Chain grab: Difference between revisions
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*{{SSBM|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw nearly every character in the game with hand-offs, edge throw exploits, and other traps, such as having Nana execute a down aerial as Popo down throws the opponent, forcing them to stand up and allowing them to be grabbed again. Wobbling, which is inescapable when performed right, can trap an opponent forever or until the player kills them or messes up. Even without Nana, Popo by himself can chain throw a handful of characters, such as Roy, Sheik, and Ganondorf with down throw until about 50%. | *{{SSBM|Ice Climbers}}: Can chain throw nearly every character in the game with hand-offs, edge throw exploits, and other traps, such as having Nana execute a down aerial as Popo down throws the opponent, forcing them to stand up and allowing them to be grabbed again. Wobbling, which is inescapable when performed right, can trap an opponent forever or until the player kills them or messes up. Even without Nana, Popo by himself can chain throw a handful of characters, such as Roy, Sheik, and Ganondorf with down throw until about 50%. | ||
*{{SSBM|Peach}}: Can chain throw fast fallers, floaty characters, and heavyweights at high percentages with her down throw. She can also chain grab with her up throw against everyone at 0% (briefly) and fast fallers at around 40%. | *{{SSBM|Peach}}: Can chain throw fast fallers, floaty characters, and heavyweights at high percentages with her down throw. She can also chain grab with her up throw against everyone at 0% (briefly) and fast fallers at around 40%. | ||
*{{SSBM|Mewtwo}}: Can chain throw with its down throw on large characters like Bowser from 0-50%. Mewtwo can also chain throw fast fallers like Fox, Falco, Sheik, Captain Falcon and sometimes Roy, giving him an advantage against these characters. | *{{SSBM|Mewtwo}}: Can chain throw with its down throw on large characters like Bowser from 0-50%. Mewtwo can also chain throw fast fallers like Fox, Falco, Sheik, Captain Falcon and sometimes Roy, giving him an advantage against these characters. | ||
*{{SSBM|Donkey Kong}}: Can chain throw Fox, Falco, and Falcon with the up throw at low to mid percentages. Donkey Kong can also chain throw Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon with the forward throw if he connects it into his up throw. | *{{SSBM|Donkey Kong}}: Can chain throw Fox, Falco, and Falcon with the up throw at low to mid percentages. Donkey Kong can also chain throw Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon with the forward throw if he connects it into his up throw. | ||
Revision as of 00:16, May 31, 2020
- "CG" redirects here. For the Mario technique abbreviated as "CG", see Cape glide.
A chain grab, also referred to as a chain throw or abbreviated as CG, refers to a form of infinite that is a series of grabs and throws that the victim cannot escape. Generally, a player throws the opponent in a specific direction (most commonly down or forward), chases the opponent's directional influence, then grabs the opponent in midair before they can tech. Sheik and the Ice Climbers are examples of characters who rely heavily on chain grabs. Due to the changes to hitstun and the more severe stale-move negation in Brawl, chain-grabbing is overall more prevalent. Generally, fastfallers, heavyweights, and large characters tend to be more vulnerable to chain grabs than floaty characters, lightweights, and smaller characters. Some circumstances can enable a chain grab to be a zero-to-death combo. The Ice Climbers are particularly potent at this. It is one of the two advanced techniques that were in the first three Smash games but no longer possible in Smash 4; the other is team wobble. The inability to do chain grabs has been carried over into Ultimate.
Controversy
Chain grabbing is a controversial technique within the community. Many players consider it an unsportsmanlike move because it can be inescapable when perfected by the grabber. It is additionally generally seen as "boring" even by competitive players to watch and play against, due to the repetition involved with repeatedly grabbing and throwing a character over and over while the opponent has negligible control in the matter, especially with prolonged chain throwing. Then since chain grabs tend to affect some characters a lot more severely, while for some other characters it is of negligent concern, it has a polarizing effect on matchups and is the primary cause for many hard counters. Infinite chain grabbing, in particular, has a tendency to encourage more defensive gameplay and camping tactics, especially in Brawl, another point of contention against chain grabbing. Since powerful chain throws can result in heavy damage or even a zero-death just from being grabbed, most players counter the risk of approaching opponents with access to such chain grabs by camping, either by staying airborne or on platforms.
However, competitive players generally see it as a valid technique and accept its usage, as it's simply a combo that is performed by grabbing, and that characters like Sheik, the Ice Climbers, and King Dedede need it to overcome other deficiencies in high-level matches, provided it is not used in extreme excess to stall (i.e. using King Dedede's standing infinite beyond 300% damage, which is well beyond the damage needed for Dedede to KO the opponent with his back throw). Competitive players additionally generally have a "play to win" mindset, meaning players are expected to utilize whatever legal means necessary in-game to win.
Possibly as a result of the controversy surrounding the technique, SSB4 has removed chain grabbing by granting 70 frames of invulnerability against grabs to a character who is thrown or grab-released. There is an argument about the change, but the general agreement is that it was for the best even in competitive play, due to the aforementioned polarizing effect chain throws tend to have on matchups, and them being generally regarded as spectator and player-unfriendly.
Examples
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This article or section may require a cleanup. The editor who added this tag believes this page should be cleaned up for the following reason: There's far too many examples here, and the entirety of this section is poorly written. Brawl is fixed. You can discuss this issue on the talk page or edit this page to improve it. |
Characters with well-known chain grabs include the following.
Super Smash Bros.
- Pikachu: Can chain most characters with its forward throw at low percentages.
- Donkey Kong: Can chain all characters to extreme percents by release grabbing with his forward throw (known as the infinite throw trap). This technique caused moderate controversy within the Smash 64 community, as it was seen as "cheap" by some. Yoshi and Ness are the most difficult to get out of the chain grab due to their odd double jumps. Pikachu has by far the easiest time escaping because its up special, Quick Attack, has invincibility frames. Donkey Kong players usually do this in order to either set up a stronger or better throw (as each grab release does 8% damage) or to make it so DK is closer to the edge and can back throw instead of up throw, as the back throw has much more power.
- Fox: Can chain throw forward and backward at low percentages.
The other main part of chain grabs can be seen on the "Combo Tent" portion of Hyrule Castle. Yoshi and Samus cannot do this due to their overly slow grabs (however, they can throw into a down aerial or a similar aerial to combo). Kirby, Ness, and Jigglypuff cannot do this due to their back throws having too much knockback to be able to combo before the opponent escapes hitstun. The majority requires down aerials and back throws. However, Pikachu, Fox, Captain Falcon, Mario, and Luigi can all perform chain grabs on this portion of the stage.
Super Smash Bros. Melee
- Sheik: Can chain throw most characters (Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Ganondorf, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Link, Ness, and Sheik) with her down throw from as little as 0% to medium or high percentages, as high as 90% if the opponent's DI is poor. On other characters, it can reliably tech chase to high percents. This doesn't work in the PAL version of Melee, however, due to her down throw sending her opponents on a more horizontal angle, disallowing regrabs except at very low percentages.
- Marth and Roy: Up throw can chain throw Fox and Falco from 0% to about 60%. Marth can also chaingrab Jigglypuff with forwarding throws and down throws until about 20%, depending on DI.
- Ice Climbers: Can chain throw nearly every character in the game with hand-offs, edge throw exploits, and other traps, such as having Nana execute a down aerial as Popo down throws the opponent, forcing them to stand up and allowing them to be grabbed again. Wobbling, which is inescapable when performed right, can trap an opponent forever or until the player kills them or messes up. Even without Nana, Popo by himself can chain throw a handful of characters, such as Roy, Sheik, and Ganondorf with down throw until about 50%.
- Peach: Can chain throw fast fallers, floaty characters, and heavyweights at high percentages with her down throw. She can also chain grab with her up throw against everyone at 0% (briefly) and fast fallers at around 40%.
- Mewtwo: Can chain throw with its down throw on large characters like Bowser from 0-50%. Mewtwo can also chain throw fast fallers like Fox, Falco, Sheik, Captain Falcon and sometimes Roy, giving him an advantage against these characters.
- Donkey Kong: Can chain throw Fox, Falco, and Falcon with the up throw at low to mid percentages. Donkey Kong can also chain throw Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon with the forward throw if he connects it into his up throw.
- Fox: Can up-throw himself and Falco until mid percents, where he can then combo into either up-smash or up-air, depending on DI and whether or not the opponent jumps out of the chain grab.
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
- Donkey Kong: Can also carry release infinitely against Ness and Lucas, guaranteeing success by turning before releasing and turn grabbing so Ness/Lucas releases in his back (turned grab). He can also chain grab with his down throw at lower percentages.
- Falco: Can chain grab with his down throw at lower percentages against everyone except very floaty characters such as Jigglypuff, giving ~42% to most characters, more to the heavyweights. It easily combos into dash attack (which when canceled to up smash it allows a total of 65% damage).
- Ice Climbers: Can chain throw with their backward, forward, and down throws on everyone except another pair of Ice Climbers. Ice Climbers have multiple infinites through alternating, release, and footstool grabs, usually executed as zero-to-death combo to the ledge, ending with a spike. A lone ice climber can only chain grab fast fallers with down throw at low percentages. Note that if both Ice Climbers are present, they are immune to chain grabs, due to one climber being able to interrupt the opponent while the other is grabbed. See here for more information.
- King Dedede: Can chain his down throw with dash grab against any character with a weight of 87 or heavier. This is an infinite that does not require a wall on Mario, Luigi, Samus, and Donkey Kong.
- Marth: Can chain grab Fox and Falco with his forward throw twice (this is a true setup into tipper DAir). At slightly higher percents, he can chain grab them with his forward throw as a setup into forward smash. His grab release also chains into itself on most characters, infinitely on Ness and Lucas.
- Pikachu: Can chain its forward throw using dash grab against most characters up to mid-percents. It can also chain its down throw against fast fallers using buffered standing grabs to quite high percents due to the move staling as it is used repeatedly.
Super Smash Bros. 4
In Super Smash Bros. 4, characters are immune to any grabs for 1.1 seconds after escaping from a grab or being thrown (while the tips say they immunity lasts for only one second, the duration is actually 70 frames). This mechanic makes chain grabs virtually impossible to perform. Special moves involving grabs (such as Lucario's Force Palm and Kirby's Inhale) also affected by this mechanic.
While grabs cannot directly combo into each other, it is possible to use attacks between grabs to keep the opponent in hitstun. Luigi, Ness, Sheik, and Roy are examples of characters with notable combos involving these pseudo-chain grabs. Additionally, Donkey Kong's cargo throws do not count by the game as grabs for this mechanic, allowing him to still chain grab opponents with his cargo down throw from low to mid percents when on a moving platform (such as Smashville's) or against a wall.
Video
- DK's Release Grab on Kirby
- DK Chain Grabbing using walls
- Ganondorf Chain Grabbing Falco, 0% to death
- Ice Climber's Chain Grabbing Falco
- King Dedede Chain Grabbing Marth on Shadow Moses Island
- Marth Infinite Chain Grabbing Ness
- King K Rool solo chain grab
- King K Rool and Ridley coop chain grab
- Ice Climer's infinite full walk off
- Ice Climber's 0 to Death Combo
References
http://smashboards.com/threads/ssbwu-3ds-luigi-chain-grab.379906/
http://smashboards.com/threads/shieks-chaingrab.371689/#post-17745129
