SmashWiki talk:IRC/Archive 1

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I'd like to propose amending this to make it so that behavior on the SmashWiki IRC counts as SmashWiki behavior; i.e., PAs and other ban-worthy behavior there affect a user's status on the wiki itself. Miles (talk) 20:39, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Considering that it's called the SMASH WIKI IRC, I figured it was obvious that it was related to smash wiki. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 21:43, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

And yet people can pretty much say whatever they want there and then use the argument that it's "off-site" and as such has no impact on their status on-wiki. Miles (talk) 21:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I support this idea mainly because users use IRC to avoid SmashWiki policy. Y462 (T • C • E ) 23:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup

I was going to organise the page a bit to include stuff like the Freenode Gateway (which is better than the Wikia one) and a short list of channels aside from #wikia-smashbros that SmashWiki users might find useful, but I'm also considering making it more serious so it's more like other SmashWiki pages (for example, at the moment it has far too many exclamation marks for my liking). Anyone have any strong objections to me making it more serious? PenguinofDeath 15:49, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

I don't mind. It's actually too lighthearted, I think, but you may also want to put methods of joining the channel on the page other than the Freenode Gateway. The "IRC client" link goes to Wikipedia, which is not necessarily helpful since it's giving a "Comparison of Internet Relay Chat clients"..... RAN1domchupunch!!! 18:32, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and serious'd it up. Hopefully I didn't take out anything actually important. Toomai Glittershine Toomai.png The Stats Guy 15:51, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

The hey's goin' on?

"Notice -- Server is currently split, channel modes are limited"
"Due to a network split, you can not obtain channel operator status in a new channel at this time"
"The nickname "NickServ" does not exist."
Someone in IRC land caused a fail. Toomai Glittershine Toomai.png The Stats Guy 20:35, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

That's just cos Freenode is currently experiencing a "net split", which is where one of their servers crashes and anyone currently attached to the network through that server gets disconnected, and no one who uses that server to connect can do so. Just try again in a few minutes - they tend not to last very long. PenguinofDeath 20:51, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't work?

I don't have an IRC client so I tried using the Wikia Gateway. But when I logged in, it says: "An error occurred. Communication socket already exists." What do I do?! movie138music - ( talk ) 15:36, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

What operating system/browser are you using? I don't really know anything about that error, but maybe this kind of info can help. Toomai Glittershine Toomai.png The Table Designer 15:41, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

If Wikia Gateway Doesn't Work

Try This. Be sure to put #wikia-smashbros for channels. If that doesn't work, I can't help you. DP99 (CTE)Dp99.png 15:46, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

update with new IRC

plocks Miles (talk) 16:35, 6 October 2010 (EDT)

Dun. Toomai Glittershine Data Node 17:20, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
I can't connect! My browser just says "Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (irc) isn't associated with any program". Mr. Anon (talk) 21:48, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
Try here. Put #sw for the channel. Doctor Pain 99 (CTE) 21:57, 6 October 2010 (EDT)

This really needs to stop

OK, at this point I am fed up. I am tired of Doc and ZS always getting into flame wars with PH and Megatron. There needs to be a further enforcement of civility from now on. Mr. Anon (talk) 01:19, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

Me? That was some time ago. I'm not fed up with PH (though i am for what he did to Doc). Everytime PH is insulting me, i just say "lol", because i know he is trolling. And i dont get into flame wars with Mega (never had IIRC). Zeldasmash (talk) 09:10, 12 June 2011 (EDT)
Certain users just need to stop trolling and others need to stop feeding the trolls. DoctorPain99 DoctorPain99.png 11:03, 12 June 2011 (EDT)
Sorry about that Zeldasmash. I'm not always on there, so that was my mistake. You're fine. Mr. Anon (talk) 12:17, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

Why...

...am I banned from #sw?--PSIWolf 06:56, 29 June 2011 (EDT)

Er...

Am I banned forever? No, I am not impatient (I can always go to #dk), just asking.--PSIWolf13:30, 7 July 2011 (EDT)

No, I'll never hand out a permaban for a first time offense for a normally good faith user. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 14:49, 7 July 2011 (EDT)

Anon's ruleset proposal

Bump. I am changing this to an official proposal. Should IRC Guidlines be changed to official rules? After a discussion here, I discovered that the current regulations are technically guidelines and therefore not strict rules. Mr. Anon (talk) 13:02, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

Problem, what are in the guidelines are written to be guidelines, and not written in ways to be rules. Example, how could "Many users idle on the IRC - that is, while they are connected, they aren't actively paying attention. Do not expect an immediate reply to a query." be a rule? You will need a proposal of actual rules instead of just changing the guidelines we have now to rules. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 13:12, 13 July 2011 (EDT)
Good point, but things like that only need to be slightly changed. Here is what an actual ruleset would resemble (note that this is more of a sketch then a final rulesheet).
  1. No Personal attacks. It is fine to point out mistakes in other users' conduct, but keep discussion civil. IRC behavior also counts towards wiki records so be warned.
  2. No spamming. Spamming clogs up the channel and interupts legitimate discussion.
  3. Excessive pinging is prohibited.
  4. If a moderator chooses to end a discussion, their decision is final. Any problems with a Moderator's judgement should be discussed with them privately.

Mr. Anon (talk) 13:25, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

These are all Wiki policies, and SW:IRC says that Wiki policies on IRC apply. Your rules won't change anything as they are adressing the wrong issue. The problem is the lack of enforcment of the rules, not the rules themselves. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} 16:02, 13 July 2011 (EDT)
The problem is that the IRC "rules" are actually "guidelines", therefore don't have any actual power. Mr. Anon (talk) 16:12, 13 July 2011 (EDT)
The sentence you're referring to says "When in doubt, assume SmashWiki policies apply", which basically means if you're not sure of what's allowed, behave as you would on the SmashWiki. It is not saying SmashWiki policies are the "rules" of the IRC. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 16:56, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

Um, considering this is a policy proposal and thus pretty important, I am bumping this so people can vote. Mr. Anon (talk) 21:23, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Support. HavocReaper 21:45, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
Support - I do support, as I don't see much harm in a ruleset for the IRC. Blue Ninjakoopa(Talk) 21:52, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
Support well honestly IRC is pretty important to talk to others anyway, and wiki is... responsible i guessLucas-IV- Try to Talk Lucas alive.PNG 11:54, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Support Zeldasmash (talk) 13:30, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Oppose: Simply put, OT's is better. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} 12:03, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Support While I like OT's, Anon's is less strict.-Ivy73002MS.png 15:01, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Please read more carefully, as the opposite is actually true. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} 17:56, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Alternate ruleset proposal

I figured I'll propose a ruleset, as I don't exactly agree with Anon's.

Guidelines

Here are the guidelines on how the chatroom is.

  • The tone of the IRC is less formal than SmashWiki itself. Discussion is free to wander to non-Smash Bros. topics, does not adhere to SmashWiki's posting rules, and is the primary place to talk with others about online brawling.
  • Many users idle on the IRC - that is, while they are connected, they aren't actively paying attention. Do not expect an immediate reply to a query.
  • In the same vein, many users lurk on the IRC - that is, they listen, but don't say anything. There is no requirement to respond to another user, and often a line of "Hello everyone" will be ignored simply because no one feels it is necessary to respond to such a post.

Ruleset

Here are rules that all users on the chatroom must follow.

  • Do not use the SmashWiki's IRC channel to personal attack or harass another user. Remember however, being called out for less than stellar behavior (such as someone calling you an idiot after displaying behavior deserving of such), or being argued with for an argument you're a clear part of, do not constitute as being personally attacked or harassed.
    • Likewise to the above, do not provoke or "bait" another user to PA, harass, or troll you.
  • While imitating other users can be allowed, you are expected to drop an imitation act if told to by a moderator, and continuing imitating a user in the chatroom after they asked you to stop will be considered harassment.
  • Do not spam the channel.
  • Do not excessively ping other users. If someone asks you not to ping them, and their IRC username has a clear shorthand name you can use to get their attention without pinging, you are expected to respect their wishes.
  • If you have a problem with a specific user, and if what they did is not enough to warrant a ban from the channel, you are expected to use the ignore command on them. Failure to do so, while continuing making a complaint about the user, can result in disciplinary action being done to you. "I want to see if they're saying anything about me!" is not a valid excuse to not use the ignore command.
  • Do not be disruptive to the channel. Being disruptive is defined here as behaving in a way that prevents conversation on the channel from happening. Two users arguing logically isn't considered disruptive, but a user insistently arguing an argument they lost in a non logical manner against the other users on the channel can be considered disruptive.
  • If you try to bring up a topic to talk about, and other users show no interest in talking about it or even tell you that they're not interested, you are expected to drop it. If you keep bringing the topic back up, especially to other users who came on after the initial turn down of the topic, you will be kicked from the channel, with continued insistence being met with further punishment.
    • The above also applies to issues on Wiki. If other users wish to keep something on Wiki, you are expected to respect their wishes.
  • There is no limit on what topics can be allowed. However, a moderator may at any time end a discussion if it gets out of hand, or ban a topic from future discussion if it is heavily prone to causing disruptive and non productive arguments.
  • While you may use the channel to ask an admin to use their tools to help with something on the Wiki, do not bug them over issues that are not urgent. Such as, if a redirect has to be deleted so a page title can be moved to a lowercase title, do not expect immediate help. Likewise, if an admin does not help right away with something that is not urgent, do not say something derogatory about it.
    • Also per the above, when asking an admin to do something, be polite about it, and do not demand it.
  • If brawling someone 1 on 1, keep discussion about the brawls in private chat. Talking about the brawls after they're finished with other users in the chatroom can be acceptable, but never use the chatroom to trash talk, brag, etc.
  • While you may discuss a ban or other action of an admin with them on the IRC, you must be civil and rational about it. Harassing and/or insistently arguing non logically with them about it will be met with disciplinary action.
  • If a user clearly violates any of the above, and a moderator is not on at the time or is afk, you must save a log of the incident to present when reporting. Otherwise, a moderator cannot take any action based on word of mouth alone.

Additional notes

Here are some addition notes regarding the rules.

  • The SmashWiki IRC channel, while an extension of Smashwiki, is not considered to be SmashWiki itself. Misbehavior on the IRC channel will not be held against you on SmashWiki, and vice versa, as long as the incident surrounding the misbehavior does not spill over to the other or are not connected. As such, being banned from the IRC channel will not necessarily get you banned from the SmashWiki, and vice versa. However, getting banned from the IRC channel, then bringing up what got you banned for on the SmashWiki, will result in a ban from the latter as well.
  • Being emotionally troubled or irritated is not a valid excuse to break any of the rules above.
  • All action and enforcement done is at moderator's discretion.

Moderator ruleset

Here are additional rules moderators must follow.

  • While the chatroom topic can be something nonsensical and unrelated to SmashWiki or Smash Bros., do not use the topic to advertise/promote something of yours or a friend's that is unrelated to SmashWiki.
    • Also do not use the topic to insult, poke fun at, or highlight a blunder from another user on the Wiki, regardless of if they frequent the chatroom or not.
  • While joke kicks are acceptable if not excessive, do not joke ban users. This prevents users from being able to enter the chatroom despite lack of wrong doing, regardless of how minimal it is.
  • When you ban a user, post their name on the banned user list on the IRC page, as well as the ban reason, and intended length.
  • When doing any moderating action, or lack of, make use of your best judgment, and use powers responsibly.


So then, tell me your support, opposes, and any other comment below. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 10:06, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Support

  1. Support, these rules seem lenient enough.--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk Untitled-1 copy.gif 10:11, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
  2. Yup. Support.--PSIWolf (T • C • E) 10:14, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
  3. Seems fine to me. No more spamming the channel though for the fun of it... :P ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 10:27, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
  4. Support I'm ok with it. Forbidden7MewtwoHeadSSBM.png 11:11, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
  5. Support... i guess... but like forbid-7, i'm fine with it. don't ask why i support both Lucas-IV- Try to Talk Lucas alive.PNG 11:54, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
  6. Support DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} 12:03, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
  7. Support Same as Lucas-IV Unknown the Hedgehog 14:44, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Opposes

  1. I'm sorry, but this doesn't really fix any of the problems we had on IRC, and it is a more complicated ruleset than mine. Mr. Anon (talk) 13:04, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Comments

Also as another note, not all clients have an ignore option, so I don't think it's a good idea to force users to do something that they cannot. Mr. Anon (talk) 15:41, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Explain Anon how my ruleset "doesn't fix any of the problems" despite it covering every rule you brought up plus more. If my ruleset "doesn't fix any of the problems", then your ruleset does not as well. Also, complication is not a bad thing, I would argue that your ruleset is far too simple. As for not all clients have ignore, please provide proof of that, and in the case there is a client that lacks it, the user should get a new client if the situation where the ignore rule applies (which I think you should reread). Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 22:32, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
I can't use ignore on Wiinet IRC, which I use more than chatzilla, and don't think can be changed. Forbidden7MewtwoHeadSSBM.png 22:47, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Operating system question.

Mac OS X cannot find IRC URL right. ..... PSI within NessHeadSSBB.png 12:27, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

It's a problem with your browser, not your OS. Try a different browser or try Special:WebChat. Toomai Glittershine ??? The Riotous 12:28, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Ruleset

I would argue that the IRC needs no ruleset except for the following:

The SmashWiki IRC channel is an extension of SmashWiki itself, and therefore all of the site's rules apply.

Is this somehow insufficient? Miles (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

I don't believe that it is insufficient. The problem honestly does not lie in the policy, but the ops themselves. DoctorPain99 {ROLLBACKER} 18:20, 16 July 2011 (EDT)
Support, though things like excessive spamming/pinging should also be covered. Mr. Anon (talk) 18:21, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Strong oppose IRC is a different entity from the SmashWiki, and therefore rules that work on one will not necessarily transfer well to the other. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 22:25, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

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