Forum:The Project M debate: Difference between revisions
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It has come to my attention that this Project M thing is getting pretty big: it already has recognition and equal standing to the three real games on SmashBoards and in tournaments. And now, multiple people are requesting that we do the same here. | It has come to my attention that this Project M thing is getting pretty big: it already has recognition and equal standing to the three real games on SmashBoards and in tournaments. And now, multiple people are requesting that we do the same here. | ||
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===TCP: Yes=== | ===TCP: Yes=== | ||
Place your vote here if you would like to see <code>Character (PM)</code> pages that go into just as much depth as those for the real games. | Place your vote here if you would like to see <code>Character (PM)</code> pages that go into just as much depth as those for the real games. | ||
#I would be okay with this. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 13:04, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | #I would be okay with this. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 13:04, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | ||
#While I'm uneasy about giving some of these characters pages (as Toomai said below, "like Melee but a little bit like Brawl too" isn't very good) some characters (such as the Melee-exclusive veterans, who have character renders) I think are deserving of a separate page, and the metagame is vastly different in Project M from any other game as well, which makes pages slightly more interesting. IIRC there's a separate tier list as well, and that fulfills another part of the article. I would be okay with this, but not particularly saddened if the proposition fails. [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) 13:59, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | #While I'm uneasy about giving some of these characters pages (as Toomai said below, "like Melee but a little bit like Brawl too" isn't very good) some characters (such as the Melee-exclusive veterans, who have character renders) I think are deserving of a separate page, and the metagame is vastly different in Project M from any other game as well, which makes pages slightly more interesting. IIRC there's a separate tier list as well, and that fulfills another part of the article. I would be okay with this, but not particularly saddened if the proposition fails. [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) 13:59, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | ||
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# With the scope of PM's influence growing, I think it is a necessity to delve in-depth into to the characters, just like with the official games. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 03:39, 7 November 2013 (EST) | # With the scope of PM's influence growing, I think it is a necessity to delve in-depth into to the characters, just like with the official games. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 03:39, 7 November 2013 (EST) | ||
# Yes. P:M has a large number of fans and has large tournaments wherever Melee or Brawl tournaments are happening (mainly Melee). SmashWiki will never be complete, but it is missing a large chunk of the community without P:M. - [[User:Menace13|Menace13]] ([[User talk:Menace13|talk]]) at 22:06, 12 November 2013 (EST). | # Yes. P:M has a large number of fans and has large tournaments wherever Melee or Brawl tournaments are happening (mainly Melee). SmashWiki will never be complete, but it is missing a large chunk of the community without P:M. - [[User:Menace13|Menace13]] ([[User talk:Menace13|talk]]) at 22:06, 12 November 2013 (EST). | ||
# Yes! --[[User:Dinoboy411|Dinoboy411]] ([[User talk:Dinoboy411|talk]]) 11:18, 18 November 2013 (EST) | |||
|style="width:50%;border:2px solid #ff0000;background:rgba(255,0,0,0.125);padding:5px;vertical-align:top"| | |style="width:50%;border:2px solid #ff0000;background:rgba(255,0,0,0.125);padding:5px;vertical-align:top"| | ||
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====STMS: No==== | ====STMS: No==== | ||
Place your vote here if you think the effort required to extend the project is not worth it. | Place your vote here if you think the effort required to extend the project is not worth it. | ||
#Should the individual character pages notion pass I do NOT want to have to deal with doubling the project workload for minimal gain. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Eggster 12:44, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | #Should the individual character pages notion pass I do NOT want to have to deal with doubling the project workload for minimal gain. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Eggster 12:44, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | ||
#Absolutely no need to go ''/that/'' far. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 13:04, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | #Absolutely no need to go ''/that/'' far. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 13:04, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | ||
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===TOI: Yes=== | ===TOI: Yes=== | ||
Place your vote here if you would like to see pages for other things that are PM-exclusive, such as stages and techniques. | Place your vote here if you would like to see pages for other things that are PM-exclusive, such as stages and techniques. | ||
#I partially support this, at least when it comes to PM-exclusive stages, as I tend to place equal emphasis on stages as I do characters. The non-exclusives could probably work as subsections or gallery images though. '''[[User:JamesHeart123|<font color="blue">James</font>]]'''[[File:JH-Heartless.png|15px|link=Special:Contributions/JamesHeart123]]'''[[User talk:JamesHeart123|<font color="orange">Heart</font>]]''' 17:42, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | #I partially support this, at least when it comes to PM-exclusive stages, as I tend to place equal emphasis on stages as I do characters. The non-exclusives could probably work as subsections or gallery images though. '''[[User:JamesHeart123|<font color="blue">James</font>]]'''[[File:JH-Heartless.png|15px|link=Special:Contributions/JamesHeart123]]'''[[User talk:JamesHeart123|<font color="orange">Heart</font>]]''' 17:42, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | ||
#Some entirely new things are in Project M like Dracula's castle and Turbo Mode. Some moves have been drastically changed and may need further documentation in the future for example Mewtwo's hovering.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 09:46, 17 October 2013 (EDT) | #Some entirely new things are in Project M like Dracula's castle and Turbo Mode. Some moves have been drastically changed and may need further documentation in the future for example Mewtwo's hovering.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 09:46, 17 October 2013 (EDT) | ||
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===TEQ: Partially=== | ===TEQ: Partially=== | ||
Place your vote here if you are okay with PM information in potentially any article, but only as a subset of Melee or Brawl information. | Place your vote here if you are okay with PM information in potentially any article, but only as a subset of Melee or Brawl information. | ||
#I can't say I have a problem in principle with PM info, but it really irks me to think of having "In Project M" sections on every page that don't have much to say other than "In PM, it works like Melee with a minor difference". I would much prefer seeing this under "In Melee" or "In Brawl" sections. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Eggster 12:44, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | #I can't say I have a problem in principle with PM info, but it really irks me to think of having "In Project M" sections on every page that don't have much to say other than "In PM, it works like Melee with a minor difference". I would much prefer seeing this under "In Melee" or "In Brawl" sections. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Eggster 12:44, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | ||
#Per Toomai. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 13:04, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | #Per Toomai. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 13:04, 16 October 2013 (EDT) | ||
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====STAI: Everywhere==== | ====STAI: Everywhere==== | ||
Place your vote here if you would like to see the PM article icon on any article that mentions it. | Place your vote here if you would like to see the PM article icon on any article that mentions it. | ||
#... | #... | ||
|style="width:33%;border:2px solid #ffff00;background:rgba(255,255,0,0.125);padding:5px;vertical-align:top"| | |style="width:33%;border:2px solid #ffff00;background:rgba(255,255,0,0.125);padding:5px;vertical-align:top"| | ||
====STAI: Limited==== | ====STAI: Limited==== | ||
Place your vote here if you think the PM article icon should only be on PM-exclusive pages. | Place your vote here if you think the PM article icon should only be on PM-exclusive pages. | ||
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Point #3 - I don't think we should always put P:M notes onto pages if it's not important. If it's something new that P:M adds, like input buffer control, there could be a mention of it on a related page that discusses how ''Brawl'' has the 10-frame buffer. However, for spikes, it's already assumed that P:M reverts it back so we don't necessarily need that information. --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 00:02, 9 November 2013 (EST) | Point #3 - I don't think we should always put P:M notes onto pages if it's not important. If it's something new that P:M adds, like input buffer control, there could be a mention of it on a related page that discusses how ''Brawl'' has the 10-frame buffer. However, for spikes, it's already assumed that P:M reverts it back so we don't necessarily need that information. --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 00:02, 9 November 2013 (EST) | ||
Hello? It's been a while. Not to sound impatient, but can we have a deadline or something, as in 'we will be moving forward with the above specifications at XX date'? The above section has been up for 16 days and the last additions were a member going through the debates on the 12th and a Timson622222's comment on the 9th. Again, I apologize if this seems impatient. [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) 18:12, 19 November 2013 (EST) | |||
:I saw OT's input today (he's indifferent), so that's all the most active staff accounted for. I'll be doing some work here within the next week. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Labbie 18:16, 19 November 2013 (EST) | |||
::Alright, thanks. I'd be happy to help in any way I can. [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) 18:21, 19 November 2013 (EST) | |||
== The verdict == | |||
As nothing major has really changed since the preliminary verdict was issued, I think it's safe to say that it can be implemented pretty much as-is. To sum it up: | |||
*Characters get independent pages. Nothing else does. | |||
*Characters, relevant tournaments, and news items get a PM article icon. | |||
*Pages can have minor PM-related notes added. | |||
*SW:NOT will be altered appropriately. | |||
Within the next day or two, I will be creating relevant templates and three stubs: [[Mario (PM)]], [[Mewtwo (PM)]], and [[Charizard (PM)]]. Once the stubs are up, use their format to create other character articles and fill them in. I ask you not create any new pages until then, though you can add minor PM notes to existing articles. | |||
Finally, I will reply to some specific posts in this page that caught my attention: | |||
*TCP:No, vote 8 (72.53.134.85) You do bring up two good points: | |||
*#That this ruling may provide a foothold for nameless schmucks who want their personal mod recognized. This can't be denied, but at the very least we can keep our rules strict, and it's not like we haven't dealt with this issue in the past. | |||
*#That this wiki will outlive PM, which unlike the actual games won't be available on future Virtual Consoles, and so will eventually vanish. This is probably true, but I don't think it's a relevant argument against widening its scope right now. PM will always be important enough to mention even historically, and even if in the future it becomes underfoot enough for character pages to be unimportant, they can be stuffed back into the main page. | |||
*Prelim verdict, Miles: Placing character pages as subpages did occur to me as an option. However, in the end I figure it's relatively pointless. Subpages don't really do anything special aside from provide "up the tree" links under the title; such pages are still in the mainspace in all ways (can be accesed from Special:Random, appear in "mainspace" for magic words and statistics), with the added disadvantages of having a long name and being harder to search for. | |||
This is how things will go forward as of now. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Loony 13:20, 20 November 2013 (EST) | |||
==Reopening discussion== | |||
I hope this edit isn't out of place, but since we have had time to view the results of the verdict for PM information, I want to bring up a few things: | |||
*I feel that a small handful of other PM articles would be beneficial in organizing information about PM. I'm talking 4, maybe 5 articles at a max. Dracula's Castle and Skyloft could use one. So could Turbo Mode, and maybe one for aerial glide tossing. There currently is no place for information on the new stages, and Turbo mode has a random assortment of data stuffed into the PM article awkwardly. It could use its own article with its own sections to actually get the information down. | |||
*For people working on character articles, I feel that the Mario one is a pretty good one to use as a reference for the others. We don't need those funky {{t|for|the unmodded version...}} things at the top, that information can just be put into the infobox. It should mention the series that the character comes from, just like any other character page, and it should have an attributes paragraph or two documenting the character's strengths and weaknesses in a mostly objective manner. Meaning rather than talking about changes in the attributes section ("Forward smash is now stronger"), talk about them in a way that is meaningful and self-contained without requiring knowledge of the character base ("Forward smash is extremely powerful"). | |||
*Those custom CSPs have got to go. They're unofficial, have the color bar/warning signs on them, and are low quality. We need a consistent set of images to use throughout the character articles, preferably renders and not any ripped CSPs. We could use Brawl's, but we don't have any for Roy/Mewtwo or Pokemon trainer Pokemon. So wweh. | |||
[[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 06:18, 24 February 2014 (EST) | |||
Bump. I still feel that a couple of other PM pages would be fitting. | |||
[[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 16:56, 25 February 2014 (EST) | |||
==About Custom Stages== | |||
I think each stage available in Project M (Except for the ones that have only received minor edits) should be mentioned on the stage's specific page, as well as its actual Tournament status in PM. Of course this would mean creating all new pages for the three Project M exclusive stages: Dracula's Castle, Training Room and Skyloft. Project M in-game snapshots should also be uploaded rather than using the N64 or Melee images.--[[User:Wolfy76700|Wolfy76700]] ([[User talk:Wolfy76700|talk]]) 16:57, 13 September 2014 (EDT) |
Latest revision as of 19:18, December 21, 2014
It has come to my attention that this Project M thing is getting pretty big: it already has recognition and equal standing to the three real games on SmashBoards and in tournaments. And now, multiple people are requesting that we do the same here.
At present, SW:NOT defines that we should keep away from fanon and fan games due to the impossibility of defining a notability criteria. However, Project M has a few properties that make it hard to fit into this generality:
- It defines its own notability criteria by being the only Brawl hack to reach widespread public recognition and tournament participation.
- It is only ambiguously a fan game, as it is a hack and not a bottom-up recreation. Highly notable hacks do have a place on-wiki.
The current policy on notable hacks (including Project M) is to contain all info about the hack on a single page and refrain from mentioning it on other pages. This debate is to determine whether we should change this policy, and in what way.
Process[edit]
This page has several sections. Read every section before you vote in any of them; some are mutually exclusive. The rules of voting are as follows:
- Place your vote in each applicable section. Make sure to sign your votes.
- You may include a reason with your vote, or you may not. If you do choose to include a reason, do not argue with what others have already said, as this is sure to be a controversial subject and arguing doesn't help anybody. Instead, put your entire opinion on the table. Express your reasoning as completely as possible, preferably without referring to anyone else's reasons, so that you will not need to elaborate in the future.
- If what you want to see has no option, vote in whatever's closest and state what you want to see as your reason. If enough others decide to side with this option it may be added for real.
- You may change your votes and/or reasons at any time, ensuring that it still conforms to the above.
- Votes that are unnecessary (a "no" in a subtopic where the user already voted "no" in the parent topic) will be deleted. Unsigned votes will be deleted, as will those with incorrect formatting. Reasons that break the given guidelines will be removed; the vote itself will remain. You can re-vote later if you do it properly.
- As with everything on the wiki, winning the vote does not guarantee winning the decision. Weight is given to arguments and voters' on-wiki experience. Recruiting new users from offsite to vote for your side will not help.
Topic: Allow Project M to have independent character pages[edit]
Note: A "Yes" decision here implies that relevant images, templates, and categories will also be allowed.
TCP: Yes[edit]Place your vote here if you would like to see
|
TCP: No[edit]Place your vote here if you think Project M character info should remain on the hack's main page.
|
Subtopic: Allow Project M to have moveset subpages[edit]
Note: If you voted "No" for individual character pages, do not vote here (your vote here is assumed "No").
STMS: Yes[edit]Place your vote here if you would like to see the moveset subpage project extended to PM.
|
STMS: No[edit]Place your vote here if you think the effort required to extend the project is not worth it.
|
Topic: Allow Project M to have other independent pages[edit]
TOI: Yes[edit]Place your vote here if you would like to see pages for other things that are PM-exclusive, such as stages and techniques.
|
TOI: No[edit]Place your vote here if you think Project M stage and technique info should remain on the hack's main page.
|
Topic: Give Project M equal standing with the real games[edit]
Note: "Equal standing" does not mean "part of the Smash Bros. series". The series itself will always be only the official games; the phrase "the Smash Bros. series" does not and will not refer to PM.
TEQ: Yes[edit]Place your vote here if you would like to see things like PM information in game-agnostic articles and PM links in infoboxes.
|
TEQ: Partially[edit]Place your vote here if you are okay with PM information in potentially any article, but only as a subset of Melee or Brawl information.
|
TEQ: No[edit]Place your vote here if you think info about Project M should not be visible on any page that is not directly related to the hack.
|
Subtopic: Usage of Project M article icon[edit]
STAI: Everywhere[edit]Place your vote here if you would like to see the PM article icon on any article that mentions it.
|
STAI: Limited[edit]Place your vote here if you think the PM article icon should only be on PM-exclusive pages.
|
STAI: None[edit]Place your vote here if you think PM should not even get an article icon.
|
Votes: Delete notable hacks such as Project M from the wiki[edit]
Finally, there will be those who do not believe that even the most notable of hacks deserve representation on a wiki whose mission statement is to document the Smash Bros. series as unbiasedly as possible. This section is for those people to post their votes. If you intend to vote here, do not place a vote for the other topics.
- ...
Preliminary verdict[edit]
As of this time it appears the community's opinions have become mostly clear:
- Project M is too big to ignore, and with the widespread character changes and much-hyped additions, the project should get independent character pages if nothing else.
- Moveset subpages are not currently of importance; the effort required to create and maintain them during active development is not worth the benefit.
- There isn't currently enough notable changes aside from characters to warrant independent pages for other elements.
- Important PM notes can be noted in non-PM-exclusive articles, but as a whole should remain cordoned off in the main article.
- Using a PM article icon is acceptable for PM character pages and tournaments.
Should the discussion close now, this is what would happen:
Character (PM)
pages would be created for all Brawl characters plus PM additions. They would be placed inCategory:Characters (PM)
and the like, and given the PM article icon.- Tournaments holding PM events would get the PM article icon.
- Categories such as
Screenshots (PM)
would be created as necessary. - Pages can have minor PM-related notes added, such as putting something like "In PM, the detection angle is reverted to Melee's range, so spikes exist" in the Brawl section of the meteor smash article.
- Policies such as SW:NOT would have exceptions added for PM.
If you have a serious problem with going forward with this as written, and you feel like you need to say something you haven't said above, speak now. Remember to only state your full opinion and not argue with others'. Remember that like all wiki policies, this can change in the future if enough support arises, but as of this time this is what would happen. Toomai Glittershine Le Grand Fromage 12:26, 3 November 2013 (EST)
- The only capacity in which character pages for Project M should go forward is as clear subpages to the Project M subpage itself. I repeat that it should not even be mentioned in the mainspace outside of articles specifically about hacking/mods and pages for tournaments that include Project M events. SmashWiki should keep its mainspace emphasis quite strictly on the actual official games of the series, regardless of Project M tournament play. Miles (talk) 12:32, 3 November 2013 (EST)
Point number two: As long as there are people willing to write the moveset subpage articles (which there will be), I don't see what's wrong with having them, and the information can be changed as the game is developed (which shouldn't be hard to do). Awesome Cardinal 2000 18:07, 3 November 2013 (EST)
Point #3 - I don't think we should always put P:M notes onto pages if it's not important. If it's something new that P:M adds, like input buffer control, there could be a mention of it on a related page that discusses how Brawl has the 10-frame buffer. However, for spikes, it's already assumed that P:M reverts it back so we don't necessarily need that information. --Timson622222 (talk) 00:02, 9 November 2013 (EST)
Hello? It's been a while. Not to sound impatient, but can we have a deadline or something, as in 'we will be moving forward with the above specifications at XX date'? The above section has been up for 16 days and the last additions were a member going through the debates on the 12th and a Timson622222's comment on the 9th. Again, I apologize if this seems impatient. Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon (talk) 18:12, 19 November 2013 (EST)
- I saw OT's input today (he's indifferent), so that's all the most active staff accounted for. I'll be doing some work here within the next week. Toomai Glittershine The Labbie 18:16, 19 November 2013 (EST)
- Alright, thanks. I'd be happy to help in any way I can. Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon (talk) 18:21, 19 November 2013 (EST)
The verdict[edit]
As nothing major has really changed since the preliminary verdict was issued, I think it's safe to say that it can be implemented pretty much as-is. To sum it up:
- Characters get independent pages. Nothing else does.
- Characters, relevant tournaments, and news items get a PM article icon.
- Pages can have minor PM-related notes added.
- SW:NOT will be altered appropriately.
Within the next day or two, I will be creating relevant templates and three stubs: Mario (PM), Mewtwo (PM), and Charizard (PM). Once the stubs are up, use their format to create other character articles and fill them in. I ask you not create any new pages until then, though you can add minor PM notes to existing articles.
Finally, I will reply to some specific posts in this page that caught my attention:
- TCP:No, vote 8 (72.53.134.85) You do bring up two good points:
- That this ruling may provide a foothold for nameless schmucks who want their personal mod recognized. This can't be denied, but at the very least we can keep our rules strict, and it's not like we haven't dealt with this issue in the past.
- That this wiki will outlive PM, which unlike the actual games won't be available on future Virtual Consoles, and so will eventually vanish. This is probably true, but I don't think it's a relevant argument against widening its scope right now. PM will always be important enough to mention even historically, and even if in the future it becomes underfoot enough for character pages to be unimportant, they can be stuffed back into the main page.
- Prelim verdict, Miles: Placing character pages as subpages did occur to me as an option. However, in the end I figure it's relatively pointless. Subpages don't really do anything special aside from provide "up the tree" links under the title; such pages are still in the mainspace in all ways (can be accesed from Special:Random, appear in "mainspace" for magic words and statistics), with the added disadvantages of having a long name and being harder to search for.
This is how things will go forward as of now. Toomai Glittershine The Loony 13:20, 20 November 2013 (EST)
Reopening discussion[edit]
I hope this edit isn't out of place, but since we have had time to view the results of the verdict for PM information, I want to bring up a few things:
- I feel that a small handful of other PM articles would be beneficial in organizing information about PM. I'm talking 4, maybe 5 articles at a max. Dracula's Castle and Skyloft could use one. So could Turbo Mode, and maybe one for aerial glide tossing. There currently is no place for information on the new stages, and Turbo mode has a random assortment of data stuffed into the PM article awkwardly. It could use its own article with its own sections to actually get the information down.
- For people working on character articles, I feel that the Mario one is a pretty good one to use as a reference for the others. We don't need those funky {{for|<the unmodded version...>}} things at the top, that information can just be put into the infobox. It should mention the series that the character comes from, just like any other character page, and it should have an attributes paragraph or two documenting the character's strengths and weaknesses in a mostly objective manner. Meaning rather than talking about changes in the attributes section ("Forward smash is now stronger"), talk about them in a way that is meaningful and self-contained without requiring knowledge of the character base ("Forward smash is extremely powerful").
- Those custom CSPs have got to go. They're unofficial, have the color bar/warning signs on them, and are low quality. We need a consistent set of images to use throughout the character articles, preferably renders and not any ripped CSPs. We could use Brawl's, but we don't have any for Roy/Mewtwo or Pokemon trainer Pokemon. So wweh.
Ryxis (talk) 06:18, 24 February 2014 (EST)
Bump. I still feel that a couple of other PM pages would be fitting. Ryxis (talk) 16:56, 25 February 2014 (EST)
About Custom Stages[edit]
I think each stage available in Project M (Except for the ones that have only received minor edits) should be mentioned on the stage's specific page, as well as its actual Tournament status in PM. Of course this would mean creating all new pages for the three Project M exclusive stages: Dracula's Castle, Training Room and Skyloft. Project M in-game snapshots should also be uploaded rather than using the N64 or Melee images.--Wolfy76700 (talk) 16:57, 13 September 2014 (EDT)