User talk:Ganonmew/Archive 1

Hi there!

Welcome!

Welcome to our wiki, and thank you for your contributions! There's a lot to do around here, so I hope you'll stay with us and make many more improvements.

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I'm really happy to have you here, and look forward to working with you!

Nyargleblargle (Talk) 16:08, 17 August 2015 (EDT)

Thank you so much. I will be pleased to help contribute my knowledge (even though I've only started breaking new ground in 2014 lol). Ganonmew (talk) 16:10, 17 August 2015 (EDT)

Hi there

I wanted to make things clear, as I saw your previous edit summary about you wanting to leave. Any backlash you get from other users should be taken as nothing more than constructive criticism (most of the time). Most of us just want to be helpful, and as far as I know, none of us want you to leave. Serpent King (talk) 21:37, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Thanks man. I do have issues, but I tend to not improve on my mistakes, and I want this wiki to thrive. Also, school is about to start, which means my active time is much less. So I just want to make sure I don't tear the wiki down. I might just be being sensitive tho, I am sensitive to criticism, as I've never been a very liked user on anything. Ganonmew (talk) 21:42, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Also for future reference, make sure when you saw user violate the policy, look at their talk page first before you comment, unless it is today violation. Past violation that is few weeks older, don't do the new section, since another user covers that thing up earlier before you do. Luigi540 (talk) 22:15, 22 August 2015 (EDT)

Shield Breaker and ZSS and my response from your edits to Brian's talk page

First: You're wrong. Like what Brian said, most characters besides Sheik can simply grab or hit you out of it with anything that is below 30 frames, even if it is a weak attack. Some of the weak attacks will either follow up into other attacks, puts you in a difficult position, or follow up into powerful attacks that can KO early (ex. Ryu, Zero Suit Samus).

Second: Ever watch ZeRo's video about why Zss is 2nd tier? Zss is a dangerous character to play against and not to be underestimate. She has high traction and mobile. Like I said, she has the best punishing ability in the game, that will KO you early than you think, even with little mistake. She's a rushdown character. You're not gonna land Shield Breaker, even in mixups because if a good player powershields or not get shield broken, you eat a grab and most likely you will be KO'd very early (yes, I'm talking about down throw, uair, uair, up B and get KO'd early). And if you do that when you are at high percent, she can Boost Kick you out of shield and you get KO'd as well. She has a great recovery; You hit her off stage, she will comeback no matter what you do. It's no joke. Marth has a difficult time making comeback against good ZSS player. Luigi540 (talk) 22:22, 28 August 2015 (EDT)

ZSS was not a character I was directly talking about. Even with her low traction, I get that she is scary. Also, other characters with weak punishes cannot follow them up because of their poor speed, power, mobility or all, not including someone like Sheik, Ryu, or ZSS. Who I'm talking about is someone like Dedede (I honestly can't stress enough how trash he is), Ganondorf, and Lucario. Ganonmew (talk) 19:11, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

This

I'm not going to scare you about this or make you inactive but I'm telling you this. That discussion is 6 months old and it is unnecessary and waste of time. Do not repeat that in the future when the discussion date is older and no one is talking about that anymore. Only you can post it when there is something going on currently (like delete/merge debate). Also read SW:TALK. Luigi540 (talk) 18:57, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

He was only adding his sig. That's fine, right? Serpent∞King (talk) 19:02, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

Ok, I will, but I just felt like Brian completely ignored OT, and I just felt the the need to say it.

Also @Serpent King, yes, I only did, but technically it would revive the conversation.

Edit: How did I violate SW:TALK? Ganonmew (talk) 19:06, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

The SW:TALK stated "If what you have to discuss has been discussed to resolution before, and you got nothing new to add or nothing happened since the discussion's resolution to make it outdated/irrelevant, do not bring the old discussion back up. Similar to the above, Do not directly reply to an old comment, and even if the discussion isn't archived, do not comment on old discussions that have been resolved, unless you have something new to add. As a general rule, if the last comment in a discussion is over a month old, and the discussion appears to have been resolved, do not post a comment in it." Luigi540 (talk) 19:13, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

Noted. Ganonmew (talk) 19:15, 29 August 2015 (EDT)

I don't think you understand about SW:TALK as I see what you edit in Brian's talk page on old discussion. I think you need to reread SW:TALK. There's no excuse for continuing old discussion. Luigi540 (talk) 21:17, 31 August 2015 (EDT)

My most recent edit on your userpage

Figured I'd help you out with that. You had a good start, you were just (to put it in the nicest way I can) doing it incorrectly. Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 00:34, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

Thanks, much obliged. Ganonmew (talk) 07:36, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

I would like to nicely ask you...

...to stop harassing Brian. Sure he personally attacks users but that doesn't mean that you should be mean back to him; you're basically making the situation worse if you continue. Dots (talk) The Orange 13:50, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

Ok. But if he acts up again, I will do something about it. Ganonmew (talk) 13:51, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

Ganonmew: It sounds like you don't understand about something. Don't get me wrong. People can be hostile sometimes using their feelings. You really don't see how user like Brian feels about something about the game and edits. Brian's feeling is different than other users, because of being a good Melee player and knowledgeable user, unlike non knowledgeable, vandal user. Of course, he's one of many Melee players to dislike Brawl and Smash 4. Like Aidanzapunk, we can't force him to take care of it, to worsen his feelings. That is a abuse and you would get involve in a crossfire. Do that and you get a bark and no bite. In other words, that would be meaningless. In addition, adding untrue edits on character's attributes and gameplay, unless you bring up true information, would make it more worse with his feelings, as he demonstrated that against Epsilon. When I see him utilizing personal attacks to not knowledgeable user, I feel bad for him for what he deserves few years ago. Leaving him alone could make it better. Using the knowledge what great professional players agree on will make it better, though not all the time, unless you demonstrate the understanding of the game and character. Luigi540 (talk) 13:58, 6 September 2015 (EDT)

I see your point. I'm simply just not going to interact with his talk page and see if that makes it better. Ganonmew (talk)|

Shulk's frame data.

Here is Shulk's Frame Data.

Here is Ganondorf's frame Data.

Here is King Dedede's Frame Data.

Eventhorizon (talk) 17:59, 11 September 2015 (EDT)

Might I ask where the lag section is? Ganonmew (talk) 18:26, 11 September 2015 (EDT)

The FAF (First Actionable Frame) is the first frame where they can take another action. Landing Lag is self explanatory, hopefully aerial autocancel frames are as well.

For example Ganondorf can act after his Fsmash on frame 60. Shulk can act after his Fsmash after frame 68. So Ganondorf can turn, shield, dodge etc 8 frames before Shulk can do anything if they both Fsmash at the same time.

Moves than Ganondorf can act out of faster than Shulk: every move except Utilt, Dtilt (by 2 frames), Grabs, and Fair. Special moves are too different to compare.

When comparing landing lag dont forget that Ganondorf's Uair and Bair autocancel from a short hop (so he almost never has to deal with their lag), Dair and Nair autocancel from Fullhops. Shulk's aerials do not autocancel even when you double jump, other than fair which can autocancel if you do a rising fair and drift during the entire jump (so never as available as a regular full jump). Eventhorizon (talk) 18:52, 11 September 2015 (EDT)

Ok let's see here:

1) Shulk's aerials do not autocancel even when you double jump

What, all of Shulk's aerials autocancel from at least a full hop except nair (which has very low landing lag so you are usually going to use it when fast falling a short hop anyway).

2) You seem to only be talking about ending and landing lag: you are forgetting the critical thing: startup. Ganondorf's up tilt has 80-87 frames of startup, so really all you will be using it for is edgeguarding, when Shulk's can be used easily to rack up damage. As for a comparison to Dedede, let's look at smashes. Your fram data lacks startup, but I know off the top of my head that all of Shulk's smashes have some sort of hitbox active before Dedede's (and Shulk's are also more consistent in power when you mix in Monado Arts, but even without them they are more consistent than Dedede's).

3) Shulk's moves are not any faster than the other two (but not much slower either), but at least almost all of them have the correct caliber of a punish unlike Dedede's, and actually have good range unlike Ganondorf (he also outranges everyone else in the series for every attack except a few exceptions, such as his forward tilt being outranged by Brawl Dedede's). He doesn't have trouble getting hits in or even punishing with some reasonable knockback. And endlag doesn't really matter: it doesn't keep you from landing a hit.

I admire the way you brought me frame data, but you seem to have gotten some things wrong. Ganonmew (talk) 08:00, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Edit: You are right about none if them autocanceling in a full hop except fair, but all except nair and up air autocancel from a double jump. Ganonmew (talk) 20:01, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

About the Marth (SSB4) mishap

That Ending/Landing mixup was not my fault, It was yours. I just stepped in to reword the section of text you added to the page... (-: INoMed, King of Demons (Talk) 08:06, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Huh? What do you mean? You changed it to endlag. :/ Ganonmew (talk) 08:08, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

I checked the page history, it really was my fault. Sorry! INoMed, King of Demons (Talk) 08:14, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Lol I'm dying. It's fine. Ganonmew (talk) 08:15, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Now you are dying. (warning, cursing). Serpent∞King (talk) 08:21, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

Makes sense (the dying part). It's a JonTron video. Ganonmew (talk) 08:24, 13 September 2015 (EDT)

A heads up.

Your bin is not exempt from This policy, Toomai's version does. (Only because he/she is a bureaucrat, (Yes, I know that Admins/bureaucrats/Porplemontages are not kings.)) INoMed (Talk) 11:35, 27 September 2015 (EDT)

Welp, I'll change that. Ganonmew (talk) 11:54, 27 September 2015 (EDT)

Ganondorf question

You seen to like playing as Ganondorf as well. I've got a question for you: What custom set do you like to play with, if any? I prefer 2122, since it addresses most of his recovery problems and makes him even more powerful. John PK SMAAAASH!! 19:12, 28 September 2015 (EDT)

Please take these kinds of questions here. But I'll answer. I occasionally use the same set, but usually I will use 1122 because Blade, despite fixing Punch's range issues and makes it even deadlier to shields and giving opponents less time to react, even the tipper is weaker than Punch and gives it even more endlag. Also, never use any other of Ganondorf's customs beyond 1/2122, all others are downgrades. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 19:45, 28 September 2015 (EDT)

If you are having trouble with signatures...

You can transclude a page into your signature line like I do. Just make a Sig subpage in your userspace and put {{User:Ganonmew/Sig}} in your signature line. It makes editing your signature a lot easier, trust me. Serpent∞King (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2015 (EDT)

Well thanks! Right now there is nothing for me to change. As of now, I am steaming more and more at the new update. Also, your edit summary ("pooooop") had me cracking up. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 20:47, 30 September 2015 (EDT)

Uh you do realize you can turn off autocorrect right? Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 20:48, 30 September 2015 (EDT)

Ganondorf changes

Hey, if you want to check out the changes I want for Ganondorf, here you go! Sausage12 (talk) 19:46, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

It is decent, but it has some flaws:

1. Are you kidding about Ganon's walk speed? Uh...
2. Warlock Punch's main weakness is its endlag, increasing it farther would make it borderline useless.
3. Some of the changes were very underwhelming: such as Dark Dive/Vault, and the fact that in your vision, his up and back throws are still useless.

Overall a decent run-of-the-mill list of changes, but it doesn't solve much. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 20:44, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

Actually, startlag is Warlock Punch's failing attribute, just like Falcon Punch. It doesn't have that much end lag. Serpent∞King (talk) 20:48, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

Also, how to buff Ganondorf 101: Give him a sword. Serpent∞King (talk) 20:48, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

@Both of you, lemme see:

1. I'm with OT that giving Ganon a sword is a really bad idea because it would actually make him a less unique character because of Ike (Power swordfighter) and Robin (Magic swordfighter). It would also be a major departure from the character we know.
2. What, Warlock Punch has a ton of endlag, the startup doesn't matter because of super armor. Falcon Punch might have even more endlag than Warlock.
3. I'm playing as Ganon right now!
4. @Sausage12: Try and keep userspace editing to a low because I would really hate to see you get probated. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 20:54, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

Oh we're not talking about melee. My bad. Serpent∞King (talk) 20:56, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

Welp sorry. When do you plan on getting Sm4sh? Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 20:58, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

The very moment I can afford it (also would need a wii u + gc adapter. Not to mention DLC). It'll be a while. Serpent∞King (talk) 21:00, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

On the Ganon note, I'm surprised how many Ganon mains are on the wiki (myself, Shadow, maybe Sausage12, and Omega Tyrant, the one who inspired me to be the scrub-slaying Ganon main I am today), and those four are just off the top of my head. Also, to afford the DLC, you might need an excess of $30. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 21:03, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

Yes, I do main Ganondorf. I feel like many of these changes (except up throw) are realistic changes. Remember, we don't want any characters to be overpowered now do we? I made a couple more changes to make him even better. As for walking speed, the guy has a slow walk in the Legend of Zelda games. Plus, it will look spooky. Go check it out again and see what you think. Sausage12 (talk) 22:15, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

Not fluctuating what are already literally crippling to him is not gonna make him overpowered. Also, with the Medusa thing, I'm having a really hard time taking you seriously. You could just keep the walking speed the same, it's one of the biggest things holding him back. Also you don't know the surface of Ganon if you think keeping Dark Dive/Vault unreasonably weak would balance him. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 22:28, 3 October 2015 (EDT)

Is it better now? Sausage12 (talk) 21:56, 6 October 2015 (EDT)

Yeah. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 16:51, 7 October 2015 (EDT)

Just a note...

The Smasher Infobox has been updated to split the skill field by game. You should use this in your userpage :P Serpent∞King (talk) 21:02, 7 October 2015 (EDT)

I did. Also convenient how you said this RIGHT before I go to bed. :/ Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 21:05, 7 October 2015 (EDT)

Nono, there are parameters now for each game. (e.g. skillssbm=Awful) Serpent∞King (talk) 21:07, 7 October 2015 (EDT)

I'll do it tomorrow after school. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 21:19, 7 October 2015 (EDT)

I just did it to get it overwith. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 21:24, 7 October 2015 (EDT)

I noticed you took my tech skill table...

and didn't know what everything was. Let me clear that up right now.

• Crouch cancel: Basically, if you get hit by mid-weak attack while crouching, your knockback is reduced or cancelled all together, up to a certain %.
• Ledge Drop Attack: Grab the edge, tilt the stick away from it to let go, immediately double jump and do an aerial attack of your choice. careful with high endlag attacks and with fast fallers and characters with bad double jumps.
• Drop cancel: A very difficult maneuver (pros say it's the hardest thing to do in melee), in which you drop off a soft platform, immediately use an aerial and L-Cancel. You'll end up back on the platform. Fastest way to do an aerial attack, but a lot of pros don't bother with it (even M2K says it's a waste of time to learn). Serpent∞King (talk) 07:27, 9 October 2015 (EDT)

Ok, I'll redo it. BTW drop cancel doesn't seem THAT hard. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 16:44, 9 October 2015 (EDT)

Also 1) Fixed your typo. 2) Best wishes on your inactivity! Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 16:55, 9 October 2015 (EDT)

Your Ganondorf wishlist

I'm a bit confused about some of your inclusions on your wishlist. You clearly state that the changes below would make him fully viable, but in my opinion they would make him broken beyond belief. Here are some of the problems. 1) As heavy as Dedede? His weight is fine the way it is. 2) Crouch is lower? He's one of the tallest characters in the game! 3) Sidestep fastest in the game? He's supposed to be slow, so why give him a ridiculously fast sidestep? 4) You want to remove the sweetspot and give it LESS reach?! As a tall character, he should have MORE reach. 5) Forward tilt is already very good. Maybe give it more range. 6) Up tilt shouldn't deal any less damage. It functions very well. The sourspot should stay. Possibly 2 less frames of startup, but no more. 7) Down tilt is already near broken with high KO power, damage, and reach. 8) Up smash already deals a ridiculous amount of damage. 9) Warlock Punch... I'm speechless. 10) Dark dive and vault would be too strong. 11) Grounded Wizard's Foot be too powerful. Sausage12 (talk) 11:31, 10 October 2015 (EDT)

Ok let's see:

1. Maybe.
2. His crouch is higher than Bowser's and he is shorter.
3. This change was taken off of Project M.
4. See Melee jab.
5. I said giving it more range would make it OP.
6. It does more damage. Also, it is his utilt from PM.
7. It can't KO Sonic at 126%.
8. No, it doesn't, it only deals 3% more than Bowser's fsmash, if not less than that, and did more than 30% uncharged in Melee.
9. I gave it slower startup so anyone who gets hit by that deserves to die.
10. No, giving him a functional recovery would not make him broken.
11. It can't KO until 150%. And this is assuming it hits with the strongest part, the opponent doesn't DI, and you are next to the ledge.

I also plan on buffing other characters too, ya know. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 14:25, 10 October 2015 (EDT)