Talk:Kazuya (SSBU)
Do the characters Kazuya threw into the volcano reference other Tekken characters?
Was anybody else in Tekken thrown into an active volcano besides Heihachi and Kazuya? I initially thought the characters chosen were arbitrary, but then I realized that Ganondorf hasn't had a CG model in any Smash 4 or Ultimate trailer yet (he was in K. Rool's, but that was a still image), and Min Min's trailer was in a completely different animation style. I was thinking Ganondorf represents Heihachi, Min Min represents Xiaoyu, and Marth represents Yoshimitsu, but I don't know who Captain Falcon and Pit could relate to, and it still might be arbitrary. 72.219.72.215 05:08, June 16, 2021 (EDT)
- I think Ganondorf is a loose Heihachi analogue being the game's standard beefy human/gerudo villain while the rest are mostly arbitrary with Min Min and Kirby being chosen for the gags they bring. Guybrush20X6 (talk) 05:43, June 16, 2021 (EDT)
- Unless you're talking about adding a trivia point, this is not where you talk about this. SeanWheeler (talk) 11:02, June 16, 2021 (EDT)
Did Sakurai mean hitlag or hitstun?
For those who watched the presentation, at one point Sakurai said that Kazuya hardly has any hitstun. Unless my knowledge of the two terms is wrong, the animation afterwards shows Kazuya's attacks dealing hitlag when he hits them and they freeze before getting launched and then showing without hitlag when he hits them and they immediately get launched. I would think that hitsun would be necessary for his combos. Did he mean hitstun or hitlag (hitstop in other games I think)? SacredFire37 (talk) 11:38, June 28, 2021 (EDT)
- It's evident he means freeze frames, which our community calls "hitlag" but the translator chose to write as "hitstun". (This is why people shouldn't be using both terms, because they're so confusing together.) Toomai Glittershine
The Researcher 11:43, June 28, 2021 (EDT)
Vernacular for "Uncrouching Attack"
The broader FGC already has a term for this type of input, "While Standing" or "While Rising", abbreviated "WS" (because "WR" is instead understood to be "While Running"). As the input is inherited to Smash as a direct result of a Tekken character's inclusion, I think it would at least be prudent and respectful to use this pre-existing terminology on the wiki page, both for players getting involved in Smash from a prior background in Tekken and for players who decide to immerse themselves in Tekken after trying and enjoying Kazuya's Smash gameplay. DevNode (talk) 00:15, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
- Because Smash Bros. has floor attacks and edge attacks, both of which have been referred to as "standing" or "rising" attacks in the history of the Smash Bros. community, importing the term here is a poor and confusing choice. "Uncrouching" was selected due to its complete unambiguity, in addition to following the established pattern of naming moves after inputs. Toomai Glittershine Da Bomb 16:53, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
- I should also note that people can call it a "standing" or "rising" attack all they want in the prose of a page (and I don't think we'd be able to stop them without banning everyone). The one context this matters is in the explicitly formulaic name of the move for technical purposes. Toomai Glittershine The Victorious 17:11, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
General moveset table organization
People are going to be upset with me that I am enforcing a certain standard for how the moveset table here is structured. I will attempt to explain why here.
- It is far more difficult to merge any of these moves together than it is to keep them apart. For example, we cannot simply pretend the up-forward tilt and down-forward tilt are simply angled variations of the forward tilt (like Little Mac's or Peach's f-smash), because they have a different number of segments. Therefore, it makes the most sense to keep them apart, and make a note of things such as sharing staleness slots (if it turns out that is the case).
- Having extra tables for extra moves (like the command inputs) is not desired because it breaks up "the moveset table" into multiple parts that will therefore have different column widths (which tends to look messy) and have prose jammed between screen-width tables (which is also messy). Yes I'm aware some other characters like Ken already do this. I have a plain to fix them too, at the same time as when I can modify the main template to handle the Kazuya stuff.
I will revisit this organization once the character is out and we have the technical data. Toomai Glittershine The Polychromatic 17:21, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
- I've made an attempt to extend one of the moveset templates in my sandbox. It works on #loops and it should work on fighters with any number of non-standard attacks. I also tried #forargs but ran into an edge-case where (for fighters with multiple inputs like Link's FSmash or Kazuya's everything), something like "extratiltdamage123" could be read as input #23 on extra #1 or input #3 on extra #12 (the attempt can be seen in a comment). --CanvasK (talk) 18:30, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
- I don't know, in my opinion, the table looks really confusing and hard to read with all the moves in separate rows. It'll look even worse when each of the moves start having paragraphs for descriptions. I think for the sake of readability that we group them together, with the obvious note that the grouping is not official. Additionally, most of the moveset tables have always really only comprised the standard moves or moves that can be grouped into those standard moves, other moves and mechanics are usually put in separate tables below. A paragraph about those non-standard moves / mechanics above a designated table makes it easier for people who are unfamiliar with the character and their moves/mechanics to understand them, so I don't think it makes it look messy. If column width is a problem, it can always be changed in the editor. If the template can be redone entirely to comprise standard and non-standard movesets while also keeping it consistent and readable and understandable, I'm for it, the moveset template has also been a bit messy especially when it comes to characters like this. I am also of the opinion that we should wait until we get all the technical information to make any kind of accurate grouping, if there are any.--MontztheMan (talk) 20:34, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
Now that we have the data, I think it is safe to say that the current grouping and naming is about as correct as it's going to get. The extra moves do not have any more or less importance than the typical moves, and testing gives evidence that nothing shares staleness and thus should not be squeezed into sharing rows. The general moveset table template is planned to be updated to reflect this within a couple days. Toomai Glittershine The Loony 17:24, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
Why can’t we edit
Just wondering, as I had found out the damage output for the sweetspot in his forward smash (24.5% uncharged) when Sakurai landed it uncharged and wanted to add it, but I can’t MetaKnightX6 (talk) 17:57, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
- The page has been protected as is standard for the subjects of new and recent releases. Users can still edit if they meet the account age and edit count criteria. Toomai Glittershine The Awesome 18:02, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
On another note, adding damage percentages and frame data from pre-release footage is usually discouraged. Just wait for the final release, it's only a few hours away. Rdrfc (talk) 18:19, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
Who do Ryu and Lucario represent in the classic mode route?
I can safely assume Little Mac is Steve Fox (boxing), Captain Falcon is Howarang (biker), DK and K Rool are Roger and Alex (similar types of animals), the Miis are the generic Tekken Force soldiers, and the Kazuya at the end is Jin, but I can't tell who Lucario and Ryu are. I noticed Ryu did a lot of Tatsumakis, so he might represent Eddy Gordo, and considering Lucario is based on an Anubis, I'm thinking the Egyptian fighter Zafina (plus her Tekken 7 moveset features her using a demon's power in a similar way to what Aura looks like), but I'm not too sure about those. 68.4.176.97 23:03, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
- Bumping this since the table was added with no mention of said references, particularly the obvious two (DK/K Rool to Roger/Alex and Little Mac to Steve Fox). 68.4.176.97 02:04, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
Input for Gates of Hell is incorrect
Wanted to edit myself but the page is locked. The command input for Gates of Hell is down-right, down, down-right the page states it's right, right. Volpeony (talk) 23:25, June 29, 2021 (EDT)
- Fixed, thanks for pointing it out. Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 00:17, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
Bionic-Mii reference
If they are a reference to Tekken 4, then they are meant to stand in for Heihachi's Zaibatus forces, who Kaz beat up in the trailer. Makes no sense for it to be the corp that revived him.--95.223.73.154 09:18, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
Want to add something but can’t, so can someone else please add this for me
To his forward smash I would like to add: ‘Overall the second strongest forward smash in the game, narrowly beating Ganondorf’s and just about allowing King Dedede to maintain the title’ MetaKnightX6 (talk) 13:22, June 30, 2021 (EDT)
Kazuya's jump squat is 6, not 7.
Since we can't edit, letting you know here.
