Talk:Meteor smash/Archive 1

How did Falcos D-air get into the Meteor smash page, everyone knows thats a spike?????

if no response will remove in two days

Also what happened to the U-tilt for Samus, it has been proven to be a meteor smash?? 1/3/08 Shameus

Mr. Game & Watch

Does Mr. G&W's down throw count as a meteor smash? It sends his foe straight down, and I'm not talking about throws them down, but actually makes them go up, like most down throws. I've used it to send foes through the clouds in Skyworld, and sometimes, when I'm really close to the ledge, I can send them straight down to their doom. I'm going to add it if nobody can tell me why not to. Maxiscool (talk) 02:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

If it actually can be used to send opponents straight down through platforms, then it qualifies. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 02:31, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

If you want any proof go to the Combo/Gameplay video at the bottom of Mr. G&W's page. It is at the VERY end, about 8:17. Maxiscool (talk) 16:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Spikes?

If all Brawl Meteor Smashes can't be canceled, aren't they in fact spikes, and shouldn't the section be moved there?–Entrea Sumatae 19:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Yoshi...

Sorry but I've tried using Yoshi's D-air in Brawl as a meteor smash, and I don't see that it is a meteor smash at all. Even more disturbing is that the author commented that it was "the most powerful drill kick meteor smash". I'm not sure what game he's playing, but in SSBB, Falcos d-air is definitely the most powerful drill kick meteor smash by far. Yoshi's is pathetic compared to that. Am I missing something?

Possibly. The only time I got KOd with it, the Yoshi player just dragged me down with them. Cafinator (talk) 16:06, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, that's the only way you can kill with it. That would make it an "incredibly weak" meteor smash, rather than a "powerful" one.

It's "powerful" in the sense that it deals 33% if you hit with all hits. Its spike is rather weak and his Fair is marginally better. 202.156.13.238 12:56, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Contradictory much?

I honestly don't know much difference between Spikes and Meteor Smashes, but in the Spike article it clearly states that the sweetspot of the Wolf Flash is indeed a Spike. The contradiction is that this article states that Brawl has no true spike. So which is it? Shade487z/SeniorSombra! 03:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

A spike can KO an opponent at very low percentages, such as Ness' D-air. A meteor smash is something like Mario's F-air or Lucas' D-air that "pushes" an opponent in a downward direction, and like a regular attack, is easier to use on opponents with high amounts of damage. Blue Ninjakoopa 03:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

You didn't answer my question. Does the "there are no spikes in Brawl as of yet" piece of info need to stay or not and if not what qualifies as a spike? Well...you kinda answered that last one. Shade487z/SeniorSombra! 04:22, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I guess it's ok if you removed it. Glad to be of service lol :) Blue Ninjakoopa 04:23, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

FINALLY! Someone explains the difference between spikes and meteor smashes! So a meteor smash is like a regular attack that powers up according to opponent's damage levels. Spikes can kill at low percentages. I hate how in these pages it uses technical terms and crap like "meteor cancelling" that no one can ever understand! Reptiliusofpeace (talk) 20:38, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Meteor canceling? You cancel the meteor. How hard is that? Shade487z/SeniorSombra! 21:22, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

And HOW do you cancel the meteor? Reptiliusofpeace (talk) 01:20, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

To meteor cancel, one must jump after approximately half of the meteor smash's hitstun has worn out. However mashing the jump button will only reset the time in which it is possible to meteor cancel. An easy alternative is to mash the up-special button with a character whose up-special in a recovery move. Y462 (T • C • E ) 01:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

So that's what that was? Should it be noted that the character canceling the meteor will glow white and sparkle as if he/she has just recovered health? 01:38, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

BNK, you're wrong about what the difference is. The difference in Melee was that spikes couldn't be meteor canceled. In Brawl, all spikes can be jumped out of after about half the duration of the hitstun. It's argued if this is "meteor canceling" or not, but it's irrelevant to the definition of a spike. The strength of the knockback also is irrelevant to its classification. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 02:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Wait, what? I didn't mean to give out any false information, sorry. I was trying to answer Shade's question the best I could. Blue Ninjakoopa 02:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think BNK was wrong (:P). Maybe spikes have a different definition than that, but there ARE certain "spikes" that kill at 0%, as well as those that power up over opponent's damage. He has a point. Reptiliusofpeace (talk) 20:43, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Spikes can kill even at the lowest percentages. The only thing that determines the chance of a meteor smash is the opportunity. Also, in Brawl, you can perform a meteor cancel much longer than in Melee; meaning, that the chances of meteor KOing the opponent has increased. SapphireKirby777 20:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

No, you're wrong. The damage that a move can kill at is irrespective of its classification as a spike vs. a meteor smash. Ganon's d-air can kill at 0% without a problem, but it can be meteor canceled, ergo it is a meteor smash, not a spike. Also note, as well as in response to the person below me, that the differences only appear in Melee. In SSB and SSBB the terms are used interchangeably as all moves classified by either of them have the same properties. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 19:13, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

So therefore the original has meteor smashes. That info is incorrect. Ike's Best Buddy/ Bird Of Prey^{Don't try me}

Even more contradiction

On several of the SSB character pages, including as an example, Kirby has 2, it states that the characters have spikes. On this page it states it was intro'd in melee. Can someone fix this please? Ike's Best Buddy/ Bird Of Prey^{Don't try me}

Hey i just noticed something

Wheres sonic on the list?

No Meteor Smash to speak of...same reason Sheik's not on the list. Shade487z 22:30, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

R.O.B.

Is R.O.B.'s down aerial a Meteor Smash or a spike?. In his page, on section "Atributes" states: "with his D-air acting as a Meteor Smash", and on the section "Moveset" says that his D-air is: "yet slow, but powerful, and can spike,...". I also noticed that Squirtle and Pikachu aren't in the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.153.152.213 (talk • contribs) 22:49, 10 August 2009

There are no Spikes in Brawl, only Meteor Smashes, so the Moveset section should say "and can meteor smash". Squirtle and Pikachu, among others, aren't on the list because they don't have meteor smashes - not every character has a meteor smash. PenguinofDeath 22:09, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Knockback

The knockback of a meteor smash is affected by characters falling speed, althought the difference is minimal. The faster falling speed, the stronger the knockback is. For example: if ROB uses his dair meteor smash against Jigglypuff (who has the slowest falling speed) hanging on the ledge of Final Destination stage, he will KO her at 27% , but if he uses it against King Dedede (with the fastest falling speed), ROB will KO him at 22%. It's worth adding it to the article? Ibermón (talk) 00:40, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Ness' down tilt

Omega Tyrant, Ness' down tilt is a meteor smash. It hits downward, not at an "80 degree angle". Please try using it with Ness, it is a spike. Please stop removing it. 98.111.95.78 04:54, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

I fully tested this attack, no matter how I hit Bowser at 999%, it sent him horizontally with the pull of gravity pulling him down, the definition of a semi-spike. When I tested it on the ground, it sent Bowser in the same trajectory, never popping him up like other meteors. How can it be good at edgeguarding anyway? It couldn't even send Bowser half the distance of Final Destination. This, combined with it's horrible reach makes it next to useless for edgeguarding. You are much better off using his dair or bair. User:Omega Tyrant 1:09, April 14, 2010 (Eastern Time)

You must be testing it wrong. Make sure you actually hit him when he was below you. For me, it clearly knocked him downward(straight). And it is useful. As it knocks your opponent slightly downward, you can follow up with a dair to KO. 98.111.95.78 05:20, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

I just tested it on Battlefield against Ganondorf and I still saw no proof it was a meteor smash. I was on a platform directly above Ganondorf, where I kept tripping him like the "sweetspot" is suppose to. But when I brought the damage up to 999%, it nevered popped him up like a meteor smash does and it sent him in the same semi-spike trajectory. I was directly above him when he was on the ledge, and it sent him in the same semi-spike trajectory, not in a meteor smash trajectory. Have you seen the graph on the semi-spike page? It perfectly describes the trajectory of his d-tilt. It may be useful for tripping opponents on the ground, but it is useless for edgeguarding. By the time it can produce any notable knockback, the oppononents would be well in the KO range for any of Ness's other attacks, not to mention the terrible reach of his d-tilt. I havn't seen it meteor smash and it is clearly a semi-spike. If you still dispute this, give me a detailed explanation on how you successfully tested it meteor smashing someone, don't just tell me it needs to be "sweetspotted". Omega Tyrant 1:40, April 14, 2010 (Eastern Time)

Meteor smashes don't knock someone up. They knock opponents downward, which it does. How is it a Semispike? Please show proof. 98.111.95.78 03:53, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

When someone is hit by a meteor smash while on the ground, they can't get sent down so they are sent straight up. As I said in the previous section, view the graph on the semi-spike page, it perfectly describes the d-tilt's trajectory. Omega Tyrant 4:27 April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I tested it out before I left when doing this; Ness' D-tilt was a semi-spike at best (999%). However, I didn't know there was a sweetspot for Ness' d-tilt. If you can, can you take a video/snapshot and post it somewhere? If we can see it, that probably would be good enough verification, no? RAN1 (talk • contributions) 04:41, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

I actually believe there is no sweetspot, but the unregistered contributer keeps insisting that it is a meteor smash, though my testing so far has proven it is a semi-spike. Omega Tyrant 4:55, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

edit conflict Well, I'd like to see what's his proof for this before we actually discount it. Since he's been around here for half a year now and quite the experienced contributor, I'm sure he'll be able to find some. RAN1 (talk • contributions) 05:05, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Please put up a video of your "testing". 98.111.95.78 05:01, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I do not own a video recording device. So if you want a video, the best I can do is if you trade wii codes and friend codes with me so I can send you a replay. Otherwise you'll have to tell me of a website or program that can decrypt replay files. You could instead post a video proving it's a meteor smash which would be better then me showing a video of hitting Ganondorf around with Ness's d-tilt. Omega Tyrant (talk) 05:13, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

In that case, we should find a video where Ness uses his down tilt on an air opponent. It shouldn't be too hard. 98.111.95.78 05:45, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

I just viewed some combo videos for Ness and none of them showed Ness using his d-tilt for edgeguarding. The fact of the matter is that his d-tilt is not a premier edgeguarder, especially when Ness has his awesome dair and bair. It is going to be rather difficult finding a video showcasing the edgeguarding prowess of his d-tilt. I would also like to thank you for the compliment about the Forward Smash Chart, no hard feelings. Omega Tyrant (talk) 06:32, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

One can argue the trajectory of a meteor smash but one cannot argue sheer numbers. A important aspect of meteor smashes is that they hit airborne opponents harder then grounded opponents. This applies to all meteor smashes except some special meteors and Charizard's dair. In the case of the special meteors, they just don't hit grounded opponents as a meteor, such as the Super Dedede Jump. In the case of Charizard, his dair actually hits grounded opponents harder. So I went and tested this on Ness's d-tilt against a 300% Jigglypuff. While on the ground, her launch speed was 1225mph. While on the ledge and in the air, her speed was again 1225mph. I boosted the damage ratio to 2.0 and again, all her launch sppeds were even at 2450mph. Just for comparision, I tested the launch speeds of Ness's dair, a well known meteor. Jigglypuff's speed on the ground was 9373mph. Her speed in the air and on the ledge was 12011 mph. As you can see, there is quite a difference. I also tested the launch speeds of Ganondorf's f-tilt, a well known semi-spike. Just like Ness's d-tilt, Jigglypuff's launch speed was the same on both the ground and in the air at 13023mph. As you can see, the ground/air law of meteor smashes doesn't apply to semi-spikes. All the data I collected indicates Ness's d-tilt is a semi-spike and not a meteor smash. Hopefully, this will be enough to convince you. Omega Tyrant (talk) 21:48, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Fine, you win. What does "mph" mean in this case though? 98.111.95.78 00:43, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

It's just the knockback units used by the game. It does not mean the presumed "miles per hour" or anything, it's just a bunch of letters. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 00:45, April 16, 2010 (UTC)