And yes, I have actually talked to others about figuring out a way to call Miles out, but the guy is honestly a little too dense to negotiate with, seeing as how he didn't even try using the talk page to talk to me, because I'm obviously just a no good troll whose just doing what Brian's been doing, but via IP. As far as I'm concerned, you're the more reasonable of the two, and you're the one that hasn't made a promise to improve while barely putting any effort into such a thing. MegaTron1XD 19:52, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

I'm going to keep it short here but I actually would agree with Megatron1 for once that you two aren't taking enough responsibility as admins and you two being unjust sometimes. Dots (talk) The Balloon 20:06, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

He does make a decent point. Brian has been making some questionable edits lately, and he gets off scotch free. I understand that we are comparing a "bad" user to another "bad" user...but still. Putting myself in the shoes of the people who's edits that he's trashed ("Undid edit by YoshiKong: Uh yea it does. That's how knockback is calculated. Are you an idiot?" among others) doesn't really make me feel too good. It is not right to ignore the substandard (and at times insulting) edits of a user because once made good edits and was once valuable to the wiki.

Now, about Megatron. First, I have to ask, why do you edit logged out if not to provide yourself with a mask? Second, I really do not see the problem with him asking admins to delete his userpages...isn't that what we are supposed to do? Third...joke pages...I mean really, what did you expect? You vandalize, you get banned. These are my thoughts, take or leave. Serpent King (talk) 20:57, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

I would also agree with you that Brian is getting away with his insults without punishments but you would have to admit that he's a Melee semi-professional who knows about competitive play (even perhaps second most knowledgeable on this wiki after PokemonMasterJamal3) and he makes reliable edits to that kind of content, even when he has to rudely revert a user's edits. So despite his rude behavior, Toomai and Miles still lets him go due to his good deeds.

I don't know why Megatron1 decides to cover himself as an sockpuppet. He should've used his own user account. Dots (talk) The Achiever 22:16, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

NIWA News

A few users, myself included, found the Warning! New challenger approaching! label for the new NIWA wiki to be a tad confusing. May I suggest changing it to something like Warning! New wiki approaching! ? Nyargleblargle (Talk) 13:52, 1 July 2015 (EDT)

Unusual characters

What's the problem with “unusual” characters, as you put it in your edit summary at List of challenges (SSB4-Wii U)? They make articles more readable. —Fenhl 16:21, 6 July 2015 (EDT)

I compared the article text before and after my edit that removed the unusuals and saw no appreciable difference; the difference between the "thin space" and normal space was almost imperceptible, and the curly quotes looked extremely out of place simply because they're not used anywhere else. In that sense, it's a matter of consistency. This is not to mention that curly quotes tend to have a bad reputation on wikis to my knowledge, as bots, the search function, and even some browsers don't really understand them properly if they need to do a search or replace operation. Wikipedia also notes that "Straight quotation marks are easier to type and edit reliably regardless of computer configuration". Basically, with minimal at best benefit for the reader, and several issues for the editor, we should just keep things simple. Toomai Glittershine The Orchestral 19:29, 6 July 2015 (EDT)

What you call “imperceptible” can be a huge difference in readability for some readers. The thin space and “curly” (left and right) quotes are used in other articles. Thin spaces make numbers more readable by keeping the digit groups closer together, and the “straight” ASCII quote is a relic from times where there was not enough room in the character set for two different quote characters. In the interest of consistency, correct typography should be used everywhere. What you might have heard about curly quotes being incompatible with certain programs might actually be referring to HTML code, where ASCII quotes should always be used to delimit attributes. The English Wikipedia is the odd one out here: most other wikis (including Wikipedia in other languages) do not have this rule. If you can't type the correct quotes for some reason, use ASCII quotes and someone else will fix them for you. They can be easily typed on OS X, iOS, Android, and as far as I can tell also on Windows with the most common keyboard layouts (older versions of Windows may use a more complex keystroke). Basically, the benefits for readers far outweigh the potential issues for editors, so correct typography should be used at all times. —Fenhl 02:00, 21 July 2015 (EDT)

A search reveals there are seven pages on the entire wiki that use curly quotes. Two are List of Director's Room Miiverse posts and List of tips (SSB4-Wii U), where copying the original source is paramount. One is History of the Midwest Smash Scene, a massive blob of outdated barely-wiki-valid text. One is Sonic (SSB4), which has it for his taunts for some reason (no other character pages do). The last three (Event match, List of trophies by unlock criteria (SSB4-Wii U), List of unlockables (SSB4-Wii U)) are all pages that you have added curly quotes to. Therefore, I would say that "curly quotes are being used in articles" is currently at best inconcistent with the wiki as a whole.

It appears you are suggesting we convert the entire wiki to use curly quotes. As proven many times, bots are not good at this, meaning we would have to do it manually. I hope you agree this is very infeasible and almost impossible to enforce, given that pretty much the entire current userbase other than yourself is not used to the concept (hey, you yourself neglected a curly apostrophe in your "can't" above).

Thin spaces in numbers is usually not an issue whatsoever, since I think the two million G on the challenge panel is the only case where the game (and the wiki) uses spaces instead of commas for delimiting. But if the resulting difference is a single pixel on my screen, I'm going to have a hard time believing that it's easier to read. Toomai Glittershine The Altruistic 08:34, 21 July 2015 (EDT)

Question regarding use of SmashWiki text

Hey Toomai, sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this but I was planning on making a Smash app, where I would use some text from Smash Wiki. Would I be allowed to use the text provided on this site for my app? I plan to make the app free. ThatKawaiiGuy (talk) 13:23, 15 July 2015 (EDT)

As long as you note something like "This text has been sourced from SmashWiki" somewhere, and you link back to the original, it's probably okay. This page has a summary of all the legal crap. Toomai Glittershine The Incomperable 15:25, 15 July 2015 (EDT)

Awesome. Thanks. I've noticed the images have a sort of copyright to them, what about those? Also, would ads in the app be fine? 108.72.25.203 15:40, 15 July 2015 (EDT)

Most screenshots are basically "we don't own these, Nintendo does, we claim it's fair use". This is our current page about that, but this is a proposed alternative. I know nothing about how ads interact with this kind of stuff. Toomai Glittershine The Xanthic 16:38, 15 July 2015 (EDT)

Awesome, thanks for the help. 108.72.25.203 16:46, 15 July 2015 (EDT)

Super Smash Con

Any chance you're going to Super Smash Con next month? -- Kirbman (talk) 14:30, 16 July 2015 (EDT)

Never heard of it. Looked it up. It's about 190 times too far away. So no. Toomai Glittershine Da Bess 16:18, 16 July 2015 (EDT)

Hey dude

Don't forget to change MediaWiki:Sitenotice id. Awesomelink234 PK FLASHBOMB! 09:33, 19 July 2015 (EDT)

If the sitenotice is being changed from "something we want you to know about" to "generic message that's not urgent", there's no need to do so. Toomai Glittershine The Victorious 09:48, 19 July 2015 (EDT)

so i herd you hack wii games

couldja give me a hand? STM (t) 18:33, 19 July 2015 (EDT)

Um well I don't have Xenoblade for Wii so that's obstacle number 1; I could use Dolphin I guess but back when I tried to use it to find internal formulas in Melee I ran into a host of problems that basically resulted in "nope, not gonna happen". Maybe I'll have a preliminary look, but don't expect much. Toomai Glittershine The Obfuscating 20:38, 19 July 2015 (EDT)

I guess you could say he has an obstacle in his path (I'm so sorry) Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 21:25, 19 July 2015 (EDT)

Trophy Prices

So, I don't know if you care or not, but we're currently creating an Excel sheet with ALL trophies and prices (if applicable) and discovered that trophies can have different prices between versions. For example, the Hammer Bro trophy is 300 coins in the 3DS version and 500 coins in the Wii U version. I think this means the "Price" column on the few tables that have it will have to be changed. Also, if you know how to make an Excel file public, I'd greatly appreciate it. AmoongussForLife (talk) 06:17, 23 July 2015 (EDT)