User talk:Alex the weeb/Archive 4

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Dude...

You just can’t stand to hear any slander about Jigglypuff. This is not my opinion but it is a largely considered fact by pretty much everyone. Dab Squad Leader (talk) 17:32, March 11, 2019 (EDT)

Before you go and write messages on other users' talk pages, I suggest you actually take the time to read the edit summaries of the edits you are responding to. Your edit did not follow the Manual of Style, it restated already stated information, and you violated SW:1RV. Please take some time to rethink your behaviour on the wiki, as your attitude on your talk page and other users' talk pages has not been acceptable. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 17:36, March 11, 2019 (EDT)

What started information are you talking about? The page never included largely evidence based opinions in the article. Also, who do you think you are, talking to me about how I should talk to people. Hello, you are not my parents or even an admin.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dab Squad Leader (talk • contribs) 13:41, March 11, 2019

"Jigglypuff is currently ranked 55th out of 55 on the tier list, placing it at the bottom of the G tier and the entire tier list itself."

Also your edit was not evidence based, you provided no citation or source for your claim. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 17:44, March 11, 2019 (EDT)

Hey, no personal attacks. Also, please stop this rude behavior (Alex this is towards Dab). SugarCookie 420 17:46, March 11, 2019 (EDT)

Apologies

I tried to undo some really unnecessary edits from dabsquadleader, but accidentally edited it on older versions, my bad. RandomUltimate (talk) 16:43, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

Ah, no worries then. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 16:46, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

SSBU Luigi's Ftilt (replying here because it won't fit in an edit summary)

Smash 4 Ftilt has 2 BKB and 100 KBG. On a target with 100 weight (I usually use Cloud), that starts tumbling at 77.8%, and according to the Sm4sh calculator, kills starting at 242.42% from the center of Final Destination (Wii U). I tested in-game to make sure and it's very close (no more than a 5% difference, and the red bolt appears later than the kill percent as usual), so the calculator is accurate. Meanwhile, his Ultimate Ftilt tumbles starting at 19.6% as I mentioned (also on Cloud, meaning it has a large increase to BKB), and starts killing at 211% from the center of FD, with the red bolt appearing at 221%. I didn't bother checking decimals, but that's still a substantial increase from 242.42%.

These results are from the latest versions of both games, obviously. That said, I can't see how you're getting a different result. If you're still doubtful, you could maybe ask a dataminer for Luigi's Ftilt KB values in Ultimate. 034.png DracoRex, Creator of the Land 18:26, March 19, 2019 (EDT)

I was using the Smash Ultimate calculator with the Smash 4 values (the website uses KH data and he hasn't added Smash 4 Luigi yet), and at higher percents the knockback dealt is virtually unchanged, and eventually even falls below the SSB4 value. It's possible that it KOs earlier in some circumstances, but it isn't reliably stronger like your edit would suggest. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 18:30, March 19, 2019 (EDT)
Ok, I checked the Smash Ultimate calculator, and with 9% damage and the same KB values as in Smash 4, it says it kills at 215.94%. With 8% damage (Smash 4's), it kills at 239.58%. Still increased power compared to the Smash 4 version. My point in the page was that his Ultimate Ftilt in general still KOs earlier (and by a substantial amount) than his Smash 4 one (with the Smash 4 values). The 'nerf' you added implies it still KOs at the same percent as in Smash 4. Maybe that's not what you meant, but the line needs changed either way since it's erroneously labeling something that isn't a nerf (because if it doesn't KO later than in Smash 4, it's not nerfed) as one. 034.png DracoRex, Creator of the Land 18:44, March 19, 2019 (EDT)

This

To my knowledge, it was changed - somewhere out there in the big wide world of the internet exists a video showing that it can't be done anymore. Maybe it got changed, I don't know (and I don't have any way of confirming it right now), but I'm fairly certain it's no longer doable. Aidan, the Springing Rurouni 15:00, April 11, 2019 (EDT)

I'm running 2.0.2 and I literally just checked it, it still works. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 15:02, April 11, 2019 (EDT)
Hmm. Then they probably changed it back. Aidan, the Springing Rurouni 15:09, April 11, 2019 (EDT)
Seems more likely that they never removed it in the first place. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 15:17, April 11, 2019 (EDT)

35.136.139.150

...is a sockpuppet of 35.136.168.227. I don't think he'll listen, and I've reported him a few hours ago. SugarCookie 420 12:11, April 17, 2019 (EDT)

I am aware, but I'm not sure if we have enough evidence just yet. It will be interesting to see how he responds, if at all. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 12:14, April 17, 2019 (EDT)
Best I can say is matching IP locations and same responses in edit summaries. SugarCookie 420 12:15, April 17, 2019 (EDT)
On a separate note, good luck on the A-Levels. SugarCookie 420 12:16, April 17, 2019 (EDT)

Slash

Hi there. I've noticed you think Incineroar's forward tilt in Ultimate causes the slash effect even thought the slash indicator is not seen? What makes you so sure about that? Juju1995 (talk) 11:28, April 19, 2019 (EDT)

Wording on Jigglypuff's page

Hey, I've been trying for a while to make the same type of change have consistent wording across all fighter pages.

The wording I reverted it to on Jigglypuff's SSBU page was the one I changed it to for other pages too and because I don't want to look through every fighter's page again to look where I used it but still wanna keep it consistent, I was wondering if you really can't accept it.

Because the one I use technically has more information than yours. It says reduced startup, same endlag and reduced duration. Yours just removes the clarification on the endlag being the same. Otherwise it's the same.

Please? I just want everything to be consistent. Otherwise it'll annoy me forever. Ray001 (talk) 16:51, April 19, 2019 (EDT)

My bad

I saw the changes on the Peach Bomber page. My apologies. I didn't know that "rear" was the preferred term. Now that I know, I won't try to change it anymore. Now that I look back, it does seem strange for me to use anatomical body part names for Nintendo characters. LOL 😂. Well, have a good one, and keep up the good work. Thecontributor22 (talk) 01:27, May 26, 2019 (EDT)

This

That doesn't change the fact that it's going against a policy. Aidan, the Rurouni 12:51, June 8, 2019 (EDT)

In your opinion it goes against policy, but this is somewhat of a gray area and I have yet to see a convincing argument from you that it really does violate policy. That's what you're supposed to be arguing for but you're not doing so. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 12:53, June 8, 2019 (EDT)
It is specifically an admin's job to interpret policies, currently, all admins involve agree that using the names goes against policy, so it does. SerpentKing 12:57, June 8, 2019 (EDT)

Stop edit warring

Both me and AwesomeLink told you that no other table merges Echo Fighters, yet you keep merging them back. Lou Cena (talk) 15:08, June 25, 2019 (EDT)

Sorry...I didn't think to check the page history so I didn't realize I was overwriting your edits. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 15:18, June 25, 2019 (EDT)

How can you just claim that the old are "better (and clearer)"? (Jigglypuff's page)

Like, that does not make sense to me. It said that the knockback scaling of a move that clearly deals no knockback was increased. Even if it's programmed like that, it's not actually knockback so that will just cause confusion for no reason. Then I removed the unnecessary info that "the hits" have less startup lag (because what else could have less startup lag? It must be the hits, so mentioning it is not necessary) and I even specified that even with mashing Jigglypuff is safe, which is important in practice but you just undid it even though it's correct.Ray001 (talk) 15:02, July 5, 2019 (EDT)

The move carries out the knockback formula as normal, it's the sleep effect that puts characters to sleep rather than launching them, much like how the bury effect buries opponents but knockback is still dealt, it's just expressed differently. The rest of the wording just came off as confusing. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 15:05, July 5, 2019 (EDT)

Oh, that

Yeah, that's me, I mainly wanted to use the account to keep track of something and do real edits as an IP.

I'll log in, though. Sorry for the trouble. 73.220.19.65 16:02, July 21, 2019 (EDT)

Super Sheet

So is there a change in Super Sheet between updates? I may have jumped the gun on the other reversions (though I'm sure Ness's PK Flash wasn't changed in 1.1) but I've seen reversions over Super Sheet's multiplier and properties similar to the ones the IP added. CookiesCnC Signature.pngCreme 11:41, July 25, 2019 (EDT)

The reflection hitbox was known to be changed, but the values weren't known. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 11:42, July 25, 2019 (EDT)

This

Is this another case of this? Aidan, the Rurouni 17:43, July 30, 2019 (EDT)

Oh, this must be what confused me [1]. I just remembered that an IP kept trying to change the name... Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 17:47, July 30, 2019 (EDT)
Maybe pay a bit more attention to your edits, yeah? Aidan, the Rurouni 17:53, July 30, 2019 (EDT)

Sockpuppets

For your information I'm not a MM3 sockpuppet, this guy has been irritating me for the past few months with his edit warring. I'm the other person who got mad at him a few months ago and then apologised, my internet makes a new IP everytime I turn it on. Now call me memoryman all you want, I don't like this fake accusation. --93.108.115.167 15:08, August 9, 2019 (EDT)

Perhaps we should look at the facts. You have similar behaviour on the site as MemoryMan, you have a similar attitude towards Zakawer, you both put 2 hyphens before your signature, and your IP changes very dramatically, which is not typical of what happens with ISPs. I'd also like to add that even if you are not MemoryMan, your behaviour on the site is still unacceptable, and I would strongly recommend you have a read of our policies, particularly regarding use of talk pages. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 15:40, August 9, 2019 (EDT)

That doesn't prove anything and regarding the talk page issue what exactly did I do? I was warning him that of his stubborn behavior regarding edits. How does that infringe talk page policy? --93.108.115.167 15:49, August 9, 2019 (EDT)

Hero's fall speed

I am sorry man but you can't keep reverting my edit without providing a counterfactual source that Hero's fall speed is increased by that much (instead of decreased). I even went in training mode to check empirically and you could tell with the naked eye that he obviously doesn't fall faster than Fox. Still, I am willing to accept I am wrong if it is factual evidence that I am, but so far you haven't provided any, while I did provide a source that his fall speed is decreased. Rdrfc (talk) 07:01, August 27, 2019 (EDT)

Your source is blatantly wrong, and in fact he does fall faster than fox, he just has a lower gravity stat so it takes him longer to reach that speed. The fall speed data was found using wind zones (1 unit of wind strength = 0.02 movement speed) and floaty jump equipment to half Hero's fall speed. The value I got was as near as makes no difference 50% greater than his base fall speed (and since all of the other movement values were multiplied by a 1.d.p multiplier it's fair to assume that the fall speed multiplier is in fact 1.5x). Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 07:32, August 27, 2019 (EDT)
OK, I believe it. Rdrfc (talk) 08:02, August 27, 2019 (EDT)

Dedede back air possible change?

Hello Alex! I've recently seen many of your changes to King Dedede's SSBU page. Now this topic isn't entirely about what you added but just a conversation about other things too. I remember in Smash 4 when Dedede's shorthop bair allowed the player to jump before touching the ground. But that no longer seems to apply. I couldn't find any info regarding this topic so I would like to ask you if you know any possible reasons why this could be the case. --98.151.46.222 00:56, September 18, 2019 (EDT)

This would most likely be a consequence of his higher gravity stat. Because of it, he lands from a short hop 2 frames sooner, but Bair's ending lag wasn't reduced, so he's no longer able to do so. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 04:15, September 18, 2019 (EDT)
Wow you've already changed the web page.

--98.151.46.222 23:04, September 18, 2019 (EDT)

Request on grab range.

Hello Alex! This is the same person who contacted you about Dedede's back air! (I finally made an account) I checked out your user page and you typed "I test stuff a lot, so if you ever need anything tested, let me know (because testing stuff is my life)." So I would like to make a request on every character's grab range ranked. I would like to see these rankings because I know a good amount of characters had the grab range changed. So, do you think you're up for the task? BTW, I sent a friend request on discord if you want to talk more there. --Thermallax (talk) 20:31, October 6, 2019 (EDT)

One last move request (I hope)...

Sorry to bother you yet again about this, but... Kuome & Kotake's page still needs one last move. It should be Koume & Kotake; the first witch's name is currently spelled incorrectly. --PeabodySam (talk) 14:15, November 30, 2019 (EST)

Geez I'm really off my game today. Hopefully this will fix everything... Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 14:18, November 30, 2019 (EST)
Well... copy/pasting the article is certainly one way to do it. I couldn't make the move myself due to the preexisting redirect causing move conflicts, and I figured we'd want to retain the page's edit history, but... hey, it works. Thanks for your help, and (again) sorry to keep bothering you! --PeabodySam (talk) 14:21, November 30, 2019 (EST)

Thank you!

Thank you for the welcome! I appreciate it. Look forward to work with you too! Revbecca (talk) 09:58, December 10, 2019 (EST)

No problem! Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 10:00, December 10, 2019 (EST)

Spin shot issues

Hi trainer Alex, I have seen that you listed my wiki in the delete page. I want to inform you that spin shot is an advanced technique, you probably think it is "spin jump" that is the regular sonic's side special but this is not, it requires a spécial input and is considered by the community as an advanced technique

My apologies for this, but this time it's not an error and you should read this another time to understand why

And sorry for my english, I'm not from an english-speaking country Eknoa (talk) 10:06, December 23, 2019 (EST)

I am well aware of what you are referring to, and it has been known about for quite some time. Even if it was deserving of its own article and not just a section in the Spin Dash and Charge articles, which I would argue it isn't, the article you have created is horrendously formatted and worded. I understand that this is not entirely your fault, but in its current state the article really isn't fit for the Wiki. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 10:14, December 23, 2019 (EST)

I can understand, so can you please telling me what needs to be changed ? I am not that experimented and I just want to progress and contribute to smash wiki Eknoa (talk) 10:28, December 23, 2019 (EST)

Spring slope test

What is the 'spring slope test' that you mentioned in your recent edit for Spirits? I'd love to use it to test if any other abilities affect gravity. CanvasK (talk) 14:25, January 28, 2020 (EST)

Spring jump forces are very poorly adjusted for gravity stats in Ultimate, as the game just adds on a fixed amount of additional force rather than using a multiplier on the base force. Because of this, low-power springs send fighters with higher gravity stats much higher than those with lower gravity stats. By using the springs in stage builder without holding jump to use the higher force spring jump, you can get a huge jump height discrepency caused by the gravity stat. As a result, if you set up a gradual slope above a line of these springs, you can determine roughly how a fighter's gravity stats compare to other fighter's stats from which spring allows each fighter to land as high up on the slope as they can, and by making the slope progressively more and more gradual you can narrow it down to which fighter or fighters most closely match the gravity stat you observe. In this case, giving Falco any number of floaty jump spirits, his gravity stat (usually 0.13) becomes marginally lower than King K. Rool's gravity stat (0.105). 0.105/0.13 = 0.807, marginally higher than 0.8 (which is expected because the correct gravity stat is marginally lower than 0.195). Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 14:33, January 28, 2020 (EST)
And the only factor is gravity? Interesting. I just did a quick test with Charizard and Meta Knight and they landed in the same spot and at the same time, same gravity but vastly different weight and falling speed. I'll give it a go and update the table later. Thanks! CanvasK (talk) 15:02, January 28, 2020 (EST)

User rename

Your username has been successfully changed from "Trainer Alex" to "Alex the weeb" as per your request. Please remember that you are responsible for fixing any double redirects that this may have caused. Thanks! SerpentKing 17:42, January 28, 2020 (EST)

Home-Run Contest Chrom and Roy

Unless the info is false, the table says that Roy needs a critical charge, while Chrom only needs to fully charge. Flare Blade I believe is stronger if you release it a little before fully charging it, similarly to Eruption. Plus, no other table merges Echo Fighters like that, so even if they have the same requirements, it looks odd and out of place. 72.203.118.154 16:49, February 19, 2020 (EST)

No, both conditions apply to both fighters. There is no functional difference between Roy and Chrom's Flare Blade. Alex the Weeb 16:51, February 19, 2020 (EST)
Ah that makes sense. The table just had wrong info. Even so, wouldn't it make more sense to not have it in the same boxes anyways? None of the other tables lump characters into the same boxes, regardless of if the move or number is the same between them. Wouldn't keeping Chrom and Roy in the same box be inconsistent with this? 72.203.118.154 16:55, February 19, 2020 (EST)
The table's info is correct. It lists both conditions in the same box with both characters. And this situation is a bit different since we're talking about the exact same move. We don't have a separate article for Roy and Chrom's Flare Blade either. Alex the Weeb 16:58, February 19, 2020 (EST)

Do you mind?

I would like to have a heart to heart talk with you and discuss about the block of my account as well as my expulsion from the Discord server. Do you mind? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.18.11.200 (talk • contribs) 02:17, 2020 February 23‎

Alex is not an admin so he wasn't responsible, don't bother him about it. You did this to yourself by ignoring our warnings. 001Toad.jpg OmegαToαd64 05:22, February 23, 2020 (EST)
Also I'll be leavung a message on you talk in case you didn't know about something. 001Toad.jpg OmegαToαd64 07:10, February 23, 2020 (EST)

Throwing type

I'm trying to keep the type pages strict to that type. If Type=X, then it goes there; If not, then it won't. Both Isabelle and Ridley have attacks with throw-like properties but don't go through shields, only reason why Isabelle is listed is because her attack has Type=Throw. I would argue that the wording on the Throw (type) page is a little misleading and should be changed. And I think Skewer would fit better under Grab#Hitboxes that can grab just like Isabelle's Fishing Rod. --CanvasK (talk) 12:05, March 4, 2020 (EST)

Skewer isn't a hit-grab as far as I know though. Maybe there should be 2 sections, one for throw types and one for throw kinds. It's pretty misleading to exclude a large number of non-grab throw attacks because they use a different type, when throw kind is arguably more important, as it has a greater effect on gameplay. Alex the Weeb 12:09, March 4, 2020 (EST)
I won't disagree that throw (kind) could have its own listing somewhere. But I don't feel it is appropriate to have throw (kind) on the page throw (type). We've already had that issue with spin (type) and body (type), and I've encountered examples of knee attacks not being knee (types), or elbow, or head, etc. and I've removed them because those pages are for a specific game mechanic, not an arbitrary list of what things look like (like List of firearms).--CanvasK (talk) 12:20, March 4, 2020 (EST)

This

First of all, I entirely understood what the edit was doing, and I was going to change up a sentence in the first paragraph to satisfy the change I wished to make.

Second of all, it is not a "major" change, it is getting rid of something redundant and unnecessary, which isn't what consensus is for. Aidan, the Rurouni 17:20, March 10, 2020 (EDT)

Removing multiple columns from the table, and completely changing the way the information is conveyed, as well as the appearance of the table, absolutely is a major change. It is also a change that I happen to disagree with, so should there be a discussion on the matter I plan on explaining why the table is fine the way it is. Alex the Weeb 17:26, March 10, 2020 (EDT)
An aesthetically big change that removes unnecessary space from a page is not the same as making a major change. But if you want to have a discussion, then have my reasoning: if there's really only four spirits that can be unlocked via a challenge, and one that can be unlocked via amiibo, and the rest are entirely normal, then why shouldn't there be a disclaimer sentence in the beginning of the article saying so, instead of a giant table filled with Xs and checkmarks? Aidan, the Rurouni 17:28, March 10, 2020 (EDT)
This is not the place for the discussion on whether the change is good or not to occur, but your points appear to address at why the change shouldn't need consensus at all, so I will explain here why they are all flawed. Firstly, a major aesthetic change is absolutely a major change, and calling the table columns "unnecessary space" is subjective, and thus is something which would have to be established in the discussion. You have neglected to consider that there are multiple Fighter Spirits which cannot be unlocked through classic mode, and whether or not the IP thinks it is "obvious" is also a subjective opinion. You have also assumed that there will never be any other fighter spirits that become available through Amiibo, or that there may be other changes which require your disclaimer to become longer. Finally, whether the information is better portrayed in table form or as a disclaimer is debatable. Every aspect of both yours and the IP's reasons for making the change are subjective, and thus since the change is major, it needs a consensus. Alex the Weeb 17:40, March 10, 2020 (EDT)
"You have neglected to consider that there are multiple Fighter Spirits which cannot be unlocked through classic mode"
No, I didn't, and neither did the page. It directly states that all alternate costume Spirits can be unlocked through the Vault Shop (which they can) and all regular Fighter Spirits can be unlocked via Classic Mode (which they can). Me not mentioning it doesn't mean I didn't consider it.
"You have also assumed that there will never be any other fighter spirits that become available through Amiibo, or that there may be other changes which require your disclaimer to become longer."
For someone calling me out on assumptions, you yourself are assuming a lot of things. I always take the future into consideration, and if something like this changes in the future, then that is when it shall be changed; should the icons need to come back, then so be it. Aidan, the Rurouni 18:13, March 10, 2020 (EDT)

While I would file this one under "Basic article layout and style changes" which by SW:CONSENSUS generally does not require consensus, the policy also states "These actions generally do not require consensus in most cases, unless the action is directly disputed by another user", so Aidan, because this is being disputed, you will have to take it to the talk page. Flip side: you are both in violation of SW:WAR here. I don't want anymore reversions on this until it is settled. SerpentKing 18:25, March 10, 2020 (EDT)

Questions About Knockback

First, sorry if I typed this wrong. I'm new and trying to figure out how to edit pages the best I can. I don't know if this is how I'm suppose to talk to you or not or if I'm vandalizing or something, so sorry in advance. Second, Can you explain by your sentence "In Ultimate, characters' falling speeds and gravity are homogenized for moves that launch at angles between 70° and 110°, making the effect negligible." in my eyes, it's not very clear and uses a little to big words in it. If you could elaborate, then I hope we can either make your sentence more clear or just clear my confusion —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Holy Woomy (talk • contribs) 14:58, March 13, 2020

Fighters have different fall speeds and gravity during hitstun from knockback between these angles, and these gravity values are used instead for the gravity penalty calculation in those cases. Every character has a temporary fall speed of 1.8 and a gravity stat much closer to 0.075 (although there is still some minor variance). Alex the Weeb 19:03, March 13, 2020 (EDT)
So what your saying is that if the launch angle is between 70° and 110°, the gravity of the fighter will be added to the knockback instead of (g - 0.075) * 5 (The Holy Wooomy) —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Holy Woomy (talk • contribs) 15:14, March 13, 2020
What? No...the same formula is used, the gravity stats are different. Alex the Weeb 19:16, March 13, 2020 (EDT)
Then what are the different gravity stats? 0.075? (The Holy Wooomy) —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Holy Woomy (talk • contribs) 15:31, March 13, 2020
I don't know the values off by heart, but you can find them here. Alex the Weeb 19:33, March 13, 2020 (EDT)

Thank you. I'll look over things and figure out something. In the meantime, I have another question though it's not about knockback. How do I edit my page? It says that I'm not allowed to —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Holy Woomy (talk • contribs) 15:42, March 13, 2020

See SW:AUTO for details. Alex the Weeb 19:44, March 13, 2020 (EDT)
Thank you once again (The Holy Wooomy) —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Holy Woomy (talk • contribs) 15:49, March 13, 2010

Does the gravity formula affect knockback or the launch speed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Holy Woomy (talk • contribs) 17:19, March 13, 2020

Launch speed. Alex the Weeb 06:12, March 14, 2020 (EDT)
Also might as well mention a few things.
To Holy Woomy: When talking on talk pages you need to sign your comments. Just use 4 tildes ~~~~ and you're good.
To Alex: Just a heads up that your talk page is gettin kinda full (it just passed 36,000 bytes) so ya might want to archive it soon. 001Toad.jpg OmegαToαd the Toαd Wαrrior (BUP) 06:36, March 14, 2020 (EDT)
Thank you Alex the Weeb for more info and OmegaToad for signatures The Holy Wooomy 13:48, March 14 2020 (UTC)

The recent undo on Daisy Blossom

I was refering to here where it was decided not to split. However looking at it now that proposal seemed more like splitting/merging all pages in general, not exclusively Daisy Blossom.

For Daisy Blossom's case I would support splitting because it's functionally identical to Peach's, but at the same time this would be inconsistant with other FS pages, because we don't have two differently named FS pages merged (but still Starstorm is on one page despite Lucas's functionally different than Ness's). 001Toad.jpg OmegαToαd the Toαd Wαrrior (BUP) 08:09, April 4, 2020 (EDT)

This is not something that a sweeping decision can be made on, Daisy Blossom should have its own discussion. We merge all of Daisy's other specials, and Final Smashes are not immune to merging. Alex the Weeb 08:17, April 4, 2020 (EDT)

Marth Tipper Stale

Hey, it says on your userspace that testing things is your life. I was wondering if you could test if damage staling is universal between tippered and non-tippered hits on Marth. An example would be non-tipper forward air hit does 9%, next time it does 8.5%, and a tipper does 14%, if you hit the non-tipper would it lessen the damage on the tipper as well? Thanks --monokuro Cloud (SSBU) [talk • contributions] 10:07, April 24, 2020 (EDT)

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