Forum talk:Tier list debate 2020: Part 1

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So, since Toomai has formally concluded this debate, it has been over a year since then with no word on what "Part 2" would entail. In that time, I feel this debate has become outdated and whatever Toomai has planned should just be scrapped. Besides the significant time gap since Toomai's conclusion, most comments in this forum are upwards of two years old from users who were less educated on the matter than they are now, and more significantly, PG Stats has emerged as a suitable replacement for the SmashBoards Back Room. Notably, back in March of last year, PG Stats posted a new Melee tier list that was widely accepted by the community and immediately became the basis of our current Melee tier coverage without any opposition. I feel, with offline events having been back for a while now and Ultimate's updates being finished, it's a matter of time before PG Stats puts out a tier list for Ultimate, and that's the tier list people are going to uphold as the most "official", both within SmashWiki's userbase and especially outside it. As such, there's no point in trying to continue creating our own "aggregate tier list", and we should just readily accept what PG Stats eventually puts out as Ultimate's tier list. Plus their tier list essentially works as an "aggregate tier list" anyway, so those that still insist on Option 3 should be satisfied with them, and I would trust them more to put such together than whatever SmashWiki users could do.

So basically what I'm saying:

  • Cancel "Tier list debate: Part 2" and scrap the idea of SmashWiki creating its own aggregate tier list.
  • Accept PG Stats as our new source for tier lists for Ultimate and Melee for the foreseeable future.

This topic has been rumbled about a lot in the Discord server for the past year, so it's time to formally resolve it. Omega Tyrant   22:28, April 11, 2022 (EDT)

Fine, do whatever you want.

I guess here is where I'll formally apologize for letting this drag out too long. To be fair, this whole world situation started like a month or two after this started, so that screwed everything up. Since then, I've probably restarted what I was trying to do from scratch like four or five times, and I will admit that I kind of lost what I was trying to actually accomplish in favour of something that was too perfect. I should've broken it into smaller steps and let people in on it more frequently.

So yeah. If you have such a simple solution, go ahead and do it. I have reams of too much other junk to do, I'm getting out of the way. Toomai Glittershine   The Undirigible 22:45, April 11, 2022 (EDT)

I support using OT's idea of using PG Stats. VoqéoT 05:07, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

Happy to support using PG Stats, thanks for your efforts Toomai. Toast  ltimatum  07:18, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

I support this.   Thegameandwatch   The Nerd 07:25, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

For what it's worth, we should not refer to it as the "official tier list" as we have done in the past. There is no such thing as an official tier list, and when referencing tier list positions on character articles, we should state clearly that we are using the PG Stats tier list. Alex the Weeb 08:19, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

Support OT's plan. Awesomelink234, the Super Cool 🦊Furry🦊 Gamer (talk) 11:24, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

Support. PG Stats's aggregation of professional opinion and top player results is pretty much the best-case scenario for a Wiki that prides itself on its competitive coverage, while still featuring editors with vastly disparate opinions on, and experience with, the competitive scene. Even if many of our editors (myself included) have reservations about the concept of professional tier lists, so long as a reputable source is doing the dirty work for us (excellent work, at that), why not just refer to their work? There's a great case to be made for the existence of tiers, after all, and so long as we don't try to pretend that our favoured lists are infallible or "official" or anything, there is no harm done in featuring and referring to them. Er... sorry, that was a bit of a long ramble. With thanks and best wishes to Toomai, Samuel the Banjo-Kazooie Boss.   13:04, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

Support. Good plan, using PG Stats would be the best option in my eyes. Your Senpai, Iron Warrior 15:45, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

Support. Obviously, this is great. PG Stats is literally the only way we can at least see an "official tier list", especially when they have updated the Melee tier list when the Smashboards Smash Back Rooms became inactive (potentially abandoned (if so)) with its tier list. Howplayz 23:18, April 12, 2022 (EDT)

Support. as long as we generally discipline the terminology "official", I'm all for PG Stats' being the new gospel, if they release an Ultimate tier list that is. PhantoFantasma (talk) 19:23, April 13, 2022 (EDT)

Support: Nothing else to add that hasn't already been explained.   Omega Toad, the Toad Warrior. (I'm the best!) 03:55, April 14, 2022 (EDT)

Support basically what everyone else said. S3AHAWK (talk)  03:57, April 14, 2022 (EDT)