Talk:Fox (SSB4)

Fox's Final Smash is still Landmaster. Add? Meyguhmein - talk - *FURIOUSLY FANBOYS OVER MEGAMAN* 01:24, 11 June 2014 (EDT)

Why is Charge Blaster listed as an option for Up Special? Shouldn't it be a Neutral Special?Tepig (talk) 16:01, 20 June 2014 (EDT)

The video proving the name is this, where it clearly says "Charge Blaster (Up Special)". Toomai Glittershine The Superlative 16:32, 20 June 2014 (EDT)

Actually in the E3 demo it never shown any neutral specials nor a side specials. So Charge Blaster may be a neutral special since all characters, well except Palutena and the Mii Fighters, have a rip off variation of that move. The Smash Brotha (talk) 10:30, 28 July 2014 (EDT)

Page is protected so can't add this myself. The Landmaster in SSB4 can now fire in the Air, prob should be noted somewhere in changes from Brawl. --Vashzaron (talk) 19:21, 14 September 2014 (EDT)

I'm trying to do damage calculations, but I can't add them due to the recent creation my account, I'm willing to do them for quite a few heroes... I just need permission. --Knin (talk) 22:46, 15 October 2014 (EDT)

You're just gonna have to wait a week to be auto-confirmed, however, if you want to start now, just post your calcs to the talk page and ask for credit in the edit summaries. Laikue (talk|contribs) 23:05, 15 October 2014 (EDT)

Aerial landing lag frame data

It's true that you said that his forward, up, neutral & down aerials have increased landing lag. But are you sure that Fox's back aerials have more landing lag than in Brawl? I compared his landing lag from Brawl to Smash 4. Luigi540 (talk) 03:36, 10 November 2014 (EST)

One thing to note about Fox's D-air is the landing lag seems to be affected only if you don't hit the opponent with it. According to the Fox tutorial made by ZeRo, he demonstrated here the differences between missing D-air and hitting with D-air. DavemanCozy (talk) 11:25, 3 December 2014 (EST)

Fox "appears to be nerfed overall"

"Fox appears to be nerfed overall. His movement speed was nerfed, making his approaches much less safe and he can no longer laser camp to bait bad approaches from his opponents. Additionally, his finishers are weaker. He did gain better recovery options, but they do not compensate for the nerfs to his neutral and punishment games."
Some comments on this: "His movement speed was nerfed:" According to this thread Fox's dashing speed is the 4th best in the game and his walking speed is the 3rd best in the game. From visual observation and playing, I actually think his dashing speed is better than Brawl's, although his walking speed does seem slower than it was in Brawl. The thread provided is based in human observation, so it's no solid data, but I think it's also misleading to say "his movement speed was nerfed" when he visually is faster than most of the cast.
"He can no longer laser camp to bait bad approaches:" Fox can no longer laser camp, but he can still use lasers to bait bad approaches (he just won't be shooting a ton of them like in Brawl) Should be re-worded to something like "he can no longer bait approaches as effectively with the blaster" or something to that effect.
DavemanCozy (talk) 12:08, 3 December 2014 (EST)

Movement speed refers to how safe his movement is. Smash 4 Fox's movement is the least safe it has ever been. In particular, I feel like his initial dash animation has been shortened and as you said his walk speed has been reduced. Because you can't change your spacing with dash dancing in Smash 4, you have to rely on inferior movement techniques in Foxtrotting and Walking. The nerfs to his initial dash animation and his walk speed nerf both of those techniques respectively. Less safe movement means you'll have a worse neutral game because you cannot approach easily.

As for lasers, you won't be able to bait approaches at all. Baiting a bad approach means you are able to punish said bad approach after your opponent commits. But because lasers have endlag, you won't be able to throw another move out to punish your opponent's approach. Fox sucks in this game.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 15:13, 3 December 2014 (EST)

No he doesn't. Why else would top players like Nakat say he's top 10 or players like ZeRo decide to main Fox (see the video I posted above)? Did you even watch the video I posted with ZeRo's analysis on Fox? Saying he sucks is plain wrong, don't go spreading misinformation like that.DavemanCozy (talk) 16:05, 3 December 2014 (EST)

It's not misinformation; it's his opinion, that's all. If he thinks Fox sucks, then that's his opinion, not yours. Rtzxy Reflect! 16:08, 3 December 2014 (EST)

No. A character's relative strength in comparison to the rest of the cast is an objective quality, not an opinion. If it were subjective, then you could somehow make a reasonable case for MK not being the best in Brawl, or Kirby being the best in Melee. Zero and Nakat are too optimistic about Smash 4 to call anyone bad. I don't trust alot of what they say because they exaggerate the strengths of their characters while minimizing discussion about their weaknesses. A really gross exaggeration is Zero's analysis on Marth. It is so obvious Marth has been completely gutted in this game. He has no movement to play footsies with. He can't pressure you with aerials. He can't run away and camp you. And he can't setup kills or edgeguards. Yet all Zero says is "Marth is still good; you have to play him differently." Zero would rather tell a white lie to not offend casual Marth mains than tell the truth.

If you want to prove to me that Fox is anywhere near good, please disprove all the things I have stated in my first paragraph. Prove that he has safe movement to approach with. Prove he can somehow bait and punish bad approaches with lasers. Frame data would serve you better than heuristics. In other words you should present actual in game evidence or analysis that you thought of yourself instead of saying "I feel like he's better because he feels better to me" or saying "Fox is better because other people say so."--Brian^{Don't try me!} 16:25, 3 December 2014 (EST)

↑ Agreed. Fox's only two boons in Brawl (vertical kill ability and lasers) were taken away in this game, so he isn't much more than crap now. Chilex (talk) 17:48, 3 December 2014 (EST)

↑Fox is in no way trash in this game his nerfs he has gained while hindering some of his potential, he makes up for wit the new hit-stun changes and improved recovery the combos fox can do are amazing and the small power buff he gained are extremely helpful.