Talk:List of rumors/Archive 5

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Removal of certain rumors

I've had this discussion on the Discord server and several people seemed to agree, but it'd of course be wrong to not bring it up here. So here are the rumors I think we should remove and the reasons why:

Brawl

Rumor	Reason
Radio interview rumor	Looking back at it (and I could be wrong), this rumor didn't seem that widespread to begin with and the idea of Sakurai releasing info in a radio interview doesn't seem very plausible.
Brawl is the last game rumor	Pretty sure we have confirmation from Sakurai that every Smash game is developed as if it was the last one. It seems to just be game development philosophy that they practice.

Smash 4

Rumor	Reason
Lucina hoax	Not very widespread outside of AllisBrawl. Not that I'm discounting the popularity of AiB, but I don't think we should keep localized rumors here.

Ultimate

Rumor	Reason
Richter/Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak	Again, not too widespread outside of maybe GameFAQs. There is one video that received around 40k views, but these are a dime a dozen with literally any leak and the thirsty and oblivious portion of the Smash community.
LaPailleDor Leaks	Relatively obscure leak outside of Smashboards. Was disproven a little bit less than a month later.
Nintenderos Placeholder Rumor	Also relatively obscure leak. Also simply theory crafting about a strange occurrence on the website. The Kirby and Kid Icarus instances also contradicted the main theory anyways.
Nintendo Event at Arcade MTL	Same situation as Nintenderos. People assumed that a big reveal (or watch party) would occur at a random arcade in Montreal. There was no basis to this rumor other than wishful thinking.

So yeah, I'd appreciate hearing some thoughts and opinions on this. Pokebub (talk) 20:44, 4 January 2019 (EST)

I definitely support this. The page is very cluttered and in desperate need of some trimming, so this would be a very good move. Kbimbatti22 (talk) 00:44, 5 January 2019 (EST)

I wouldn't be against the removal of some of the less well-known ones. Some of them (especially some of the ones for Ultimate) were kinda dumb anyway. CardboardLuigi (talk) 08:15, 5 January 2019 (EST)

I'm in support of removing several of these leaks, however, did the IP Address user had the right to remove the sections per consensus tho when only 3 users are for removal? Just wondering, because I kinda thought it required more votes for them to be removed. -- Pancham (talk • contributions) 16:04, 5 January 2019 (EST)

I also support the removal of the rumors listed above, as some of them I never heard before and I doubt are really well-known outside of one website. But seeing how the IP already removed them, I guess this is pointless unless it gets undone. WolfBloodSpam (talk) 17:19, 5 January 2019 (EST)

I support removing only the ones from Ultimate, seeing as the Lucina rumor helped set the standard for comparing if it was actually a real update or not, similar to the Palutena hoax, and the Brawl rumors were actually a bit well-known at the time. --Tailikku (talk) 09:07, 6 February 2019 (EST)

Well, it's a bit late for that. From what I searched, I couldn't really find much info about them. I of course am not the only person with say on this, but if you can find results where a lot of people were discussing/debating the rumor then post it and more people might be inclined to consider adding them back. Pokebub (talk) 18:05, 6 February 2019 (EST)

Brave Instagram Post

There's a small edit war going on with this piece of trivia:
"On February 4th, 2019, Super Smash Bros. supervisor and HAL Laboratory employee Shinya Kumazaki made a post on Instagram showcasing a number of photos of Kirby next to Erdrick's shield from the Dragon Quest series. The post reads: "The brave's shield. そして伝説がはじまった！ (And thus, the legend started!)" This has lead many fans to speculate that Kumazaki is referring to the DLC character datamine that uncovered the codename "Brave" hidden away in its data, as Erdrick's Hero class, or "Yuusha," can also be translated as "Brave.""
I'm not sure whether this should really stay, because while other articles have talked about this, it's a big stretch and somewhat ambiguous. SugarCookie420 (talk) 20:30, 5 February 2019 (EST)

More people in the edit history were in support of keeping the trivia than removing it. Considering gaming websites were discussing it openly, it was worth keeping as a rumor. It's no more of a stretch than some of the other 'leaks' on the page. Funny that this was removed for not being an 'official reveal', but the Sora one was fine. Seems a bit of a double standard here. IPDude (talk) 22:05, 6 February 2019.

? Crocodile Dippy 2 (talk) 10:44, 6 February 2019 (EST)

They derived the reasoning for removing that rumor from one of my edits without knowing the context of why I said it to begin with- someone tried using that to definitively conclude who "Brave" was on the Datamine entry. I thought it was sound at the time, but if I knew people were going to be using that reasoning in edit wars, I would've never said it to begin with.
Plus as Miles From SmashWiki put it, Kumazaki-san's role as an original game supervisor is to make sure the Kirby content is represented correctly, and is otherwise not involved with the development of the game. CardboardLuigi (talk) 11:27, 6 February 2019 (EST)

The Sora one wasn't an official reveal, but it was made to seem like it was; people didn't know what Hashimoto meant when he said "yes" (did he mean "yes, he's in!" or "yes, we want him in!"?), so speculation arose.

In regards to this, we have a supervisor from the original Smash 64 team posting an image of Kirby and the shield from Dragon Quest, for seemingly no reason; in tandem with the caption and the recent datamine (that was patched out in 2.0.0), people are speculating as to whether or not Erdrick is actually in the game now. Both of these are rumors that should go on this page until confirmation (in which case they'd be moved to here). Aidan, the Rurouni 15:22, 6 February 2019 (EST)

Vergeben Updates

Since the page can't currently be accessed without admin approval, thought it would be worth adding to the Vergeben section that Vergeben has now doubled down on Erdrick. IPDude (talk) 21:21, 6 February 2019 (EST)

Looking at the entry, it seems any reaffirmation is documented only when it comes with another fighter. CardboardLuigi (talk) 08:06, 7 February 2019 (EST)

Should we split the vergeben lrumors like we did the gemastu and esrb rumors?

Vergeben is essentially the gemastu leak of Ultimate, being one of the primary source of rumors for Ultimate. I Support splitting his rumors off to their own page. Lou Cena (talk) 14:32, 9 February 2019 (EST)

I've made a page for Vergeben's leaks in the past, but it had been shut down because although it is big, it still isn't as infamously debated as Gematsu or gigantic as the ESRB leaks. SugarCookie 420 14:35, 9 February 2019 (EST)

I think Vergeban has gotten to the level of Gematsu and ESRB. He has hardly gotten anything wrong, so he's become a very credible leaker to the Smash community but his claim about a Square Enix rep is his most debatable leak because he was wrong about the Square rep being revealed first for DLC and Square's stingyness about Cloud's inclusion makes me doubt there'd be any more Square characters in Smash. And he still hasn't specified which Square character it is, so people are debating about that. I think Vergeban must be more notable now than when SugarCookie last made the page. SeanWheeler (talk) 16:11, 9 February 2019 (EST)

I agree this split should occur. The section about the Vergeben rumors has gotten so long, it has enough info to fill up its own page. -Operationgamer17 Operationgamer17 (talk) 10:56, 13 February 2019 (EST)

I believe in order for your proposal to succeed, you need to get past those who opposed it the most when I initially made the page, such as most of the administrators. Personally, I don't think it deserves to have its own page, and I believe its fine as it is. SugarCookie 420 11:19, 13 February 2019 (EST)

Also something to note is that this had already been talked about and there is a rough draft of it. SugarCookie 420 12:47, 21 February 2019 (EST)

About the Vergeben leak

Should we add the fact that the rumor’s detractors have expressed suspicion at it because of the fact that, lately, Vergeben has been posting his claims after it was already rumored. This isn’t just related to Smash, as I just found out that Vergeben posted info claiming there’s going to be a beta of the rumored Star Fox Grand Prix, 2 hours after Jon from GameXplain predicted it in a discussion video. -Operationgamer17 Operationgamer17 (talk) 10:39, 13 February 2019 (EST)

To be honest that seems like a stretch to me. He probably got the information from the same source, but posted about it after other people have already did. SugarCookie 420 10:47, 13 February 2019 (EST)

Star Fox Grand Prix? Didn't that game make rounds during E3 speculation? I thought they concluded it was fake after it wasn't revealed. More to the point, the whole "making claims after they were already rumored" thing was done a few times in the past as well. It's only noteworthy if he makes it noteworthy, from what I can tell. Not sure what the rest of SmashWiki believes on the matter, though. CardboardLuigi (talk) 11:16, 13 February 2019 (EST)

The fact that Vergeben was Wrong once means he is retroactively wrong forever and his section should be purged.

The fact that Loz18 was right by accident means he was right forever and Skull Kid is in Smash, Also he is a confirmed leaker and is our lord and savior. That is the Commandments of Smash Wiki —Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.56.148.18 (talk • contribs) 18:33, February 13, 2019

IP, watch it. You've been warned before.

Vergeben is still making claims. Loz18 made two claims, and one of them was right, and one of them was wrong. We note such. We don't put Vergeben on here because not all of his claims are proven right, because he's still making claims. Aidan, the Lovely Rurouni 18:40, 13 February 2019 (EST)

Also, IP, if you're such a Vergeben believer, you might want to check this out. Aidan, the Lovely Rurouni 18:45, 13 February 2019 (EST)

SKULL KID —Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.56.148.18 (talk • contribs) 19:38, February 13, 2019‎

Imagine being so salty about a wiki's policy that you resort to using a different rumor to attempt to call out a double standard that isn't there. CardboardLuigi (talk) 20:04, 13 February 2019 (EST)

Imagine being so salty about someone calling a fansite out on their bullshit that they erase anyone who says anything to the contrary. OR pretend that a leaker was always wrong when he was correct about everything until the base release, and then was wrong from there. But he was always wrong, loz was always right, Kraut Man Bad amirite? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.56.148.18 (talk • contribs) 00:05, February 21, 2019‎

You're missing the point here, IP. Loz made two separate claims: one correct, and one incorrect. And as such, the correct one is considered a leak, while the incorrect one is simply a rumor. Vergeben's leaks, on the other hand, is simply one continuous claim. While there's a number of things he got correct, not everything was proven right or wrong, and that's why it's still on this page. Vergeben will only be added to the "leaks" page if his remaining claims are proven correct. If they are proven wrong, then he'll likely stay on the list of rumors, much like the Gematsu leaks from the last game, which got a number of predictions right but got two predictions wrong. CardboardLuigi (talk) 08:28, 21 February 2019 (EST)

So Saint Loz18's claims are given special treatment that no other ones are. By that logic Vergeben should be put on the Leak page because of his claims of Simon Belmont, no characters being cut, and Incineroar.. But Kraut Man Bad so you won't do that. Heil Loz18. Skull Kid forever

Vergeben very openly is not a source. He has sources. So when he's wrong, that means one of his sources was wrong. He himself is never wrong nor right -- he shares information that sometimes is correct and sometimes isn't. The information on Star Fox Grand Prix and 2D Zelda being wrong says nothing about the Smash leaks because it's almost certainly from a completely different source. Same goes for all of his Smash information, actually; that's why he took so long to say who the Square character was. He had heard different things from different sources. All of his information should be taken with a grain of salt for this reason, but this also means that when he says something wrong, he isn't outright disproven.

That said, he has offered an explanation for the Square Enix character not being the first release, which I think should be added to the page. He said that Joker was moved up on the schedule so that his announcement could be at the Game Awards. Could be him backpedaling, but it's worth mentioning anyway. (I don't feel like finding the exact post but it's one of his more recent ones) TheNuttyOne 22:51, 13 February 2019 (EST)

But you see NuttyOne.. Even though that would be a fair and balanced thing to do.. as would taking discredited leakers off of the leak page.. What you don't get is... Kraut Man Bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.56.148.18 (talk • contribs) 00:05, February 21, 2019‎

I recall this explanation being on a draft for a separate page for Vergeben, but it seems nothing ever came of that page. CardboardLuigi (talk) 10:29, 21 February 2019 (EST)

You should probably add this in

At the end of "DLC character datamine" where the Instagram post is talked about, someone should add how Shinya Kumazaki later added "This picture has no meaning" to the description of the post. SugarCookie 420 18:56, 13 February 2019 (EST)

Erdrick/Luminary

When referring to rumoured Dragon Quest characters, would it be worth adding to mentions of the Luminary, that at the end of Dragon Quest XI, the Luminary earns the title of Erdrick? (Dragon Quest XI is itself a prequel of sorts to Dragon Quest III which features Erdrick/Loto) IPDude (talk) 03:31, 14 February 2019 (EST)

That doesn't have much connections to the rumor though. SugarCookie 420 08:28, 14 February 2019 (EST)

Well the Luminary is mentioned in both Vergeben and 5chan rumours, either being a character or alt costume. It's extra trivia worth pointing out, as the Luminary is technically Erdrick too.IPDude (talk) 08:31, 14 February 2019 (EST)

Brave can also be Agumon

I think we should consider this posibility, thought i barely see people talk about it, it actually make sense with the Brave Datamine (even the stats) His relation with Brave is strong, the Anime evolution theme is Brave Heart, his mega evolution, Wargreymon uses the Brave Shield and has The Crest of Courage in it. I think its worth being added to the list of rumored characters for Brave. ElGeo20 (talk) 00:09, 17 February 2019 (EST)

For all we know, Brave could be Adeleine, but is too uncommonly speculated to be worth documenting, much like how, as you said, the Digimon is rarely brought up in speculation. (Or at least this specific one)

Now that I think about it, I think the entry is the only time I've heard people speculate more than half of the characters listed there. CardboardLuigi (talk) 11:36, 18 February 2019 (EST)

About the Dragon Quest Shield

Kumazaka said it has no meaning. Chomper4 (talk) 15:22, 19 February 2019 (EST)

New datamined info

This post here showed that people were able to discover data among junk files. This should be part of the datamined info, as it may have leaked the Persona stage. SugarCookie 420 21:01, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Also, I'm bumping my previous request on adding information to the Dragon Quest shield and how Shinya Kumazaki said it had no meaning to it. SugarCookie 420 21:03, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Admins should definitely be updating the page with the new Dr. Hypecake Datamine. IPDude (talk) 04:15, 21 February 2019 (EST)