Talk:Kazuya (SSBU)

Do the characters Kazuya threw into the volcano reference other Tekken characters?

Was anybody else in Tekken thrown into an active volcano besides Heihachi and Kazuya? I initially thought the characters chosen were arbitrary, but then I realized that Ganondorf hasn't had a CG model in any Smash 4 or Ultimate trailer yet (he was in K. Rool's, but that was a still image), and Min Min's trailer was in a completely different animation style. I was thinking Ganondorf represents Heihachi, Min Min represents Xiaoyu, and Marth represents Yoshimitsu, but I don't know who Captain Falcon and Pit could relate to, and it still might be arbitrary. 72.219.72.215 05:08, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

I think Ganondorf is a loose Heihachi analogue being the game's standard beefy human/gerudo villain while the rest are mostly arbitrary with Min Min and Kirby being chosen for the gags they bring. Guybrush20X6 (talk) 05:43, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

Unless you're talking about adding a trivia point, this is not where you talk about this. SeanWheeler (talk) 11:02, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

Did Sakurai mean hitlag or hitstun?

For those who watched the presentation, at one point Sakurai said that Kazuya hardly has any hitstun. Unless my knowledge of the two terms is wrong, the animation afterwards shows Kazuya's attacks dealing hitlag when he hits them and they freeze before getting launched and then showing without hitlag when he hits them and they immediately get launched. I would think that hitsun would be necessary for his combos. Did he mean hitstun or hitlag (hitstop in other games I think)? SacredFire37 (talk) 11:38, June 28, 2021 (EDT)

It's evident he means freeze frames, which our community calls "hitlag" but the translator chose to write as "hitstun". (This is why people shouldn't be using both terms, because they're so confusing together.) Toomai Glittershine The Researcher 11:43, June 28, 2021 (EDT)

In the presentation I heard him say "hitstop", which is what we call "hitlag". Additionally, just looking at the footage and his example, there is no hitlag. --CanvasK (talk) 11:50, June 28, 2021 (EDT)

Indeed, "Hitstun shuffling" is Nintendo's official term for SDI, which is performed during what we call hitlag, so at the very least it is internally consistent (if still confusing in the greater context of FGC linguistics). DevNode (talk) 12:39, June 28, 2021 (EDT)

Vernacular for "Uncrouching Attack"

The broader FGC already has a term for this type of input, "While Standing" or "While Rising", abbreviated "WS" (because "WR" is instead understood to be "While Running"). As the input is inherited to Smash as a direct result of a Tekken character's inclusion, I think it would at least be prudent and respectful to use this pre-existing terminology on the wiki page, both for players getting involved in Smash from a prior background in Tekken and for players who decide to immerse themselves in Tekken after trying and enjoying Kazuya's Smash gameplay. DevNode (talk) 00:15, June 29, 2021 (EDT)

Because Smash Bros. has floor attacks and edge attacks, both of which have been referred to as "standing" or "rising" attacks in the history of the Smash Bros. community, importing the term here is a poor and confusing choice. "Uncrouching" was selected due to its complete unambiguity, in addition to following the established pattern of naming moves after inputs. Toomai Glittershine Da Bomb 16:53, June 29, 2021 (EDT)

I should also note that people can call it a "standing" or "rising" attack all they want in the prose of a page (and I don't think we'd be able to stop them without banning everyone). The one context this matters is in the explicitly formulaic name of the move for technical purposes. Toomai Glittershine The Victorious 17:11, June 29, 2021 (EDT)

General moveset table organization

People are going to be upset with me that I am enforcing a certain standard for how the moveset table here is structured. I will attempt to explain why here.

• It is far more difficult to merge any of these moves together than it is to keep them apart. For example, we cannot simply pretend the up-forward tilt and down-forward tilt are simply angled variations of the forward tilt (like Little Mac's or Peach's f-smash), because they have a different number of segments. Therefore, it makes the most sense to keep them apart, and make a note of things such as sharing staleness slots (if it turns out that is the case).
• Having extra tables for extra moves (like the command inputs) is not desired because it breaks up "the moveset table" into multiple parts that will therefore have different column widths (which tends to look messy) and have prose jammed between screen-width tables (which is also messy). Yes I'm aware some other characters like Ken already do this. I have a plain to fix them too, at the same time as when I can modify the main template to handle the Kazuya stuff.

I will revisit this organization once the character is out and we have the technical data. Toomai Glittershine The Polychromatic 17:21, June 29, 2021 (EDT)

Why can’t we edit

Just wondering, as I had found out the damage output for the sweetspot in his forward smash (24.5% uncharged) when Sakurai landed it uncharged and wanted to add it, but I can’t MetaKnightX6 (talk) 17:57, June 29, 2021 (EDT)