Talk:Alternate costume (SSB4)/Archive 2

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1. 1

Regarding Charizard's "Aerodactyl" color

Looking at the link given in an attempt to justify said color, Aerodactyl's wings are a more saturated purple while Charizard's wings don't have that same saturation. In fact, I sampled Charizard's wing color and it's more of a reddish purple compared to Aerodactyl's bluish purple. I admit the whiter tone in later generations does match this color, but overall I feel the wing color is what stops this from resembling Aerodactyl. I'm taking it off. P.S. Aerodactyl's eyes are green while this Charizard has aqua eyes for said color. They change slightly between colors. Dragon5 (talk) 21:20, 3 November 2014 (EST)

I agree. Aerodactyl is definitely more of a purplish grey anyhow, and the wings don't match. It may just not be based off of anything, or it may just be a progression of Charizard's white Pokemon Trainer alt from Brawl. Banryu (talk) 19:25, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Pit's Cyan alt - Thanatos?

This might be a bit of a stretch, but in looking at [the Thanatos trophy] in the game, I think Pit's 'cyan' alt might be based on him. The shade of aqua is a bit bright to be compared to his skin, but looking at the other colors of the palette, Pit has a purple scarf and wings and orange... uh... (kilt...?) which slightly resemble Thanatos' scarf and pants. Again, it might be a stretch, but the colors seem so deliberately chosen and I have no idea what else it might be based on. Banryu (talk) 19:21, 8 November 2014 (EST)

I see a slight resemblance, but shouldn't say that it's based in Thanatos; that would be speculation, which isn't allowed in the mainspace. However, you can say that the palette swap resembles Thanatos; there's a difference between the two words, you know. Rtzxy Reflect!!! 19:25, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Well, there you go. Still, I say that if it was deliberately made to resemble him, it's probably based off him. But of course since I have no way of affirming whether it was based on him... *shrug* Let the jury do as it may. Banryu (talk) 19:26, 8 November 2014 (EST)

"I say that if it was deliberately made to resemble him, it's probably based off him. "

How do you know it was deliberately made to resemble him? It could just be a simple coincidence, and saying that anyways would be like saying "Donkey Kong has a white palette swap, so it must be based off of Eddie the Yeti from his short-lived TV series" (it isn't, by the way) or something like that. Also, sorry if I'm coming off like an a** (I don't like swearing unless it's to quote someone or it's a name), but you get the point. Rtzxy Reflect!!! 19:34, 8 November 2014 (EST)

I wouldn't say that you're coming across as an @$$, but I would say that you're coming across as someone who didn't read everything I said. I conceded that I don't know if the resemblance to Thanatos is deliberate, and I have nothing else really to say on the matter. If the mods deem it worth a mention in the article, fine. If not, fine. I'm done with the bickering on semantics, though, we're off-topic enough by now. Banryu (talk) 22:44, 8 November 2014 (EST) :Yeah, we should set this argument aside. I will say that I misunderstood you, and I'm sorry for that. Now, back on topic, you can probably add that Pit's purple costume resembles Thanatos, because there is a resemblance between the two, but don't put anything that says it's based off him. OK? Rtzxy Reflect!!! 22:49, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Check that. I didn't do my research that good. As it turns out, Thanatos looks nothing like Pit, with no resemblance in colors whatsoever. So, I wouldn't add that the palette swap resembles him; he's just too different. Rtzxy Reflect!!! 22:55, 8 November 2014 (EST)

You might notice I haven't edited anything on the main page yet, I was bringing it up here first. Yeah, I agree the resemblance is not nearly as strong in his official art, I had noticed that. The trophy was mainly what gave me the idea, but like I said earlier, it might be too much of a stretch. Oh well. *shrug* Banryu (talk) 20:37, 9 November 2014 (EST)

Regarding Recent Changes

Toomai, I'm wondering why you deleted the Mewtwo section, as well as what the unconfirmed tab that you added means? Gpev96 (SHAZAM!) (talk) 14:42, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Until we actually know something about Mewtwo there's no point in having him. And the unconfirmed tab will eventually contain the color each swap represents in the Find Mii stage, or the Tournament in Wii U ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 14:47, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Thanks for clearing that upGpev96 (SHAZAM!) (talk) 15:18, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Cleanup?

What does the cleanup note mean? Where are the "claimed sources"? Kenniky 18:32, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Find Mii Colors

I hate to make two discussion posts right after one another, but 1) where's the source that states that the powerups on Find Mii are color-based and 2) why is Green Yoshi classified as Chartreuse? Where'd that info come from? It'd make more sense if he was Green.

Sorry if I'm being a bit nitpicky, but we can't really claim something without a source... Kenniky 18:39, 12 November 2014 (EST)

See this previous discussion.

As for your second question, I happen to know that red Yoshi and red Kirby match, but green Yoshi and green Kirby don't. Therefore, they're not the same shade of green, and Kirby is darker, so Yoshi's the other one. Toomai Glittershine The Spectrum 20:51, 12 November 2014 (EST)

The actual color name for Miis (using Find Mii and Tomodachi Life as the name source) is Light Green. PikaSamus (talk) 20:56, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Bearing in mind that were startinga Find Mii colors column, should the defaults that aren't clearly one color or another just be named Default. Like Fox's Grey, Falco's white, and Ike's Tan. I mean Tan, really... Allsalts (talk) 17:56, 13 November 2014 (EST)

Ok, thanks. Wasn't really sure where that came from. I might do some testing eventually using characters like Yoshi, Kirby, and the Mii Fighters (guys why didn't we use the Mii Fighters from the beginning it would have been a lot easier :P) Kenniky Talk 21:11, 13 November 2014 (EST)

Have people not been using Mii Fighters? I have been the whole time, which I think gives more accurate results. It's always possible there was a data-entry error, so the further a test is from being tested against Mii, the more likely it is to be wrong. --SnorlaxMonster 06:33, 15 November 2014 (EST)

I started by comparing the reds and greens of Yoshi and Kirby, discovering that the greens were different while the reds were the same. I did use a Mii at some point to confirm, but I mostly just chain-reacted from there. Toomai Glittershine The Aurum 10:51, 15 November 2014 (EST)

Kirby's 8th color?

Isn't Kirby's 8th palette based on "Shadow Kirby", the final boss of Kirby Triple Deluxe's "Kirby Fighters" minigames? 68.119.28.72 22:26, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Shadow Kirby is a light purple. PikaSamus (talk) 22:28, 12 November 2014 (EST)

Ganondorf's Grey Colour

I was about to edit Ganondorf's grey palette swap, but I noticed someone had added a short note stating that it's "not a reference to Yuga from A Link Between Worlds", so I hesitated. Now… I actually don't think that palette is referencing Yuga. I think it's inspired by Demise from Skyward Sword. It's a bit of a stretch, but it fits well if you break it down. His general colour scheme changes from black, purple, and gold to black, red, and grey. His cape and waist ornaments contain a bit of gold, as well. On top of that, his head and hands are an unnatural ashen colour, almost white. His hair is a bright red with an orange tint towards the sideburns. Compare that information with this image of Demise. I think the connection was a little hard to make for some people because of his pants being made such a striking red, whereas Demise's red is more subtle. So, does anyone agree with this conclusion? I did my best to make as strong of a point for this as possible. FateSystem (talk) 04:17, 16 November 2014 (EST)

Ganon's skin tone does match Yuga's. The distinction between whether one or the other is white or grey is negligible and really only depends on lighting. Compare both their in game models and official artwork. http://imgur.com/kmewV9d

Zant also has white skin and red hair, and the maroonish red of his pants Ganon's pants is the same color as Zant's bib.

It's definitely a reference to Zant and or Yuga. That note didn't make much sense. Allsalts (talk) 19:07, 18 November 2014 (EST)

No, I still stand by my claim after everything you presented. The skin tone is similar, but it's not Yuga. His headpiece changes from gold to silver, and there's no sign of any deep purple or blue in his outfit. His cape and pants don't even fit Yuga's colour scheme in the slightest. The Zant idea makes a little more sense, but I'm still inclined to disagree, given the lack of bluish green in his outfit and several wildly placed colours. In fact, something I've also noticed is that, in the artwork at least, the stone on Ganondorf's head turns from a light yellow to a pure white. To me, this bears a resemblance to Demise's white scar on his forehead. That nearly cements the inspiration behind this costume to me. FateSystem (talk) 02:14, 21 November 2014 (EST)

I can see where you are both coming from, and I personally think that it is a reference to multiple other antagonists in one look. Just a thought. Gpev96 (SHAZAM!) (talk) 09:15, 21 November 2014 (EST)

Going back and looking at Yuga's official artwork, I see no similarities between the two... Aidan the Gamer 09:30, 21 November 2014 (EST)

Non-Find Mii Colors

Shouldn't Sheiks colors be Blue and Purple instead of Purple and Pink. Going by the Wii U model and head icon rather than the 3DS model. Allsalts (talk) 19:36, 26 November 2014 (EST)

I think it could go either way; #3 is very close between blue and purple in my opinion. We should get more opinions before making a change. Toomai Glittershine The Undirigible 10:34, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Meta Knight's 5th Color Scheme

Which Event Matches are these? I've completed all of the Events, and there wasn't one that featured this particular color scheme. LimitCrown (talk) 13:56, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Co-op, I believe. Laikue (talk | contribs) 18:43, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Oh. That explains why I haven't seen it. LimitCrown (talk) 03:05, 29 November 2014 (EST)

Mii Fighters hats and outfits

Should we get images of every outfit and hat? And possibly each of the colors of the outfits? Doubting the latter, but I think the former would be good, as the Mii Fighter section frankly..... looks bad. Laikue (talk | contribs) 18:50, 28 November 2014 (EST)

I don't suggest putting the images on the page itself, as it'll just inflate an already large page. If we can instead do something like this page, then I wouldn't mind; I just wouldn't put the images on this article itself. Rtzxy Reflect! 18:55, 28 November 2014 (EST)

That would go best on the page(s) that should get made for Mii outfits and/or hats. Toomai Glittershine The Orchestral 18:59, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Mr. Game & Watch's white palette swap

I think his white palette swap is supposed to look like an off Game & Watch LCD frame, but made opaque to keep him visible. Should I add that info to his section? WindozeNT (talk) 21:30, 4 December 2014 (EST)

The white G&W is lighter than that. BlueStreak 21:32, 4 December 2014 (EST)

They would've likely lightened it up differentiate from his default color. WindozeNT (talk) 21:46, 5 December 2014 (EST)

How would lighting it up make a difference? White is nowhere near black. BlueStreak 11:08, 6 December 2014 (EST)

Marth's black and yellow outfit.

The Majority of the outfit is black with only yellow trimmings, thus I'm hesitant to count it as a reference to Partner Units who have an almost entirely yellow colorscheme. Combined with partner units not showing up in any of the Archanea games, I think its more likely to assume outfit is a reference to Camus outfit, which is indeed Black with yellow trimming. Delsait (talk) 00:11, 12 December 2014 (EST)

It has yellow trimmings, a yellow gemstone, and the interior of the cape is yellow. Camus has never had a yellow cape. Marth's red swap is also mostly black, but has a red trimmings, red gemstone and red on both the inside and outside of the cape. Its kind of a pattern. Blue and Green are cool colors and most of those swaps are the color. Red and Yellow are warm colors so they get paired with black and just used for accents. Yellow units never appeared in Archanea games but they were in the Judgral games before Melee came out. If you look at his Melee swaps and count the black swap as the 'yellowish' one, then he has the four primary colors and white as a character shout out to Leif who almost got into to Melee but lost out to Roy. The fact that Find Mii counts this as a yellow costume instead of a black costume is also points to the partner unit argument.

Either way its not Camus. I agree that either his first four swaps should represent Player, Other, Enemy, Partner together or not at all. Allsalts (talk) 16:12, 12 December 2014 (EST)

Ganondorf's green

Ganondorf's green palette is green armor on brown clothes. Said colors are also the ones worn by Link in the 1st Legend of Zelda, so I always think it's where they got that from. Is it a stretch? SleepyRiri (talk) 04:19, 19 December 2014 (EST) New sections go on the bottom. I'm not sure about that bit of info, though. Littlesquirtle! I choose you! 09:39, 19 December 2014 (EST)

At what point does Link wear brown clothes in the original? BlueStreak Speeds By 09:52, 19 December 2014 (EST)

Link didn't have brown thighs nor pants, but for sure his sleeves were brown, indicating clothes below the green tunic. SleepyRiri (talk) 11:40, 19 December 2014 (EST)

Link in Zelda II is the same Link as Link from The Legend of Zelda; his artwork and sprite in Zelda II have him with brown pants. In The Legend of Zelda, Link had no pants. PikaSamus (talk) 14:44, 19 December 2014 (EST)

Duck Hunt dog breeds

I believe DHD's second alt more closely resembles a Bernese Mountain Dog; may not have any affiliation to hunting or the like, but the colors and markings seem a lot more accurate. The third alt has colors almost totally on par with the American Staffordshire Terrier, though both they and pit bulls have a lot of very variable colors, so this may mean nothing whatsoever (for either breed). The sixth may also be a Springer Spaniel, though this one is a bit less certain I suppose.

That's all I got for now, I'm looking into other breeds that others may be. I'm almost 100% certain that the yellow alt is NOT based on a golden retriever, as retrievers normally have a uniform color and the yellow DHD has a distinct brown stripe down its back and dark brown/black paws. I don't have a breed name to place but I will look into it. As for the eighth alt, I would say it more closely resembles a Chocolate Lab than does the fourth, as ChocLabs are more of a uniform color (the 8th is the only one that seems to fit this criteria) while the 4th alt has a noticeably lighter muzzle and darker ears. Again, though, I don't have any clear idea as to what the fourth is yet.

In any case, hope this helps. Banryu (talk) 01:44, 29 December 2014 (EST)

'Resemble' VS 'Based on'

It seems to me that there should be a distinction between these two phrases on this page. Some colorations are doubtless deliberately based on certain color schemes or characters, while others are possibly not, leaving their 'resemblance' open to interpretation (which is fine IMO, but I feel that distinction should be made).

To use Ike as an example: his yellow, black, and white color schemes are almost certainly based on Greil, the Black Knight, and Chrom respectively; the resemblances are too accurate for it to be anything but. In these cases, it seems acceptable to say 'Based on ___'. The others.... ...TBH I have my doubts about any of them but Sigurd, as they really only have a basic color in common with the supposed resembled character without any matching cape/accent colors or anything. Even so, I don't really care so long as this distinction is made. I actually went ahead and made these changes to Ike, maybe you guys want to apply the principle to the others if applicable (I don't really have the time ATM). Banryu (talk) 02:05, 29 December 2014 (EST)

"Resemble" is a safer term. "Based on" seems to make a bit of a stretch. Unless Sakurai confirms otherwise as with the Samus costumes, "resemble" should be the word of choice. Blue Ninjakoopa 12:01, 29 December 2014 (EST)

Shulk and Lucina should be the only ones with "based on", because Sakurai stated that they were based on their party members in a Miiverse post. LOOK ITS RED (hi im nutta) 12:48, 29 December 2014 (EST)

"Resemble" and "based on" mean two different things.

"Resemble" means that an object simply has qualities and/or features that look similar, if not alike to another object.

"Based on" means that the qualities and/or features of an object has been confirmed to be that of another object, or something similar, with relatively small changes.

Does that help? Rtzxy Reflect! 13:15, 29 December 2014 (EST)

Yes I am aware of the definitions of these terms, both in terms of this wiki and the dictionary. Thanks. Nonetheless there are definitely characters other than Shulk and Lucina who warrant the usage of 'based on'-- Captain Falcon's Blood Falcon alt is a prime example. Do as y'all will, I suppose. I was just trying to help make it more accurate so far as the terms go (since comparisons like the Avatar's outfits to the likes of Abel, Evayle, and Serra and Ike to Geoffrey, and other such comparisons seem like quite a stretch to me at least, and making that distinction would go a long way toward making this wiki look a lot more credible), but it's up to the whoever's in charge here, I guess. Though I'd point out that other fansites like the Smash Bros Miiverse seem to have a much clearer grasp on this stuff. Make of that what y'all will. 23.119.13.33 13:06, 31 December 2014 (EST)

^ That was me, BTW, for some reason I wasn't logged in so it don't got my sig. Banryu (talk) 13:09, 31 December 2014 (EST)

I think we should only use based on if it has been stated by a developer "yeah this is that". It sounds very definite to me. Like we could say that Samus's pink costume is based on the Varia Suit with missiles in Metroid, but Sakurai said it wasn't, so it officially only resembles. We can say the purple is based on the Gravity Suit in Super Metroid, but Sakurai said it wasn't, so it only resembles. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 13:43, 31 December 2014 (EST)

Fox's Alternate Costumes

First, I tried adding info that one of Fox's costumes in SSB4 resembles Wolf, but that edit was undone. Then, I tried removing the claim on this page, but it likewise was reverted. This revert was reverted, but someone once again added it back. I don't know what to do here. All I am trying to do is have some consistency while also trying to avoid an edit war. 192.34.174.34 14:44, 24 January 2015 (EST)

Bump. 192.34.174.34 17:41, 16 February 2015 (EST)

It resembles Wolf's fur color, but that's it. Laikue (talk | contribs) 18:18, 16 February 2015 (EST)

Charizard's pink colour.

I think this colour might be based on Wigglytuff, since Gen II shiny Aerodactyl is quite a stretch. The white belly and light punk corresponds with Wigglytuff in most generations and official art, I suggest that the article states that the colour resembles / is based on Wigglytuff. 83.83.199.50 05:33, 13 February 2015 (EST)

I'd say your claim is stretching it a little, since Charizard has more similarities to Aerodactyl than Wigglytuff. Sure, this is more purple than the actual alternate color, but comparing that same color to this is more sketchy, as:

1. Charizard is much darker in color
2. Aerodactyl is a flying type, like Charizard

That is all. Aidan the Aura Master 08:59, 13 February 2015 (EST)

Star Fox Adventures Costume

I see no resemblance between the white fox costume, and the SFAdventures outfit.

SFAdventures Fox has

1. Green Pants and shirt

2. White vest with no sleeves (brown fur showing).

3. White gloves, and gray boots.

4. Red Scarf.

White Fox has

1. White Pants and shirt (No resemblance).

2. White Jacket with Green Sleeves (No resemblance, if it was intended to be the same the sleeves should be brown or similar to his fur color).

3. Dark Gray Gloves, and Silver boots (colors swapped).

4. Black Scarf.

How is the second one based on the first in any way?

Allsalts (talk) 12:48, 27 March 2015 (EDT)

Charizard's blue color and Dragon Spirit

While Charizard's blue alt does resemble Golbat, the relation I noticed at first was instead to the player character in Dragon Spirit, which also is blue and has various forms of fire as its main attacks. If this seems enough for a possible relation we could add it to the main page. --MandL27 (talk) 20:30, 5 April 2015 (EDT)

I know this is days old, but the costume has to make a reference to other characters in Charizard's game. Hylia's Eye (talk) 20:08, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Protection

This page is probably the biggest attractor of speculative and poorly-researched edits on the wiki. Is there any opposition to protecting it? Every time I clear out inaccurate information from the page it ends up accumulating more extremely quickly. Miles (talk) 17:13, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

I say go for it. If people can't check for facts, then they shouldn't be editing this page. Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 17:16, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

I think semi-protection would be a better step at this point than full protection. Toomai Glittershine The Sphere 18:37, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

I'll lower it to semi-protected after I clean out some of the garbage soon. Miles (talk) 18:49, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

Mewtwo's colors

The Shadow Lugia color shouldn't be 'purple' due to arbirtary posters on the wiki. It's his black swap. Until we have tournament mode confirmation the only colors that have any reason to deviate from the Mii colors are default for purple, Red for Orange (as it was in Melee), and Green for Light Blue (again from Melee)

Also, the teal/cyan/light blue/light green color is clearly supposed to be his shiny color http://www.psypokes.com/dex/psydex/150/picdex. It was also used as such in his trailer with Ness (as a trainer) sneaking up on the Shiny Mewtwo with a Master Ball in hand. It's meant to be a shoutout to Shiny. Allsalts (talk) 19:03, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

The Shadow Lugia costume's dominant color is dark purple. Also, if you think Mewtwo's shiny color and its its teal-ish Smash 4 color are the same, consider getting your eyes checked. Miles (talk) 19:13, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Ok, so maybe that's not the Shiny coloration exactly, but some of the characters have designs that make them more realistic than how they are in their series. Loosely would be more precise, because while for a fact Mewtwo's shiny isn't that shade of green, it is green regardless. Hylia's Eye (talk) 20:24, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

It's drastically different to the point of it not resembling it at all. It's not like every playable Pokemon has its shiny colors in Smash, you know. Miles (talk) 20:29, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Well, I do see your point.

I don't. A lot of things aren't the same color as they are in their home series, but in the same color range. Shulk's colors don't resemble his home colors at all by that definition. Nor do the Zelda characters besides Toon Link. Mario's green and orange, now green and brown, Wrecking Crew outfit doesn't resemble the home series or its appearance in previous smash games. The fact is Tealish and Greenish are both more green than any other color, and his Greenish swap from Melee has been updated to be more tealish to fit Smash 4's aesthetic (the same way Mario's orange has become brown, or Spike foremans brown and yellow has become black and white), and Ness with the Master Ball in the trailer is clearly a reference to a super rare thing you would want to use a master ball on, like a Shiny Mewtwo.. Allsalts (talk) 02:45, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

Not different enough to not be worth mentioning. Like Allsalts said, it looks more like Mewtwo's Shiny than Greninja's supposed Shiny color is to it. 73MPL4R Only the dead have seen the end of war 21:15, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

However, I never really thought that it had to be exactly that color. I mean, think about it. Greninja's shiny palette has some cosmetic differences from its original; Charizard also has a shiny, even if it's not the modern black and red one. Hylia's Eye (talk) 20:44, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Agreed. It's close enough that we can at least say resemble if not based on. It's more similar to Mewtwo's real Shiny than Greninja's is to his. Allsalts (talk) 02:45, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

Anyway, for the pink color scheme, would it be alright for me to put it as a reference to Mew? Hylia's Eye (talk) 19:58, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

I still think the cyan swap is at least partly based on shiny Mew. Check its sprites for reference, especially the early ones. --Menshay (talk) 06:09, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

Miles, calm down! Just because you have a different point of view on this doesn't mean you have to make everybody agree with you. We all agree that it looks like shiny Mewtwo, why can't you just accept that?Nintenzilla 09:07, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

Here's my opinion: Shiny Mewtwo is only sorta-kinda similar to the yellow costume in Gen V. It's too green in III and IV, too aqua in VI, and too olive in II. As for the cyan, I don't see any resemblace to anything for it. Toomai Glittershine The Honcho 11:31, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

Too Aqua in Gen 6? As in too similar to Cyan in Gen 6? As in too similar to the Cyan swap in the most recent generation? As in too similar to the Cyan swap in the generation the Cyan swap is probably pulling from? Come on guys this is an incredibly minor thing given all the other examples on this page. Allsalts (talk) 17:08, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

We all have a different point of view, but I put down that it resembled his shiny form but a bit lighter in color, so let me ask, what's wrong with that?Nintenzilla 11:34, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

Charizard's Green Color

This color may be a nod to the first generation of Pokémon games which have a green tint and shades of black. I would add that to the description since it lacks one for it.