Talk:Alternate costume (SSB4)/Archive 2

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1. 1

Regarding Charizard's "Aerodactyl" color

Looking at the link given in an attempt to justify said color, Aerodactyl's wings are a more saturated purple while Charizard's wings don't have that same saturation. In fact, I sampled Charizard's wing color and it's more of a reddish purple compared to Aerodactyl's bluish purple. I admit the whiter tone in later generations does match this color, but overall I feel the wing color is what stops this from resembling Aerodactyl. I'm taking it off. P.S. Aerodactyl's eyes are green while this Charizard has aqua eyes for said color. They change slightly between colors. Dragon5 (talk) 21:20, 3 November 2014 (EST)

I agree. Aerodactyl is definitely more of a purplish grey anyhow, and the wings don't match. It may just not be based off of anything, or it may just be a progression of Charizard's white Pokemon Trainer alt from Brawl. Banryu (talk) 19:25, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Pit's Cyan alt - Thanatos?

This might be a bit of a stretch, but in looking at [the Thanatos trophy] in the game, I think Pit's 'cyan' alt might be based on him. The shade of aqua is a bit bright to be compared to his skin, but looking at the other colors of the palette, Pit has a purple scarf and wings and orange... uh... (kilt...?) which slightly resemble Thanatos' scarf and pants. Again, it might be a stretch, but the colors seem so deliberately chosen and I have no idea what else it might be based on. Banryu (talk) 19:21, 8 November 2014 (EST)

I see a slight resemblance, but shouldn't say that it's based in Thanatos; that would be speculation, which isn't allowed in the mainspace. However, you can say that the palette swap resembles Thanatos; there's a difference between the two words, you know. Rtzxy Reflect!!! 19:25, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Well, there you go. Still, I say that if it was deliberately made to resemble him, it's probably based off him. But of course since I have no way of affirming whether it was based on him... *shrug* Let the jury do as it may. Banryu (talk) 19:26, 8 November 2014 (EST)

"I say that if it was deliberately made to resemble him, it's probably based off him. "

How do you know it was deliberately made to resemble him? It could just be a simple coincidence, and saying that anyways would be like saying "Donkey Kong has a white palette swap, so it must be based off of Eddie the Yeti from his short-lived TV series" (it isn't, by the way) or something like that. Also, sorry if I'm coming off like an a** (I don't like swearing unless it's to quote someone or it's a name), but you get the point. Rtzxy Reflect!!! 19:34, 8 November 2014 (EST)

I wouldn't say that you're coming across as an @$$, but I would say that you're coming across as someone who didn't read everything I said. I conceded that I don't know if the resemblance to Thanatos is deliberate, and I have nothing else really to say on the matter. If the mods deem it worth a mention in the article, fine. If not, fine. I'm done with the bickering on semantics, though, we're off-topic enough by now. Banryu (talk) 22:44, 8 November 2014 (EST) :Yeah, we should set this argument aside. I will say that I misunderstood you, and I'm sorry for that. Now, back on topic, you can probably add that Pit's purple costume resembles Thanatos, because there is a resemblance between the two, but don't put anything that says it's based off him. OK? Rtzxy Reflect!!! 22:49, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Check that. I didn't do my research that good. As it turns out, Thanatos looks nothing like Pit, with no resemblance in colors whatsoever. So, I wouldn't add that the palette swap resembles him; he's just too different. Rtzxy Reflect!!! 22:55, 8 November 2014 (EST)

You might notice I haven't edited anything on the main page yet, I was bringing it up here first. Yeah, I agree the resemblance is not nearly as strong in his official art, I had noticed that. The trophy was mainly what gave me the idea, but like I said earlier, it might be too much of a stretch. Oh well. *shrug* Banryu (talk) 20:37, 9 November 2014 (EST)

Regarding Recent Changes

Toomai, I'm wondering why you deleted the Mewtwo section, as well as what the unconfirmed tab that you added means? Gpev96 (SHAZAM!) (talk) 14:42, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Until we actually know something about Mewtwo there's no point in having him. And the unconfirmed tab will eventually contain the color each swap represents in the Find Mii stage, or the Tournament in Wii U ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 14:47, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Thanks for clearing that upGpev96 (SHAZAM!) (talk) 15:18, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Cleanup?

What does the cleanup note mean? Where are the "claimed sources"? Kenniky 18:32, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Find Mii Colors

I hate to make two discussion posts right after one another, but 1) where's the source that states that the powerups on Find Mii are color-based and 2) why is Green Yoshi classified as Chartreuse? Where'd that info come from? It'd make more sense if he was Green.

Sorry if I'm being a bit nitpicky, but we can't really claim something without a source... Kenniky 18:39, 12 November 2014 (EST)

See this previous discussion.

As for your second question, I happen to know that red Yoshi and red Kirby match, but green Yoshi and green Kirby don't. Therefore, they're not the same shade of green, and Kirby is darker, so Yoshi's the other one. Toomai Glittershine The Spectrum 20:51, 12 November 2014 (EST)

The actual color name for Miis (using Find Mii and Tomodachi Life as the name source) is Light Green. PikaSamus (talk) 20:56, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Bearing in mind that were startinga Find Mii colors column, should the defaults that aren't clearly one color or another just be named Default. Like Fox's Grey, Falco's white, and Ike's Tan. I mean Tan, really... Allsalts (talk) 17:56, 13 November 2014 (EST)

Ok, thanks. Wasn't really sure where that came from. I might do some testing eventually using characters like Yoshi, Kirby, and the Mii Fighters (guys why didn't we use the Mii Fighters from the beginning it would have been a lot easier :P) Kenniky Talk 21:11, 13 November 2014 (EST)

Have people not been using Mii Fighters? I have been the whole time, which I think gives more accurate results. It's always possible there was a data-entry error, so the further a test is from being tested against Mii, the more likely it is to be wrong. --SnorlaxMonster 06:33, 15 November 2014 (EST)

I started by comparing the reds and greens of Yoshi and Kirby, discovering that the greens were different while the reds were the same. I did use a Mii at some point to confirm, but I mostly just chain-reacted from there. Toomai Glittershine The Aurum 10:51, 15 November 2014 (EST)

Kirby's 8th color?

Isn't Kirby's 8th palette based on "Shadow Kirby", the final boss of Kirby Triple Deluxe's "Kirby Fighters" minigames? 68.119.28.72 22:26, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Shadow Kirby is a light purple. PikaSamus (talk) 22:28, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Ganondorf's Grey Colour

I was about to edit Ganondorf's grey palette swap, but I noticed someone had added a short note stating that it's "not a reference to Yuga from A Link Between Worlds", so I hesitated. Now… I actually don't think that palette is referencing Yuga. I think it's inspired by Demise from Skyward Sword. It's a bit of a stretch, but it fits well if you break it down. His general colour scheme changes from black, purple, and gold to black, red, and grey. His cape and waist ornaments contain a bit of gold, as well. On top of that, his head and hands are an unnatural ashen colour, almost white. His hair is a bright red with an orange tint towards the sideburns. Compare that information with this image of Demise. I think the connection was a little hard to make for some people because of his pants being made such a striking red, whereas Demise's red is more subtle. So, does anyone agree with this conclusion? I did my best to make as strong of a point for this as possible. FateSystem (talk) 04:17, 16 November 2014 (EST)

Ganon's skin tone does match Yuga's. The distinction between whether one or the other is white or grey is negligible and really only depends on lighting. Compare both their in game models and official artwork. http://imgur.com/kmewV9d

Zant also has white skin and red hair, and the maroonish red of his pants Ganon's pants is the same color as Zant's bib.

It's definitely a reference to Zant and or Yuga. That note didn't make much sense. Allsalts (talk) 19:07, 18 November 2014 (EST)

No, I still stand by my claim after everything you presented. The skin tone is similar, but it's not Yuga. His headpiece changes from gold to silver, and there's no sign of any deep purple or blue in his outfit. His cape and pants don't even fit Yuga's colour scheme in the slightest. The Zant idea makes a little more sense, but I'm still inclined to disagree, given the lack of bluish green in his outfit and several wildly placed colours. In fact, something I've also noticed is that, in the artwork at least, the stone on Ganondorf's head turns from a light yellow to a pure white. To me, this bears a resemblance to Demise's white scar on his forehead. That nearly cements the inspiration behind this costume to me. FateSystem (talk) 02:14, 21 November 2014 (EST)

I can see where you are both coming from, and I personally think that it is a reference to multiple other antagonists in one look. Just a thought. Gpev96 (SHAZAM!) (talk) 09:15, 21 November 2014 (EST)

Going back and looking at Yuga's official artwork, I see no similarities between the two... Aidan the Gamer 09:30, 21 November 2014 (EST)

Non-Find Mii Colors

Shouldn't Sheiks colors be Blue and Purple instead of Purple and Pink. Going by the Wii U model and head icon rather than the 3DS model. Allsalts (talk) 19:36, 26 November 2014 (EST)

I think it could go either way; #3 is very close between blue and purple in my opinion. We should get more opinions before making a change. Toomai Glittershine The Undirigible 10:34, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Meta Knight's 5th Color Scheme

Which Event Matches are these? I've completed all of the Events, and there wasn't one that featured this particular color scheme. LimitCrown (talk) 13:56, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Co-op, I believe. Laikue (talk | contribs) 18:43, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Oh. That explains why I haven't seen it. LimitCrown (talk) 03:05, 29 November 2014 (EST)

Mii Fighters hats and outfits

Should we get images of every outfit and hat? And possibly each of the colors of the outfits? Doubting the latter, but I think the former would be good, as the Mii Fighter section frankly..... looks bad. Laikue (talk | contribs) 18:50, 28 November 2014 (EST)

I don't suggest putting the images on the page itself, as it'll just inflate an already large page. If we can instead do something like this page, then I wouldn't mind; I just wouldn't put the images on this article itself. Rtzxy Reflect! 18:55, 28 November 2014 (EST)

That would go best on the page(s) that should get made for Mii outfits and/or hats. Toomai Glittershine The Orchestral 18:59, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Mr. Game & Watch's white palette swap

I think his white palette swap is supposed to look like an off Game & Watch LCD frame, but made opaque to keep him visible. Should I add that info to his section? WindozeNT (talk) 21:30, 4 December 2014 (EST)

The white G&W is lighter than that. BlueStreak 21:32, 4 December 2014 (EST)

They would've likely lightened it up differentiate from his default color. WindozeNT (talk) 21:46, 5 December 2014 (EST)

How would lighting it up make a difference? White is nowhere near black. BlueStreak 11:08, 6 December 2014 (EST)

Marth's black and yellow outfit.

The Majority of the outfit is black with only yellow trimmings, thus I'm hesitant to count it as a reference to Partner Units who have an almost entirely yellow colorscheme. Combined with partner units not showing up in any of the Archanea games, I think its more likely to assume outfit is a reference to Camus outfit, which is indeed Black with yellow trimming. Delsait (talk) 00:11, 12 December 2014 (EST)

It has yellow trimmings, a yellow gemstone, and the interior of the cape is yellow. Camus has never had a yellow cape. Marth's red swap is also mostly black, but has a red trimmings, red gemstone and red on both the inside and outside of the cape. Its kind of a pattern. Blue and Green are cool colors and most of those swaps are the color. Red and Yellow are warm colors so they get paired with black and just used for accents. Yellow units never appeared in Archanea games but they were in the Judgral games before Melee came out. If you look at his Melee swaps and count the black swap as the 'yellowish' one, then he has the four primary colors and white as a character shout out to Leif who almost got into to Melee but lost out to Roy. The fact that Find Mii counts this as a yellow costume instead of a black costume is also points to the partner unit argument.

Either way its not Camus. I agree that either his first four swaps should represent Player, Other, Enemy, Partner together or not at all. Allsalts (talk) 16:12, 12 December 2014 (EST)

Ganondorf's green

Ganondorf's green palette is green armor on brown clothes. Said colors are also the ones worn by Link in the 1st Legend of Zelda, so I always think it's where they got that from. Is it a stretch? SleepyRiri (talk) 04:19, 19 December 2014 (EST) New sections go on the bottom. I'm not sure about that bit of info, though. Littlesquirtle! I choose you! 09:39, 19 December 2014 (EST)

At what point does Link wear brown clothes in the original? BlueStreak Speeds By 09:52, 19 December 2014 (EST)

Link didn't have brown thighs nor pants, but for sure his sleeves were brown, indicating clothes below the green tunic. SleepyRiri (talk) 11:40, 19 December 2014 (EST)

Link in Zelda II is the same Link as Link from The Legend of Zelda; his artwork and sprite in Zelda II have him with brown pants. In The Legend of Zelda, Link had no pants. PikaSamus (talk) 14:44, 19 December 2014 (EST)

Duck Hunt dog breeds

I believe DHD's second alt more closely resembles a Bernese Mountain Dog; may not have any affiliation to hunting or the like, but the colors and markings seem a lot more accurate. The third alt has colors almost totally on par with the American Staffordshire Terrier, though both they and pit bulls have a lot of very variable colors, so this may mean nothing whatsoever (for either breed). The sixth may also be a Springer Spaniel, though this one is a bit less certain I suppose.

That's all I got for now, I'm looking into other breeds that others may be. I'm almost 100% certain that the yellow alt is NOT based on a golden retriever, as retrievers normally have a uniform color and the yellow DHD has a distinct brown stripe down its back and dark brown/black paws. I don't have a breed name to place but I will look into it. As for the eighth alt, I would say it more closely resembles a Chocolate Lab than does the fourth, as ChocLabs are more of a uniform color (the 8th is the only one that seems to fit this criteria) while the 4th alt has a noticeably lighter muzzle and darker ears. Again, though, I don't have any clear idea as to what the fourth is yet.

In any case, hope this helps. Banryu (talk) 01:44, 29 December 2014 (EST)

'Resemble' VS 'Based on'

It seems to me that there should be a distinction between these two phrases on this page. Some colorations are doubtless deliberately based on certain color schemes or characters, while others are possibly not, leaving their 'resemblance' open to interpretation (which is fine IMO, but I feel that distinction should be made).

To use Ike as an example: his yellow, black, and white color schemes are almost certainly based on Greil, the Black Knight, and Chrom respectively; the resemblances are too accurate for it to be anything but. In these cases, it seems acceptable to say 'Based on ___'. The others.... ...TBH I have my doubts about any of them but Sigurd, as they really only have a basic color in common with the supposed resembled character without any matching cape/accent colors or anything. Even so, I don't really care so long as this distinction is made. I actually went ahead and made these changes to Ike, maybe you guys want to apply the principle to the others if applicable (I don't really have the time ATM). Banryu (talk) 02:05, 29 December 2014 (EST)

"Resemble" is a safer term. "Based on" seems to make a bit of a stretch. Unless Sakurai confirms otherwise as with the Samus costumes, "resemble" should be the word of choice. Blue Ninjakoopa 12:01, 29 December 2014 (EST)

Shulk and Lucina should be the only ones with "based on", because Sakurai stated that they were based on their party members in a Miiverse post. LOOK ITS RED (hi im nutta) 12:48, 29 December 2014 (EST)

"Resemble" and "based on" mean two different things.

"Resemble" means that an object simply has qualities and/or features that look similar, if not alike to another object.

"Based on" means that the qualities and/or features of an object has been confirmed to be that of another object, or something similar, with relatively small changes.

Does that help? Rtzxy Reflect! 13:15, 29 December 2014 (EST)

Yes I am aware of the definitions of these terms, both in terms of this wiki and the dictionary. Thanks. Nonetheless there are definitely characters other than Shulk and Lucina who warrant the usage of 'based on'-- Captain Falcon's Blood Falcon alt is a prime example. Do as y'all will, I suppose. I was just trying to help make it more accurate so far as the terms go (since comparisons like the Avatar's outfits to the likes of Abel, Evayle, and Serra and Ike to Geoffrey, and other such comparisons seem like quite a stretch to me at least, and making that distinction would go a long way toward making this wiki look a lot more credible), but it's up to the whoever's in charge here, I guess. Though I'd point out that other fansites like the Smash Bros Miiverse seem to have a much clearer grasp on this stuff. Make of that what y'all will. 23.119.13.33 13:06, 31 December 2014 (EST)

^ That was me, BTW, for some reason I wasn't logged in so it don't got my sig. Banryu (talk) 13:09, 31 December 2014 (EST)

I think we should only use based on if it has been stated by a developer "yeah this is that". It sounds very definite to me. Like we could say that Samus's pink costume is based on the Varia Suit with missiles in Metroid, but Sakurai said it wasn't, so it officially only resembles. We can say the purple is based on the Gravity Suit in Super Metroid, but Sakurai said it wasn't, so it only resembles. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 13:43, 31 December 2014 (EST)

Fox's Alternate Costumes

First, I tried adding info that one of Fox's costumes in SSB4 resembles Wolf, but that edit was undone. Then, I tried removing the claim on this page, but it likewise was reverted. This revert was reverted, but someone once again added it back. I don't know what to do here. All I am trying to do is have some consistency while also trying to avoid an edit war. 192.34.174.34 14:44, 24 January 2015 (EST)

Bump. 192.34.174.34 17:41, 16 February 2015 (EST)

It resembles Wolf's fur color, but that's it. Laikue (talk | contribs) 18:18, 16 February 2015 (EST)

Charizard's pink colour.

I think this colour might be based on Wigglytuff, since Gen II shiny Aerodactyl is quite a stretch. The white belly and light punk corresponds with Wigglytuff in most generations and official art, I suggest that the article states that the colour resembles / is based on Wigglytuff. 83.83.199.50 05:33, 13 February 2015 (EST)

I'd say your claim is stretching it a little, since Charizard has more similarities to Aerodactyl than Wigglytuff. Sure, this is more purple than the actual alternate color, but comparing that same color to this is more sketchy, as:

1. Charizard is much darker in color
2. Aerodactyl is a flying type, like Charizard

That is all. Aidan the Aura Master 08:59, 13 February 2015 (EST)

Star Fox Adventures Costume

I see no resemblance between the white fox costume, and the SFAdventures outfit.

SFAdventures Fox has

1. Green Pants and shirt

2. White vest with no sleeves (brown fur showing).

3. White gloves, and gray boots.

4. Red Scarf.

White Fox has

1. White Pants and shirt (No resemblance).

2. White Jacket with Green Sleeves (No resemblance, if it was intended to be the same the sleeves should be brown or similar to his fur color).

3. Dark Gray Gloves, and Silver boots (colors swapped).

4. Black Scarf.

How is the second one based on the first in any way?

Allsalts (talk) 12:48, 27 March 2015 (EDT)

Charizard's blue color and Dragon Spirit

While Charizard's blue alt does resemble Golbat, the relation I noticed at first was instead to the player character in Dragon Spirit, which also is blue and has various forms of fire as its main attacks. If this seems enough for a possible relation we could add it to the main page. --MandL27 (talk) 20:30, 5 April 2015 (EDT)

I know this is days old, but the costume has to make a reference to other characters in Charizard's game. Hylia's Eye (talk) 20:08, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Protection

This page is probably the biggest attractor of speculative and poorly-researched edits on the wiki. Is there any opposition to protecting it? Every time I clear out inaccurate information from the page it ends up accumulating more extremely quickly. Miles (talk) 17:13, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

I say go for it. If people can't check for facts, then they shouldn't be editing this page. Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 17:16, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

I think semi-protection would be a better step at this point than full protection. Toomai Glittershine The Sphere 18:37, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

I'll lower it to semi-protected after I clean out some of the garbage soon. Miles (talk) 18:49, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

Mewtwo's colors

The Shadow Lugia color shouldn't be 'purple' due to arbirtary posters on the wiki. It's his black swap. Until we have tournament mode confirmation the only colors that have any reason to deviate from the Mii colors are default for purple, Red for Orange (as it was in Melee), and Green for Light Blue (again from Melee)

Also, the teal/cyan/light blue/light green color is clearly supposed to be his shiny color http://www.psypokes.com/dex/psydex/150/picdex. It was also used as such in his trailer with Ness (as a trainer) sneaking up on the Shiny Mewtwo with a Master Ball in hand. It's meant to be a shoutout to Shiny. Allsalts (talk) 19:03, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

The Shadow Lugia costume's dominant color is dark purple. Also, if you think Mewtwo's shiny color and its its teal-ish Smash 4 color are the same, consider getting your eyes checked. Miles (talk) 19:13, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Ok, so maybe that's not the Shiny coloration exactly, but some of the characters have designs that make them more realistic than how they are in their series. Loosely would be more precise, because while for a fact Mewtwo's shiny isn't that shade of green, it is green regardless. Hylia's Eye (talk) 20:24, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

It's drastically different to the point of it not resembling it at all. It's not like every playable Pokemon has its shiny colors in Smash, you know. Miles (talk) 20:29, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Well, I do see your point.

I don't. A lot of things aren't the same color as they are in their home series, but in the same color range. Shulk's colors don't resemble his home colors at all by that definition. Nor do the Zelda characters besides Toon Link. Mario's green and orange, now green and brown, Wrecking Crew outfit doesn't resemble the home series or its appearance in previous smash games. The fact is Tealish and Greenish are both more green than any other color, and his Greenish swap from Melee has been updated to be more tealish to fit Smash 4's aesthetic (the same way Mario's orange has become brown, or Spike foremans brown and yellow has become black and white), and Ness with the Master Ball in the trailer is clearly a reference to a super rare thing you would want to use a master ball on, like a Shiny Mewtwo.. Allsalts (talk) 02:45, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

Agreed. It's close enough that we can at least say resemble if not based on. It's more similar to Mewtwo's real Shiny than Greninja's is to his. Allsalts (talk) 02:45, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

Not different enough to not be worth mentioning. Like Allsalts said, it looks more like Mewtwo's Shiny than Greninja's supposed Shiny color is to it. 73MPL4R Only the dead have seen the end of war 21:15, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

However, I never really thought that it had to be exactly that color. I mean, think about it. Greninja's shiny palette has some cosmetic differences from its original; Charizard also has a shiny, even if it's not the modern black and red one. Hylia's Eye (talk) 20:44, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Anyway, for the pink color scheme, would it be alright for me to put it as a reference to Mew? Hylia's Eye (talk) 19:58, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

I still think the cyan swap is at least partly based on shiny Mew. Check its sprites for reference, especially the early ones. --Menshay (talk) 06:09, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

Miles, calm down! Just because you have a different point of view on this doesn't mean you have to make everybody agree with you. We all agree that it looks like shiny Mewtwo, why can't you just accept that?Nintenzilla 09:07, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

Here's my opinion: Shiny Mewtwo is only sorta-kinda similar to the yellow costume in Gen V. It's too green in III and IV, too aqua in VI, and too olive in II. As for the cyan, I don't see any resemblace to anything for it. Toomai Glittershine The Honcho 11:31, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

Too Aqua in Gen 6? As in too similar to Cyan in Gen 6? As in too similar to the Cyan swap in the most recent generation? As in too similar to the Cyan swap in the generation the Cyan swap is probably pulling from? Come on guys this is an incredibly minor thing given all the other examples on this page. Allsalts (talk) 17:08, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

We all have a different point of view, but I put down that it resembled his shiny form but a bit lighter in color, so let me ask, what's wrong with that?Nintenzilla 11:34, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

I'm going to add my two cents on Cyantwo. No, I do not think it resembles Mewtwo's shiny form (How do people even assume that?). Rather, I think it (somewhat) resembles MEW'S shiny form. Especially the early GSC sprites. ~Mega Togekiss

That's closer, but it's worth noting that shiny Mew is completely unavailable in Gen 2 aside from trading forward a Mew caught by glitching in Gen 1. Reduces the likelihood of it being an intentional similarity. Miles (talk) 17:54, 22 April 2015 (EDT)

Wasn't Mew an event Pokemon for the Japanese versions of the Gen 1 games? LimitCrown (talk) 18:36, 22 April 2015 (EDT)

There were English events too, but no legit way to get its Shiny form. Laikue (talk | contribs) 18:43, 22 April 2015 (EDT)

Does it really matter if he was obtainable in the Gen II games or not? The color palette exists regardless, and I agree with Mega Togekiss in that the Cyan coloration is very reminiscent of Shiny Mew, especially with neutral lighting.PRIZZA (talk) 1:30, 30 April 2015 (EDT)

@Nintenzilla, I'd just like to point out a MAJOR flaw in your logic. You're basically saying "hey, we all think it looks like this, so why can't we put it in?" Well, to be completely honest, there's only one reason why. It's speculation. (That, and you can't look at this and tell me it looks remotely similar to Mewtwo's cyan alt.) Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 20:18, 22 April 2015 (EDT)

How does Mewtwo's black coloration resemble Shadow Lugia? It could only just be that the color of Mewtwo's tail and body switched places. The color of Shadow Lugia's body is light blue rather than light purple. LimitCrown (talk) 00:07, 9 May 2015 (EDT)

It's nice that everyone's arguing the hell out of cyan and shadow Mewtwo, but can I just ask why the hell Orange Mewtwo is being likened to Melee's red palette swap when the red one in SSB4 is clearly that one? (referred to as pink on the page for reasons I can only imagine being related to still others needing their eyes checked) I'm just extremely confused as to why people think that orange = red as opposed to an actual shade of red = red 23.119.13.33 11:33, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

Because that costume is orange-ish/red in Melee? Miles (talk) 11:39, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

Charizard's Green Color

This color may be a nod to the first generation of Pokémon games which have a green tint and shades of black. I would add that to the description since it lacks one for it.

R.O.B.'s blue StarTropics alt

All right, I thought we settled this before. Why is it gone again? 71.226.144.42 17:11, 17 May 2015 (EDT)

Because Miles thinks that it's not based on NAV-COM. VGFacts has proven otherwise. --Tailikku (talk) 16:32, 29 June 2015 (EDT)

Nav-com is quite clearly a different purple from the dark blue R.O.B. costume. Miles (talk) 16:37, 29 June 2015 (EDT)

But it's still NAV-COM, no ifs ands or buts. The proof is in the link. --Tailikku (talk) 16:40, 29 June 2015 (EDT)

Uh, no, it's not. The link is based on an old version of our Brawl costumes page, before that claim was removed for lack of similarity. VGFacts is not a definitive source by any means. Miles (talk) 16:46, 29 June 2015 (EDT)

Bowser's Orange and Ness's Cyan

Bowser's orange alt is clearly based off of Bowletta, a posessed Bowser from Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga.

The face on the shirt of Ness's cyan alt is commonly thought by fans to be that of Master Belch, a famous boss from Earthbound.

Lucas's Blue

This is a reference to Kumatora, a female party member of Mother 3. The shorts color matches her boot color and the shirt color matches her jacket. Lucas's hair is darker, and looks more like Kumatora's hair. Here's a picture of her: [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kruegerm16 (talk • contribs) 18:09 (EST) 5 June 2015

Remember to sign your comments with four ~s. Anyway, I disagree. If it was based on her, the hair color would be a bit more pink. Thank you for bringing it to the talk page, though! Nyargleblargle (Talk) 18:16, 5 June 2015 (EDT)

First off, that's fanart. Second, the costume would need to have a more straightforward blue to match her outfit and would probably have pink hair, since the Duster, Claus, and Masked Man costumes all change his hair color. I think saying there's any reference to Kumatora in any of Lucas's costumes is a stretch. Miles (talk) 18:32, 5 June 2015 (EDT)

Dark costumes

So I've noticed that some characters in the game have an original "dark" costume like Zelda and Ganondorf. (*sigh* Sakurai, how do you do it? :/)

Anyway, I was thinking about Lucario's black costume. First seen in Project M, it was added to make his costumes clearer in battle. In this game...I dunno. Is it OK to say that it's a dark costume? Hylia's Eye (talk) 20:58, 5 June 2015 (EDT)

Personally, I think that doing so is a bit redundant. We can clearly see it's dark in the pic, so not really worth mentioning. (Applies to all the other dark costumes as well) Serpent King (talk) 01:21, 6 June 2015 (EDT)

Roy's Red Color also would resembles Cain's Archetypes

The green color resembles ally units and Abel's Archetypes, this also can applies with the red costume.

http://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/Cain

Troykv (talk) 22:18, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

Roy's Pink Custome would actually resembles another character

Well, I don't see this neccesary anymore, they already throw away Serra from the Pink Custome description.

Troykv (talk) 22:30, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

Ryu's Costumes

The link doesn't really explain much, compared to the details given for the others. Having the link before the desciptions is lazy. --Tailikku (talk) 07:49, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

Doesn't having the link to the source costumes and saying what game they're from eliminate any need for further description? Not to mention that the other "sources" for the costumes that you keep adding in don't seem to agree with the much more credible source already linked. Miles (talk) 12:50, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

It doesn't eliminate the need. The link is too vague. --Tailikku (talk) 13:01, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

What's vague about "these alternate costumes are based on these identical alternate costumes from this game" with a cross-reference image? Miles (talk) 14:12, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

What's wrong with having "This alternate costume is based on this identical costume form this game" with direct links to the source? --Tailikku (talk) 21:57, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

You haven't provided such a thing for two of the four you're claiming; on top of that, there's not much reason to believe they're the origin when it's clear that all of his costumes are from the same source and come as a set. Miles (talk) 22:09, 21 June 2015 (EDT)

Except for his orange and pink alts. And to a lesser extent his "cyan" alt. The orange one is actually from SNK's Art of Fighting series that was meant to cash in on Street Fighter II's success, by having a Ryu copy named Ryo Sakazaki. The gi that Ryu wears is based on Ryo's. The pink one is directly connected to the orange one by way of Capcom striking back at SNK by creating Dan Hibiki, the owner of the pink gi in Street Fighter Alpha. The cyan outfit that Ryu wears is also based on his attire from Street Fighter Alpha, where he wears a white gi and headband.--Tailikku (talk) 13:27, 22 June 2015 (EDT)

You're missing my point. Why are you so sure that those costumes are based on other characters when they 100% match an existing set of costumes, most of which are already based on even older costumes? Are you saying those costumes are based on these characters in HD Remix? And if so, you'd need to provide proof of that too. Miles (talk) 13:34, 22 June 2015 (EDT)

I beleive you're the one saying that they're based on HD Remix. I'm saying that they're based on existing outfits from before HD Remix. --Tailikku (talk) 21:31, 22 June 2015 (EDT)

You're really confusing me. They're an exact match for the HD Remix costumes. Are you saying that your claimed origins are the origins of the HD Remix costumes (and therefore the Smash ones indirectly), or do you disagree that they match the HD Remix ones? Because the its pretty blatant that they match to me. Miles (talk) 21:50, 22 June 2015 (EDT)

(Reset indent) Now wait a second here...if we agreed on the fact that they're based off of HD Remix, then why the hell is the info still up there? Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 17:08, 12 July 2015 (EDT)

Ryu's Gray Color

The gray costume is used for Champion Edition, not Hyper Fighting. The white costume is. 121.180.199.162 06:26, 26 June 2015 (EDT)

Fire Emblem greens: =/= neutral unit colors...?

I dunno what the deal is with people being obsessed with the Abel archetype color scheme, but I have to heavily disagree with that assessment. Just because Abel was green and in the first game, it does not mean that any characters with a green palette in the game are based on him. (Same deal with the Geoffrey comparison to Ike) I mean, while we're at it why not just throw in the names of anyone else who's ever worn green in a Fire Emblem game?

Everyone seems to agree that the red Fire Emblem character palettes are based on Fire Emblem's enemy unit colors and not Cain, so why is this even a thing? Is it not obvious to anyone else that Fire Emblem char's green color schemes are intended to resemble the colors of neutral units in these games? The entire reason that Robin's green color scheme resembles FE7's tactician sprite (thank you guys for finally realizing this at least) is because of that-- because the tactician character is a neutral/friendly unit that cannot be controlled by the player. It's kind of a no-brainer, Abel/Geoffrey/etc really have nothing to do with it. Banryu (talk) 11:45, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

That makes sense, especially considering the placement after the enemy unit color scheme. Still, it already seems to say that on the page. Why bring it up? Nyargleblargle (Talk) 11:59, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

For the longest time that was the only thing mentioned for Robin's green palette, and now again it's the only thing mentioned for Roy. Mentioning Abel at all just seems completely pointless and incidental to me (Geoffrey slightly less so, seeing as they're at least in the same game, but still). Looking again, Marth actually has this listed correctly; I'm just confused as to why that's not the case with Ike and Roy as well. Banryu (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

I'm by no means particularly knowledgeable about FE, but if you've got a clear basis for fixing what we currently have on the page you're encouraged to do so. Part of the issue I think is people are very quick to try to find a basis for every single costume; in a series with as many characters as FE there's pretty much always going to be a few that are close, regardless of if they make any sense as the costume's origin. Miles (talk) 15:05, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

People need to realize that some colors just aren't based on anything.

Sometimes a green costume is just a green costume, you know?

For example, I seriously doubt Nintendo would reference something like the French DK Country TV Show, or a single commercial for F-Zero. People think "Oh, Falcon was dressed in black in that ad, so his black color must be based on it right??" Not exactly.

Another example is Blue Ness representing his young self, apparently...The only similarity is that it's blue, it's really not a reference to that. There's a lot of junk in this article that needs cleaning up.

The article needs focus on true, obvious references and ones confirmed by Sakurai. Ryu's colors are definitely all references, as are Lucina's and Shulk's. 90% of Lucas's are also true references. Focus on those alts. Confirmed references to 3rd party material are also OK. Like Samus' green Gundam alt, Ness' Henshin Tigers costume, and Robin's white mage outfit--But I'd say those are the only exceptions. 76.231.86.37 06:14, 23 July 2015 (EDT)

Except Nintendo can reference the DKC Anime and the Japanese F-Zero X ad. Why? They're Nintendo, they do stuff like that! --Tailikku (talk) 20:14, 5 August 2015 (EDT)

Nintendo can't make third party references because of copyrights. If it's Sonic, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Ryu and Snake, then they can make all the references they want, because SEGA, Namco, Capcom, and Konami let them use their characters. (Also, Sakurai confirmed on the original SSB site that the green Samus alt was unique to Smash.) Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 20:30, 5 August 2015 (EDT)

Luigi's eight palette

Instead of edit warring, let's discuss this on the talk page. Personally, I believe that the costume isn't intended to resemble the anime outfit. Everything except the shirt color seems to be incorrect (heck, the overalls seem fairly real compared to the default palette, let alone the outfit). Nyargleblargle (Talk) 17:29, 21 August 2015 (EDT)

True. But it does "resemble" it in the shirt color. I think that's the only instance of Luigi wearing yellow. Doesn't mean it's intended to resemble it, and it doesn't mean it was modeled after it, but it does have some notable resemblance. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 17:32, 21 August 2015 (EDT)

No, it really doesn't have notable resemblance and there I literally cannot find a single other place that says it looks alike. With the exception of Did You Know Movies? latest video, which clearly got the info from here and was lambasted in the comments about how inaccurate it is. Popular opinion is that Alt 7 is based on the movie. Sure resembles it a HELL of a lot more than the other. Seriously, I literally can't find a single other person who thinks it looks remotely similar. Laikue (talk | contribs) 01:50, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Sorry, but I have to disagree. No resemblance Serpent King (talk) 02:05, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

I'm with Laikue here; the 8th one has no resemblance. The 7th one, on the other hand... Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 09:34, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Okay. I think I agree with y'all now. Do you think we should put the resemblance to the anime one for the 7th one? It's based on the Dark Moon multiplayer color but with the insignia and all it has some, so we could add a mention at the end... Smashedpotatoes (talk) 15:47, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Oh my gosh wow, I glossed over the fact that his cap is yellow while in the anime it's blue...silly me Smashedpotatoes (talk) 15:53, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Mewtwo - Pink/Magenta Alt Costume

Look at Mew's color

Look at #5

The colors are so similar. Side note, neither are red. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 18:55, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Mmmmm...It's a major stretch. Serpent King (talk) 19:00, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Is it though? They're both pink. I don't see how one can't see any resemblance in color.

Luigi has a pink costume. Does that mean this swap is based on that? Serpent King (talk) 19:19, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

I see no resemblance. You said it yourself that Mewtwo is magenta, and magenta ≠ Mew's color. Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 19:21, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Oh my god. Mew has something to do with Mewtwo. I really don't appreciate your sarcasm Serpent King.

Also, the point is, they're VERY close in color. In addition, the description said "resembles." Didn 't say "directly inspired by." Smashedpotatoes (talk) 19:36, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

(Reset indent) You had that sarcasm coming...

That being said, I still see no resemblance between Mewtwo's alt and Mew's coloring. Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 19:39, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Regarding your first sentence: You know what, you're a jerk. Also, I give up, it's not worth it. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 19:43, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Let's just calm down here. The point is that just because a character may have a similar pallet (especially if it isn't dead on, and if that pallet includes only one color), that does not mean that the swap was meant to represent that character Serpent King (talk) 19:46, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

I know that it may not be intended to resemble something, I get it. Thing is, its color is close to something directly related to Mewtwo (Mew being the prior form), and because their colors are close, Mewtwo's color "resembles" Mew's color. I don't get what's so hard to understand. But you know what, I guess it is unimportant and not close enough to be omitted. Side note, I hate dealing with jerks on the interwebs (not talking about you SK but then again, your sarcasm sucked) Smashedpotatoes (talk) 19:52, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Wasn't intended to be sarcastic really, just trying to make a point. Serpent King (talk) 19:55, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Well it sure didn't translate how you intended because the answer was obvious. Oh well. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 19:57, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

(Reset indent) SmashedPotatoes, no offense intended, but I think you should take a color test. My partially color-blind brother says that they look incredibly similar, but no one else in my family can see it. Actually, thinking about it, I bet a LOT of the inconsistencies and arguments that stem from this page are because of that. Laikue (talk | contribs) 20:54, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

"No offense" is a shitty phrase, way to cover your ass. Nice knowing you're a jerk as well Smashedpotatoes (talk) 22:00, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Also, I'm not colorblind, I can see just fine, thanks. No offense, not to be rude, not to be a jerk, not to be a dick, not to be that guy, sorry but, you've brought nothing to this conversation unfortunately Smashedpotatoes (talk) 22:04, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Look. This is a wiki. Disagreements happen and are, in a lot of cases, a good thing. Please do not be upset if someone disagrees with you. It's fine, and it's almost never meant to be a personal attack. Serpent King (talk) 22:06, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

I'm not mad that people are disagreeing with me. I'm mad that people are being bigass dicks, that's all Smashedpotatoes (talk) 22:07, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

I wasn't trying to offend you, no. I'm just saying that it could be possible. I didn't mean to come off so blunt, but eh, I guess I did. Sorry. Still think it's worth looking into. Laikue (talk | contribs) 23:13, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

It's k. I actually took a color test and it said I have normal vision. So that's that Smashedpotatoes (talk) 23:20, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

"Do not switch to Sigurd"

"he has white outlines, but Ike's costume has gold, like Seliph." There's two problems with this claim. One, Sigurd does have gold outlines on some of his black elements (admittedly not his shoulder armour), and two, this is Seliph. His colour distribution doesn't match this Ike costume at all. Seliph does wear this colour scheme once in just one of his five TCG cards, but all other depictions of him, particularly how he looks in-game, are more in this sort of area. Sigurd, on the other hand, consistently wears nothing but white'n'blue. --Missiletainn (talk) 20:33, 31 August 2015 (EDT)

I have to agree, he looks a lot more like Sigurd than Seliph based on the pictures I've seen (never played the games though). ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 21:29, 31 August 2015 (EDT)

Lucina's alts.

Couple things, 1.) the Tharja alt doesn't have the Mark of Grima on the cape.

2.) it's not the only alt to change the cape's texture, the Tiki one does, too. 98.27.129.207 23:16, 12 September 2015 (EDT)

You sir, are correct, Imma make dose changes accordingly. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 00:26, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

So do we really need to note alts to other games in the smash series?

Like Bowser's Black costume. It just seems pointless to me. Serpent∞King (talk) 03:30, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

I've been thinking about that and have been on the fence about it, and now that you mention it, it does seem pointless. If it's based on something else (in that case Morton) then I think it's appropriate to omit the part about it originating from Brawl. In the case of it not being based on anything, I think I'd lean towards omitting those details as well. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 03:36, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Then again, if there are slight changes made to the costume that originated from another Smash game, would it be necessary to note them? That seems like the hard part. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 03:40, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

I'm with Smashedpotatoes over here, regarding opinions. INoMed, King of Demons (Talk) 03:47, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

I did the deed. Left in the iffy stuff, which can be found with Ctrl + F and typing in "Smash Bros," "Melee," or "Brawl." Any opinions on the iffy stuff? Smashedpotatoes (talk) 04:07, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Example please? Not sure what you are talking about. Serpent∞King (talk) 04:31, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

I think all that's left is Fox's eighth one, and Wario's second and third ones. That's the iffy stuff I'm talking about. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 04:39, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

I removed Fox, but I am fine with Wario. Serpent∞King (talk) 04:46, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Ok, that's good. I think there should be some mention about Fox's eighth one resembling the color scheme of Wolf. Just...without the weird details the prior information stated there. What do you think? Smashedpotatoes (talk) 04:48, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

I'd be fine with that if the fur was gray and not purple Serpent∞King (talk) 04:49, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Slightly purple. Wolf's attire has purple on it too, as does Fox's here. It's a solid resemblance. But I'd understand if that mention was left out or put in. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 04:53, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Duck Hunt Banjo-Kazooie alt

many people refer to Duck hunt Duo's red alt as looking like Banjo-Kazooie, do you think this is worthy of note? I think it is, as the resemblence is uncanny

Absolutely not. This has been discussed many times before, and the answer is no. Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 09:22, 21 September 2015 (EDT)

Yet we still have the F-Zero X advert comparison.

You're right, but that does not pertain to this lol Smashedpotatoes (talk) 12:44, 23 September 2015 (EDT)

Charizard's Yellow and Pink colors

I personally feel that while the yellow colors for Charizard could be a reference to Charmeleon's and Charmander's shiny colors, it's more likely to be a reference to Dragonite, who is a fully evolved Gen 1 Pokemon with wings and dragon-like attributes. They also have similarly-colored inner wings and have a creamy underbelly.

I also think that the Pink color could reference the Pokemon Nidoking, who's ears bear a passing resemblance to the insides of the Pink color's wings. Nidoking is also vaguely pink, and they both have gray underbellies. It's a bit of a stretch, but if I had to pin it as a reference, that would be it.

Bazzard (talk) 00:31, 1 October 2015 (EDT)

Those are huge stretches, man. Yellow is almost definitely referencing Shiny Charmander/Charmeleon. Not only are the colors matching, but they're Charizard's pre-evolved forms, so they also have that direct relation, further strengthening the likelihood of the inference of the references being true. Nidoking is an even bigger stretch. First off, it's not even a Pokemon that has wings, which all non-Charizard family alt costumes reference. There are tons of purple/pinkish Pokemon...pinning it as Nidoking, whose colors don't even totally matches Charizard's pink alt, is waaaaaaayyyy out there. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 01:13, 1 October 2015 (EDT)

I'll concede on Nidoking, but how is the yellow one a "huge stretch" to be Dragonite? Both Charizard and Dragonite are famous gen 1 Pokemon with dragonic bodies. I almost feel like its more of a stretch to reference the pre-evolved forms Shiny colors than just one of the most iconic Gen 1 Pokemon. Bazzard (talk) 21:02, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

Isn't Dragonite more of an orange than a yellow? Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 21:14, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

That's why it's a big stretch: Dragonite is orange, and shiny Charmander and Charmeleon are very clearly yellow. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 01:24, 5 October 2015 (EDT)\

It's in line with the purpose of this wiki to add more objective and un-opinionated edits, as opposed to putting your personal thoughts out there on a page people may look to for real information. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 01:43, 5 October 2015 (EDT)

For this page things have to be plausible, because we don't know with 100% certainty what many of the costumes are based off of, but we can make really good inferences based on our knowledge. In this case, it's much more plausible for the yellow costumes to be based on the matching yellow-colored shiny Charmander and Charmelons colors, who also have direct relation to Charizard via being its pre-evolved forms, as opposed to the idea that it is instead based on Dragonite, who despite also being a dragonic Pokemon, does not have as strong as a relation to Charizard, and has a different color. Smashedpotatoes (talk) 01:50, 5 October 2015 (EDT)

Greninja's Purple-Green Alt.

I've been think about this costume, and after some thinking it looks a lot like a shiny Dragalge's color scheme. Both Pokémon are a Water-type Pokémon with a secondary type that is more "dark", for lack of a better word, and both have parts that sort of float (again for lack of a better word) being Greninja's tounge and Dragalge's whole body, really. I know it is a sort of stretch, but is it close enough to be listed? AmoongussForLife (talk) 19:38, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

Dragalge isn't Water-type (although it evolves from one). That aside, I find the idea that it's a deliberate resemblance doubtful. Miles (talk) 21:13, 4 October 2015 (EDT)

Oh. My bad, I have a lot of trouble with it's types. I guess I should of checked. I figured it wasn't close enough, but I didn't see the harm in asking. AmoongussForLife (talk) 05:51, 5 October 2015 (EDT)

Kirby's Green Color

That is NOT Plasma Kirby. Plasma Kirby wasn't green until Super Star Ultra. In the original game for the SNES, Plasma Kirby was pink. It wasn't until the Kirby anime that Spark Kirby would be colored green, but that was long after the debut of a green Kirby in the first Smash Bros. game. 73.226.78.163 17:06, 10 October 2015 (EDT)

That is true, I will change it to say Super Star Ultra instead of Super Star. Aardvarkian (talk) 17:09, 10 October 2015 (EDT)

Pit's Pink Alt

The sprites to the very right seem similar to Pit's 8th alt.