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| | {{notice|See [[Forum:The Tier List, version 3]] for a more recent forum concerning the most recent tier list thus far. }} |
| {{Forumheader|Brawl Talk}}<!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ --> | | {{Forumheader|Brawl Talk}}<!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ --> |
| New [[tier list#SSBB tier list|tier list]]. Discuss. <span style="color:#4CBB17">--Posted by</span> [[User:Pikamander2|<span style="color:#007FFF">Pikamander2</span>]] <small>[[User Talk:Pikamander2|<span style="color:#007FFF">(Talk)</span>]]</small> at 22:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
| | {|align="right" style="border: solid 1px #CCC; padding: 1px; background-color:#FCFCFC" |
| {{BrawlTiers}}
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| | |<center>[[Image:Replacement filing cabinet.svg|40px|Archives]]</center> |
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| | |<center><span style="font-family:Verdana">'''Archives'''</span></center> |
| | ---- |
| | [[/Archive1|Archive 1]] |
| | |} |
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| == Old comments == | | == Random question == |
| :I already started a section on the old topic, but oh well. Lots of changes in the tier below top in this one. Every old high tier got moved, with Marth and Diddy getting to A Tier, DK and Wolf moving down and so on.- [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 22:22, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
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| CAPS LOCK GETS PEOPLES ATTENTION! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY NO ONE LIKES LUCAS! GO TO USER: MARQOOSE ON SMASH WIKI!!!
| | Even though it's a dumb idea, discussion about fully banning MK still exists and I've seen tourneys on AiB from time to time that do ban him. So if they did go all the way and add "MK is banned" to the SBR rules, would he be removed from the tier list? After all, it's those rules that created the environment that gave him his top place in the first place. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 16:42, 11 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | :I would think he would remain on the tier list, but in his own tier named "Broken" or something. Just so the noobs wouldn't complain with "u mised metaknight you dips" etc. |
| | :That said, it really shouldn't happen. From what I've heard, Yoshi is a strong enough counter that it won't come to that. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 17:16, 11 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | ::All I have to say to people complaining about the banning or complaining about him requiring banning is that if your grievances are so great, go play a different game. [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 21:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | :::I agree. '''[[User:Cheezperson|<span style="color:gold">Cheez</span><span style="color:red">person</span>]]''' {[[User talk:Cheezperson|<span style="color:steelblue">talk</span>]]}[[Special:Contributions/Cheezperson|<span style="color:silver">stuff</span>]]''' 00:58, 12 May 2009 (UTC) |
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| Why on earth did ZSS go up 5? Ness and Lucas should be at least C.
| | == In case nobody's heard about WHOBO == |
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| Once again. Jigglypuff went down, not happy. Ice climbers went down, not happy. Falco went up, happy. Wolf went down, not happy. [[User:Y462|Y462]] <small>([[User talk:Y462|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Y462|C]] • [[Special:Editcount/Y462|E]] )</small> 22:25, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
| | Check out the higher placements: |
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| YEAH!!!! Peach went up!!! Shes in the exact middle if you take the numbers away! [[User:JtM|JtM =^]]] ([[User talk:JtM|talk]]) 23:59, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
| | *1: M2K=meta knight |
| | *2: Dojo=meta knight |
| | *3: DSF= meta knight/snake/wario |
| | *4: Lee Martin=lucario/meta knight |
| | *5: Tyrant=meta knight |
| | *5: Co18=king dedede |
| | *7: Domo=meta knight |
| | *7: Melee1=ice climbers/meta knight |
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| Ya know, Im gonna make my own page with commentary on this. [[User:Cheezperson/tier talk|Go here]] to see my views. '''[[User:Cheezperson|<span style="color:gold">Cheez</span><span style="color:red">person</span>]]''' {[[User talk:Cheezperson|<span style="color:steelblue">talk</span>]]}[[Special:Contributions/Cheezperson|<span style="color:silver">stuff</span>]]''' 00:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
| | Meta Knight and other high tiers. Discussion plz.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 23:23, 11 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | :That's why they're high-tier. Nothing else to discuss. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 23:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | ::(Insert BS from anti-tiers about how this reinforces tiers). I wish I could find the entire results, and watch the low tiers be last.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 23:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC) |
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| I'm really not liking the Sonic Riders-style "SS Tier" bit; what was wrong with High, Mid, Low? Anyways, Kirby's up one, which I like. Falco went up, which I like. Marth is back on the top, but R.O.B. going down disappoints me. Wario's too high for his own good (Wario for bottom tier!). Olimar's skyrocket was expected. Wolf shouldn't have gone down. Luigi should have gone down, Zelda up. Link's finally gone up! Ness and Lucas are going the wrong way, and that's all I have to say.--[[User:Meta-K|Meta-K]] ([[User talk:Meta-K|talk]]) 00:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC) | | So, are you implying that MK should be banned because of WHOBO's results, or something else? [[User:Y462|Y462]] <small>([[User talk:Y462|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Y462|C]] • [[Special:Editcount/Y462|E]] )</small> 00:49, 12 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | : I think his point in posting that was to show that top-tiers are in the top for a reason. Beforehand, people were just SAYING that but now we've got evidence. Plus, WHOBO was pretty freakin big and had really good players, making this example even more legit. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 01:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | :Every character can beat every character, remember that. For some it is easy and for others it is hard, but the point is that it is possible. Say a Mario player is fighting a Snake player. The Mario player will fight him differently than he would fight someone like Bowser or Yoshi because Snake has the supreme advantage over him. That means the Mario player will spam moves like fireball and b-air because all of his other moves < Snake's. Sakurai may have failed, but in every game, every character stands a chance. Tl;dr: Banning MK would be dumb, even for many reasons besides this one. <span style="border:2px outset #ff66ff;background-color: #66ff99;-moz-border-radius:3px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#9900ff;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#9900ff">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 15:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | ::"Every character can beat every character, remember that." I am not saying that is not true, but it is really hard to believe when you consider the Sheik vs. Ganondorf matchup or the Ice Climbers vs. Ganondorf matchup. [[User:Y462|Y462]] <small>([[User talk:Y462|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Y462|C]] • [[Special:Editcount/Y462|E]] )</small> 23:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | :::The fact is that it's still believable. That little 5 that Ganondorf has against Sheik? That's the five that can let him win... through tremendous effort of course. <span style="border:2px outset #ff66ff;background-color: #66ff99;-moz-border-radius:3px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#9900ff;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#9900ff">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 02:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | ::::Seriously. To beat a Shiek, you just gotta space, punish, and then edgeguard (Uair semi spike or THE THUNDER BOOT, anyone?). To beat IC's, do like Ike does against them: Keep them separated. I'm not saying it'll be easy, but never impossible. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 02:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC) |
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| IMO, this version is a little better. R.O.B. and Wolf can no longer be targeted by scrubs as "cheap" now that they're low enough, but unfortunately, neither can Pit. I wish Mario and Ness would be placed in their rightful places, which is the 'C' tier, being that they have balanced attributes. Then again, their terrible recoveries would bring them to the 'D' ranking. I'm amazed at Olimar's placement O.o His recovery is terrible, as it doesn't grab the ledge 100% of the time, and he's very light, but he does have fast, strong smashes and aerials as well as outstanding speed. I also see how Ganondorf and C. Falcon haven't moved >.> <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 00:32, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :Tier listing doesn't mean that scrubs will still call characters cheap. I'm actually a bit surprised that ZSS and Olimar went up, and Pokemon Trainer went down. '''[[User:Cheezperson|<span style="color:gold">Cheez</span><span style="color:red">person</span>]]''' {[[User talk:Cheezperson|<span style="color:steelblue">talk</span>]]}[[Special:Contributions/Cheezperson|<span style="color:silver">stuff</span>]]''' 00:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::What? I'm saying that the common scrub will call anything cheap so long as it's associated with a high tier character, and you should know that by now. If a scrub calls a lower tier character cheap, then that scrub should then be known as a n00b. ZSS is really good, actually. <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 00:54, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::Scrubs come in all shapes and sizes. Don't be discriminatory against the scrubs who call low tier characters cheap lol! ZSS isn't as good as Toon Link. Or Pit. Or Wolf '''[[User:Cheezperson|<span style="color:gold">Cheez</span><span style="color:red">person</span>]]''' {[[User talk:Cheezperson|<span style="color:steelblue">talk</span>]]}[[Special:Contributions/Cheezperson|<span style="color:silver">stuff</span>]]''' 01:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::lol <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 01:07, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::I'm sure that there are plenty of non-n00b scrubs out there who have whined about stuff like [[Sacred Combo|this]] at least once, which has nothing to do with tiers. But yes, I do agree with CP (I used to like ZSS, but I find Samus is actually better now). Toon Link should be higher.--[[User:Meta-K|Meta-K]] ([[User talk:Meta-K|talk]]) 01:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::::Toon Link is floaty, light, and easily juggled, and of course you agree with 'CP'. :roll: <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 01:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::::Sonic and Link went up but, only by a couple of places. Still, at least they went up. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 02:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Not many complaints from me, really. MK and Snake are broken beyond all imagination so yeah...it's nice to see Falco up higher IMO, and Marth and Diddy needed that boost. Wario really should've gone down, and idk why R.O.B. did. Olimar shot WAAAY up, which is suprising but not all that bad I guess. Kirby needs to be even higher but it's cool that he got bumped up, but I wonder what caused DK and IC to drop so much? ZSS shot up which is cool, and Pit got brought down like he deserves :D. Why Wolf got lowered is beyond me, and the same goes for Bowser. Fox got lowered AGAIN lol. WTH how did Lucas tie with Ness? I can't belive Sonic went up and PT went down, but Samus did deserve to go upwards some. Yay Link went up, but Gdorf went down D: [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font><font color="black">487</font><font color="yellow">z</font>]]/[[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="silver">Senior</font><font color="blue">Sombra!</font>]] 02:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
| | Yea, thats when mastering your character comes in handy. -SmashBros Vet. |
| | :I never would have thought of that. You mean I shouldn't be going into tourneys without knowing what I'm doing. lol. Really, every pro has "mastered" their character so to speak. It's only when the characters are mastered that the tier list beings to take effect. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 18:15, 13 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | ::Was that really necessary? <span style="border:2px outset #ff66ff;background-color: #66ff99;-moz-border-radius:3px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#9900ff;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#9900ff">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 18:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | :::The problem is that it shouldn't have to be necessary. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 19:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC) |
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| :Finally, Meta Knight and Snake are separated from the rest. But I don't think that Snake should get his own tier, he should be with MK. I'm glad that Falco and Olimar moved up, and Kirby got a bump. However, I'd still like to see the Mother boys get bumped up to at least E tier. -''[[User:Masq|<span style="color:green">Masq</span>]]'' <small>('''[[User talk:Masq|t]]'''/''[[Special:Contributions/Masq|c]]''/'''[[Special:Editcount/Masq|e]]''')</small> 02:31, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
| | ==Why Letters?== |
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| I expected Dedede to fall and Olimar to rise, but I though Wolf would've gotten higher if anything.[[User:E123Brawler|'''<font color="Red">E123</font>''']][[User talk:E123Brawler|'''<font color="Black">Brawler</font>''']] [[Special:Contributions/E123Brawler|'''<font color="Red">Ω</font>''']] 02:43, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
| | Does anyone know why the SBR used letters to name their tiers instead of the traditional "Top, High, Middle, Low, Bottom"? - <font face="times new roman">[[User:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:purple">'''GalaxiaD'''</span>]]</font><font face="times new roman"> <sup>[[User Talk:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:black">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup></font> 04:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC) |
| | | :More tiers this time around. It's simpler than trying to make intermediate names like "High-High", "High-Mid", etc. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 18:04, 28 May 2009 (UTC) |
| What the hell does everyone have against Sonic? Ok, so he's not a Nintendo character. BIG DEAL. Sheesh... <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 03:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :I'm not bashing on him. And it's just opinions really. I think Sonic is FTW in Brawl, while others disagree. Just like I think Mewtwo in Melee is FTW and again others will disagree. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 03:22, 6 January 2009 (UTC) | |
| ::They both suck. Yeah, some people can elevate characters like Mewtwo and Sonic to high levels of play, but normally they both suck. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font><font color="black">487</font><font color="yellow">z</font>]]/[[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="silver">Senior</font><font color="blue">Sombra!</font>]] 03:34, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::lol that's your opinion, since they '''do not''' "suck", as you put it so harshly. Watch Taj's [[Shadowclaw]] videos on YouTube, then look at some Sonic combo vids later, so you can see that they have potential. I'm not taking any offense, I simply stating a fact. I agree with Unknown the Hedgehog as well. IMO, Pikachu sucks. That failure rat... <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 03:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::Shade proved my point about others disagreeing. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 03:44, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::No! They don't "normally" suck! I don't understand what everyone has against Sonic, but if you have a little grudge over a '''video game character''', then you have a serious problem. "You" wasn't directed to anyone. <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 03:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::::I can't believe Link is that low. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 03:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::::Trust me, if you play Scatz's Yoshi or Izaw's Link, you'll start a riot lol <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 03:56, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Hmm...Ike and Ganondorf went down, ZSS went up, and Mario is still out of the bottom five. Fox fell down hard. Meh...at least Kirby went up one![[User:L33tSilvie|Silvie]] ([[User talk:L33tSilvie|talk]]) 21:42, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
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| == Pluses and minuses ==
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| Here are the differences in places between the old tier list and the new one...
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| #Meta Knight 0
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| #Snake 0
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| #Falco +2
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| #King Dedede -1
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| #Mr. Game & Watch -1
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| #Marth +1
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| #Diddy Kong +4
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| #Wario 0
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| #R.O.B. -3
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| #Lucario -1
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| #Olimar +7
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| #Pikachu 0
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| #Kirby +1
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| #Donkey Kong -4
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| #Ice Climbers -2
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| #Zero Suit Samus +5
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| #Toon Link 0
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| #Pit -3
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| #Peach +5
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| #Wolf -4
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| #Luigi +2
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| #Zelda -2
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| #Bowser -1
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| #Fox -5
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| #Sheik +1
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| #Ike -1
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| #Mario +2
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| #Lucas -1
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| #Ness -1
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| #Samus +1
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| #Sonic +2
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| #Pokémon Trainer -2
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| #Yoshi -1
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| #Link +2
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| #Jigglypuff -1
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| #Ganondorf -1
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| #Captain Falcon 0 [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 04:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :Nice job =) <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 04:12, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| The fact is that just because some people have the ability to "not suck" with low tier characters does not mean that they are inherently not worse than the others. Here, the term suck is used relativistically. Take the 0-16 Detroit Lions. Most football followers would tell you that they "suck." And they do. They are (this year) the worst team in the NFL. Yet they could still kick the living daylights out of most college programs. So they are better than many other people, yet with respect to ''who they are compared to'' they are terrible. Same with these low tier characters. And I'm glad someone pointed out Taj and Shadowclaw before I did. I'd also like to point out that Taj plays Marth and/or Fox in all of his major games. Tiers exist, some characters suck, some people show cool stuff with them, and then the top tiers win. That's life. Or really, that's Smash Bros. Ultimately, it's just a game. Play Charizard, have a good laugh, make some money if you can, but this ain't gonna get you laid... [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 04:12, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :Well, you certainly put it in a nicer way than Shade did, no offense to him. I concur entirely. <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 04:20, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| I do think highly of meta Knight and Snake, and I do appreciate there presence as the top tiered characters. But, I don't really "care" about tier lists. Tier lists can be innaccurate because of the fact that they reflect tournament wins. You also need to consider the fact that the players are sometimes unknown and their skill is undeterminable. But, I do have some things for tier lists. no matter what the tier list says, I'll forever main Kirby. Anyways, I think...
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| *Kirby should be a higher, possibly within the top ten.
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| *R.O.B. should be dropped out of the top ten.
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| *Jigglypuff should be last!
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| *Ganondorf and Capt. Falcon should be a LOT higher.
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| <span style="color:blue"> '''[[User:SapphireKirby777|SapphireKirby777]] ([[User talk:SapphireKirby777|talk]]) 19:22, 6 January 2009 (UTC)''' </span>
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| Four Words: Worst. Tier list. Ever.--[[User:Mudkipz|User:Mudkipz]] ([[User talk:Mudkipz|talk]]) 15:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :Any particular reason why MK and Snake have their own seperate tiers? Those SB people could've saved a lot of time and effort by placing them at the top of the A rank, providing seven tiers instead of nine. And why is there such a big difference in number of tiers this time around? The first version had four, but this one has nine? That makes zero sense. And why letters? What's wrong with Top, High, Middle, etc.? I swear, they continue to confuse me more and more as revisions are made to this list. That also expands to ''where'' the characters are placed, but I think I'll keep that to myself. - <font face="times new roman">[[User:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:purple">'''GalaxiaD'''</span>]]</font><font face="times new roman"> <sup>[[User Talk:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:black">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup></font> 22:35, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Meta Knight is loleasy '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 22:39, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::Maybe it's because the characters need to have a set amount of points to be in a certain tier? NProbably, which is why Snake and MK have their own, because no one has a # as close. -[[User:ACDCGAMER|ACDCGAMER]] ([[User talk:ACDCGAMER|talk]]) 07:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Wow. Falco moved up (sweet...). By the way, should we add to the tier list article that SWF/SBR estimate that the next ''Brawl'' tier list will come out in June? '''[[User:MarioGalaxy|<span style="color:darkslateblue">Mario</span><span style="color:#000033">Galaxy</span>]]'''<sup>'''[[User talk:MarioGalaxy|<span style="color:lightslategray">May Guthix be with you...</span>]]'''</sup> 23:55, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| I didn't think C. Falcon was that bad just because he was last, but he got a 1 out 15. Too many retired Falcon players or something... '''[[User:GameGeek|<span style="color:darkslateblue">Game</span><span style="color:#000033">Geek</span>]]'''<sup>'''[[User talk:GameGeek|<span style="color:lightslategray">Heavyweights FTW/</span>]]'''</sup>
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| :Getting first out of 15 is that much of an accomplishment. If it was a larger scale tourney like first out of 30-50 then it would be impressive. [[User:JtM|JtM =^]]] ([[User talk:JtM|talk]]) 14:59, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Marth moved up!! (too bad I now suck at him...)
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| Where can I see the details of the scores that the characters recieved? I have a few opinions that I might voice once I see the list.
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| Is there any reason why there are so many tiers? I think that there should be around five, maybe six at most. By the way:
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| Pikachu for Top Tier!!
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| :[[User:Alexwang|Alexwang]] ([[User talk:Alexwang|talk]]) 23:12, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Wolf went down=FTL [[User:Masterman|<span style="color: fuchsia">Masterman</span>]] [[User talk:Masterman|<span style="color= blue">20</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Masterman|<span style="color: gold">09</span>]] 19:46, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
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| But is having a nine-tier list rational? Can they not integrate some of them? I mean, why have just one character in a tier? Well, if it was Captain Falcon, I would not cpmplain, but this is kind of different. In a bad knd of way. Why not put Snake and Meta Knight in the same top tier? I guess I just don't get it this time. [[User:DarkSmasherElite|DarkSmasherElite]] ([[User talk:DarkSmasherElite|talk]]) 05:16, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
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| :iirc, it's based on a point system relative to each other. The tiers are determined based on the point value. Also iirc, MetaKnight, defining the curve, is at 15. Snake is at 13.97. Nobody else is even close. That's what they are in separate tiers. [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 05:35, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
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| ==New tier designations==
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| OK, so since no one has asked so far, I guess I'll get this conversation going: why are there NINE different "tiers" this time around? The last list had a simple four (Top, High, Middle, and Low). Now, Meta Knight is practically listed as a god, Snake as a demigod, and C Falc, Ganon, Jiggles, and the Hero of Time as trash from the bottom of the dumpster in the G tier! Was it officially decided that we have to cause further tensions between those who faithfully follow tiers, those who don't believe in them, and those who simply want to improve their skill in the game, without being forced to choose a side? Can someone shed some light on this matter?--[[User:Meta-K|Meta-K]] ([[User talk:Meta-K|talk]]) 17:07, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :If I had to guess (nobody really said why on Smashboards), it has to do with more characters in the game (true, the last one was like Melee's, but maybe SBR didn't think it worked well for Brawl?) and trying to further categorize the differences in ability between tiers. For example, MK and Snake are the best characters in the game, but MK is a lot better than Snake. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font><font color="black">487</font><font color="yellow">z</font>]]/[[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="silver">Senior</font><font color="blue">Sombra!</font>]] 17:31, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::I asked this on the talk page for the tier list. But if you're asking what I think you're asking, the amount of professionals that main low tier character is about the same as the amount of them who use high tier characters, mostly Snake (high) and C. Falcon (low). I'd also like to reference [[User:Cheezperson/tier talk|Cheezperson's view of tiers]] at this point; read the G Tier section. <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 20:35, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| == Numbers? ==
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| Shouldn't we add the numbers for this tier list like melee's? After all Ness and Lucas, are considered even in this tier list but smashers who don't read the actual post might get confused. - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 01:13, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :I agree with this. Hopefully the tier list article doesn't turn out like the old weight article, where Melee's section was the one most payed attention to. <span style="border:2px outset red;background-color:black;-moz-border-radius:1px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:Blue;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 01:25, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Get over that. The reason we had all the information on Melee was that someone had done that research ''years'' ago, long before brawl came around. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 22:00, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::You like Melee better than Brawl, we know. :roll: <span style="border:2px outset #9900cc;background-color:white;-moz-border-radius:10px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#ff0099;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#ff0099">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 00:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
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| == Behold! ==
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| Mr. Magical person who posted the tier list on SBR ([http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=8855 this guy]) finally gave reasoning for the new system. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it, considering how unbalanced this game is. His reasoning:
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| *Gaps between tiers were relatively large
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| *The spread within tiers was relatively small.
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| *The particular number of tiers isn't special--that's just how the votes ended up. The majority of us believed that using a smaller number of tiers would be misleading, given the results.
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| So there you have it! The old formatting didn't exactly fit Brawl's roster due to a decrease in overall character balance and an increase in the number of playable characters...and Jigglypuff (lol). [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Contributions:Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 22:47, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :The link is to the SBR I think.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 22:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::No, the link leads to the SWF profile of the guy who posted the tier list. btw new sig! ...kinda...[[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 22:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::Oh, I don't have an account, so that's probably why I couldn't go there.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 22:53, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::Having fun trying to make GXD look stupid? >.> '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 23:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::It still doesn't make sense to me. What's the difference between a gap and a spread? They both measure distance between two objects (in this case, tiers), so he's basically saying that this "hole" is both too large and too small. Zero sense, my friends. - <font face="times new roman">[[User:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:purple">'''GalaxiaD'''</span>]]</font><font face="times new roman"> <sup>[[User Talk:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:black">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup></font> 23:11, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :No, it makes sense. The spread is the range of scores within a tier, which helped create the teirs, because the spread inside tiers is generally low. A gap is the large breaks between one character and the next- these are what created the divisions between one tier and the next. For example, the spread is the range of scores across tier B- relatively low, with a difference of .53. A gap is the difference between, say, Ike and Mario (1.35) or Yoshi and Link (1.38). The large breaks on [[:Image:Graphicaltiers.gif]] are gaps; the ranges with little change are spreads. --<span style="font-family:vivaldi; font-size:12pt">[[User:Shadowcrest|<span style="color:#4682b4">Shadow</span>]][[User talk:Shadowcrest|<span style="color:#4682b4;">crest</span>]]</span> 23:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Epic.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 23:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::Thanks for helping me explain that, Shadowcrest. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 00:50, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>shakes head* -_- '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 01:42, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
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| == I move to amend the tier list ==
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| To put the fish at SSS Tier. Contribut'd. [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 05:03, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :Congratulations, that joke just made it to the official tier thread on Smashboards thanks to me XD. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 06:08, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::I move to place the Parasite Queen in the same tier. - <font face="times new roman">[[User:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:purple">'''GalaxiaD'''</span>]]</font><font face="times new roman"> <sup>[[User Talk:GalaxiaD|<span style="color:black">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup></font> 23:00, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::NO! '''[[User:Cheezperson|<span style="color:gold">Cheez</span><span style="color:red">person</span>]]''' {[[User talk:Cheezperson|<span style="color:steelblue">talk</span>]]}[[Special:Contributions/Cheezperson|<span style="color:silver">stuff</span>]]''' 06:51, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::I move to place JAWSH at Z tier. '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 11:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::I move to place FD's ledge in the aforementioned SSS Tier. (it gimps easily and it shames you every time you get killed by it). [[User:IrvThaSol|<span style="color: gray;">IrvThaSol</span> <span style="color:red;">a.k.a</span> <span style="color:black;">Ungod</span>]] <small>([[User talk: IrvThaSol|talk to me]])</small> 00:17, 10 January 2009
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| Dang, Semicolon's done started a new fad...sorry, no idea from me. I don't do fads. Nerdiness FTW. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 03:05, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :Fads are created by nerds, genius. xD '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 03:09, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Yes, but by the time they're fads we've stopped doing them. Don't try to think like a nerd. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 05:31, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::I wasn't trying to think like a nerd. I can't, because I'm not one. :( Someone's in a sour mood today... '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 05:41, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Nope, all the effects on [[Spear Pillar|THIS DAMN STAGE]] are for the SSS-S Tier. '''[[User:Ike's Best Buddy|<span style="color:Red">Ike's</span> <span style="color:Brown">Best</span> <span style="color:Maroon">Buddy</span>]][[User Talk:Ike's Best Buddy|<small><sup><span style="color:silver">Here, my Friends</span></sup></small>]]'''
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| I say the ultimate chimera instantly goes SSSSS tier for being so darn annoying (THe Hobster)
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| == OH I SEE ==
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| I finally understand what the chart meant. Shadowcrest's explanation was too epic for me, but I figured out. Simplification of Shadowcrest's explanation for those of us who lack intellectual awesomeness.
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| [[Image:Tier gaps.jpg|center]]
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| The gaps in between groups indicate the next tier. For example, look at the last four (Link, Jiggs, Ganondorf, Falcon). They all seem pretty close in the length of the bar, but between Link and Yoshi, there is a noticeable difference in the length. On the tier list, that indicates the next tier. Then up to Mario, they're kind of the same, but when you get to Ike, there's a gap, and that's the next tier.
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| I was proud of myself, so I posted that. Feel free to make fun of me for not realizing that sooner. '''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 18:28, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :<nowiki>*</nowiki>makes fun of you for not realizing that sooner* '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 18:51, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::<nowiki>*</nowiki>makes fun of everyone else that didn't get it*<br>But in all seriousness, anybody ever given this any thought? Sakurai is the head honcho for Kirby games...MK and D3 are really high tier and Kirby was buffed significantly in this game. There are a lot of Kirby-themed items appearing in Brawl (dragoon, star rod, springs...yes, they're the same kind in KSS/KSSU), and a Kirby-based object (Halberd) is one of the key elements in the entire SSE. Coincidence? I don't think so. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 22:46, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::What? I '''got''' ''it'', Shade. And of course Sakurai would do that, those are his creations. :roll: '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 00:18, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::I didn't say you were one of them. My post did not say *makes fun of everyone else because no one got it*, my post said, *makes fun of everyone who didn't get it*. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 02:41, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Well, well. I didn't show up here for quite a while (I was too busy with Metin2 :P). And now I see a new list... with 9 tiers?? Wow, that caught me off guard! [[User:Xeze|Xeze]] ([[User talk:Xeze|talk]]) 01:46, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Kirby is so much lower than Meta Knight and King Dedede. :( I may think if I possibly come into tournaments in the future, then Kirby's ranking may increase due to the fact that I MAY win some tournaments. Hmm...nah. It'll never work. Poor Kirby!! :( (Behold my intellectual superiority! YESH!) <font face="calibri" size="3">[[User:SapphireKirby777|<span style="color:blue">SapphireKirby</span>]]</font>[[User Talk:SapphireKirby777|<span style="color:blue">'''777'''</span>]] 20:49, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :Scrubs! They're everywhere! '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 22:20, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Boy, I sure wish more people would play more as Sonic. Once you get used to his moves, I personally he is the best character to use in the game.
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| :Says you. Bowser's trash but he's one of my best characters. That doesn't make him any good. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 17:29, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Bowser is better in Brawl than in Melee. He has faster attacks, better falling speed (not really, since everyone in Brawl is floaty) and plenty of killing moves. He also has the best weight in the game. His only flaws are his ending lag for Smashes, and that he's easy to combo. Sonic is good too, since he doesn't suck at all. '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 19:56, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::Nobody in their right mind would doubt Bowser's improvement but he still sucks. You don't see him winning tournaments, right? Exactly. Same goes for Sonic. He sucks almost as bad. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 21:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::I personally don't think it's the character (with the exception of MK lol) that sucks, but the player. Or it could be that worse characters take more time to master, as opposed to high tiers like Snake and MK. Sonic is just bad against characters smaller than he is, plus his bad match-ups with characters that ''are'' his size. I think he's pretty good. Same thing goes for Bowser, 'cept he has a better chance since his attacks have better range and speed. '''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="background:#000000;color:#99ffff">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:#0099ff">Talk</span>]]</sup> 22:10, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::Right and wrong. Some characters are much harder to use, but that simply shows that the character sucks. Gimpy himself will tell you straight up that Bowser sucks...and he's not in Brawl, but that's irrelevant. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 00:09, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
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| The learning curve for a character is irrelevant, it'll turn off some players, but it doesn't mean anything in the long run as far as whether or not the character is good. A good example of this is Ice Climbers. [[User:Mario, the classic man of Nintendo|Mario, the classic man of Nintendo]]
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| :There's an exception to everything. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 18:24, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
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| My point is that match-ups and characteristics make the character, not how difficult they are to use. [[User:Mario, the classic man of Nintendo|Mario, the classic man of Nintendo]]
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| :In a way, we're both right. When I say harder to use, I mean harder to win with in tournaments, not just harder to pick up and play. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 13:24, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
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| == Antitier ==
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| Shouldn't it be mentioned that some people ( like myself) believe in tiers, and yet find the current tier list to be wrong? For instance, i find Sonic and Captain Falcon to be high tier characters, yet i find Meta Knight to be medium. Don't call me an idiot for thinking this, i'm being respectful to you guys. I may not be a "top level" smash bros. player, but I have been faithfully playing it sense the original when i was in second grade, and yet I find myself at odds with most "tierists" and those who adhere to "tournament rules", but i do acknowledge the existence of tiers. [[User:Popie|Popie]] ([[User talk:Popie|talk]]) 00:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
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| (PS: Wario should be the exact bottom!!"
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| I don't know how much you read, but this entire forum is about people who believe yet disagree with the present rankings. If you're talking about wanting the actual tier list page to reflect that some people disagree with current ranking, then (a) this is the wrong place and (b) the tier list page is about what the SBR says the tier list is, not who disagrees with them. I disagree with the tier list on some accounts, but I also disagree with your interpretation of what the differences should actually be. We're on equal footing, but neither of us is the SBR. [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 01:22, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
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| I'll also point out that if you are making your tier lists based on rules other than those of the SBR, it would not be unusual to see some differences as you are experiencing different circumstances than those who made the list. That being said, it then becomes irrelevant to the discussion of the SBR tier list if your findings are generated from a different environment. (Please don't take this the wrong way. I fully condone playing under whatever the hell settings you want, I'm just pointing out the lack of connection between casual play and SBR tier lists.) [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 01:43, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
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| Okay, thanks! that helps me understand the tier things a little better. happy gaming :) [[User:Popie|Popie]] ([[User talk:Popie|talk]]) 02:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
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| == tiers should not exist ==
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| tiers are the most retarded thing that i have ever heard of there is no such thing as some character being better than another it all has to do with how you play the game all a tier list is as and opinion there is no such thing as a real tier list opinion is not fact deal with it
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| :Get over yourself. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 19:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::the fact that you claim tiers dont exist because you think theyre stupid is like saying captialization and punctuation dont exist because you think its stupid because i can write like this all day but that doesnt stop me failing a paper written like this in the same way that you can play without regarding tiers but that doesnt defeat the fact that good meta knight players tend to kick the butts of good captain falcon players
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| ::(Some people call me a jerk...I call it having fun...)--[[User:Meta-K|Meta-Kirb]] ([[User talk:Meta-K|talk]]) 00:24, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
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| ::I consider myself a '''Neutral''' '''Tier'''. I believe that any character can beat another charater based on skill but.... if a level 9 Marth fights a level 9 jigglypuff. who's gonna win? Marth!! (Shut up Jigglypuff fanboys, I hate your stupid nearly reasonable logic!). But a level 9 jigglypuff is gonna beat a level 1 Marth (happy now?) this is my view.- [[User:Peakprovince|Peakprovince]] ([[User talk:Peakprovince|talk]]) 20:34, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
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| :::You've got the right idea, but in that same sense, the characters that win tournaments more frequently are the ones who place high...except in Europe. You people have Falcon winning tourneys...WHAT? [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 22:47, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
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| i totally agrreed with ya dude.....tiers really r pointless....it just matters how on's skill with that player is............ finally, someone whose not a tier believer....and o yea(to the dude posted before me), C. Falcon is a great character to play with....great moves,great style.....so C. Falcon doesnt suck.....mainly because u tried him and ur not good with him.....i know alot of people who like to play as Falcon.....just cause u suck at C. Falcon doesnt mean the whole wide world sucks as him.......FALCON PUUUUUNCH!!!! lol
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| :To above poster: Falcon Fail. There are plenty of people who don't like tiers, and I've come to realize that most of 'em suck. And you've gotta back up your claim when you call out someone better than you. '''[[User:Cheezperson|<span style="color:gold">Cheez</span><span style="color:red">person</span>]]''' {[[User talk:Cheezperson|<span style="color:steelblue">talk</span>]]}[[Special:Contributions/Cheezperson|<span style="color:silver">stuff</span>]]''' 03:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Huh? People who disagree with the tier list suck? That's a pretty stupid thing to say... I think the tier list is pretty accurate. [[User:Paper Bowser|Paper Bowser]] ([[User talk:Paper Bowser|talk]]) 05:20, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
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| dude......falcon doesnt suck....u maybe played him and didnt like the way he plays....as i said b4 .....just cause u suck as him doesnt mean everyone else does.....and tiers need to be forgotton ....the game is a party game...not some super ultra mega fighters game....people get with the program....bunch of fanboys....except clarinet hawk.....it all comes down to players skill not the characters skill
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| :Falcon does suck in most cases. '''You''' can forget tiers, but statistics show that tiers do, in fact, exist. As for the player's skill argument, try putting a level 9 Meta Knight against a level 9 Falcon. This is to demonstrate the fact that if two players are of equal skill, chances are the one with the higher tier character will win.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 19:53, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
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| ::I would like to point out that using computer-controlled characters in a tier list discussion is probably not the best idea, since the tier list is based on humans playing under tournament rules. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 20:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
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| :::It was purely for example of two players with the same skill, so s/he could actually witness the effects of character advantages.'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 20:44, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
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| Nah, Smore, he's got you there. Have you ever played against a CPU Snake? Doesn't do it rite. I think a few people misunderstood what I said. I meant that people who shun the tier list and call it crap (without good explanation or skills to back it up with, mind you) generally suck. People who might disagree with a few placements (including myself) make up the majority of the community. To anyone who thinks that Captain Falcon is good in tourneys, look up some tourney results. Fairly self explanatory. In fact, if you think you're so good, enter a tournament online. If you can't back yourself up, why bother arguing in the first place? '''[[User:Cheezperson|<span style="color:gold">Cheez</span><span style="color:red">person</span>]]''' {[[User talk:Cheezperson|<span style="color:steelblue">talk</span>]]}[[Special:Contributions/Cheezperson|<span style="color:silver">stuff</span>]]''' 05:44, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
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| :Real life tourneys are a little more mentionable though. And Captain Falcon's placement on the tier list has even been debated by SBR members, who state he should at least be higher than Yoshi, Ganondorf, or Link. I personally don't care though. I mean yeah, tiers exist, but knowing who is where on a tier list doesn't really help you much. It's pretty obvious to tell who's on top *coughcoughMetaKnightcoughcough* without the list, so if you were making a choice of your main based on that alone you wouldn't really need the tier list for that. But hey, since they're that intent on making this list such a big deal, they really should make a separate tier list for offline play and online play. After all, many characters (such as Wolf and Ike) play great online but are terrible offline, just like how some characters (to my knowledge, Marth is one of the best examples) play a lot better offline than online. The two lists would, indeed, be pretty different and it'd probably make a lot of people happier. MK and Snake would still rape though. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 07:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
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| its just that u tier-believers turned an awesome game into a boring game when tiers were implemented....tiers r useless im srry thats just my opinion.....go ahead.....blam me again ya nintendo fanboys....i dont care......its a party game.....get over yourselfes
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| :How is the game boring now with tiers? I do respect your opinion but, fanboys? Don't take this offensively. This is more of constructive criticism than a bash. You're the one who typed in Smash Wiki, clicked on the link, went to the forum, and said that we're fanboys. You said yourself,"an awesome game". Just because one likes a game doesn't mean that he/she is a fanboy/girl. What are we doing that we need to get over ourselves? SSBB is a fighting game by the way. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 16:30, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Well...you can make an argument that SSB is at least partly in the party genre in that, through random events (items) and player-set handicaps, everyone can have fun playing. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 18:19, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
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| :::That's right, you can configure your own rules, throwing tiers out the window almost altogether. To the anonymous IP who can't spell, type, etc., you can choose to not believe the tier list exist. Heck, I didn't know there was a melee tier list until a year before brawl came out! Knowledge of the tier list shouldn't affect your choice of main(s). SBR knows more about the game and its mechanics than anybody here, and really just about anywhere for that matter, and what they put out is mostly OK with me. If you just can't handle the fact that your favorite racing bounty hunter doesn't do well in tournaments, go ahead and think that. Once again, if you want to try and re-shape the community's view of Captain Falcon (or any character), go for it! Enter a tournament, make a video, it doesn't matter! It's as simple as that. '''[[User:Cheezperson|<span style="color:gold">Cheez</span><span style="color:red">person</span>]]''' {[[User talk:Cheezperson|<span style="color:steelblue">talk</span>]]}[[Special:Contributions/Cheezperson|<span style="color:silver">stuff</span>]]''' 00:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::It's obvious that this guy doesn't play by SBR tourney rules so for people such as Mr. Anonymous IP With Bad Spelling, tiers are pretty irrelevant. Saying that they don't exist at all isn't correct, though. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 04:13, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
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| ==The SSBB Tier List (In My Opinion)==
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| *'''Top Tier'''
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| *1-Ike
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| *2-Kirby
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| *3-Marth
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| *4-Wario
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| *5-Sonic
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| *6-Captain Falcon
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| *7-Toon Link
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| *'''High Tier'''
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| *8-Snake
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| *9-Meta Knight
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| *10-Mr. Game & Watch
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| *11-King Dedede
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| *12-Bowser
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| *13-Pit
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| *14-Ice Climbers
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| *'''Middle Tier'''
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| *15-Mario
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| *16-Ganondorf
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| *17-Luigi
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| *18-Falco
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| *19-Fox
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| *20-Donkey Kong
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| *21-Olimar
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| *'''Low Tier'''
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| *22-Diddy Kong
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| *23-Samus
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| *24-Zero Suit Samus
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| *25-Pikachu
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| *26-Pokemon Trainer
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| *27-Lucario
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| *28-Sheik
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| *'''Bottom Tier'''
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| *29-Yoshi
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| *30-Link
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| *31-Zelda
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| *32-Wolf
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| *33-Peach
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| *34-Ness
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| *35-Lucas
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| *36-R.O.B.
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| *37-Jigglypuff
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| Eventhough I don't care about tiers at all, I think this should be the tier list and I don't care what you fanboys think. -KoopaKidJr.
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| :Even though I don't care about tiers at all either, I think the SBR knows what they're talking about when they make tiers and I don't care what nobodies like you think. :P [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 21:56, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
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| :Tiers R 4 Queers -KoopaKidJr.
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| ::If that's true, then why did you make a tier list? [[User:Y462|Y462]] <small>([[User talk:Y462|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Y462|C]] • [[Special:Editcount/Y462|E]] )</small> 23:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Sigh...kid, please read [[User:Semicolon/Treatise on the Existence of Tiers|this]]. [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 23:21, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
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| I don't care about tiers, I just hated the new SSBB tier list, so I made my own one. I know this doesn't make sense, but this is MY OPINION of what it should have been. -KoopaKidJr.
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| :So you don't care about them enough to make one of your own? [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="firebrick"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lightcoral">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lightcoral">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
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| ::He's just like the old me; criticizing the tier list because the characters that he likes aren't in the correct places. I believe his version of the tier list was actually made out of how well he plays with them, or who he likes the most to the least. Nonetheless, noone gives a flying **** what he thinks. :p <span style="border:2px outset #9900cc;background-color:white;-moz-border-radius:10px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#ff0099;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#ff0099">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 23:56, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
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| :::Play nice in the forums. (-_-) [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="firebrick"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lightcoral">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lightcoral">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 00:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::[[Image:Srsbsns.gif|50px]] <span style="border:2px outset #9900cc;background-color:white;-moz-border-radius:10px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#ff0099;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#ff0099">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 00:05, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::zzz, less personal attacks pls --<span style="font-family:vivaldi; font-size:12pt">[[User:Shadowcrest|<span style="color:#4682b4">Shadow</span>]][[User talk:Shadowcrest|<span style="color:#4682b4;">crest</span>]]</span> 00:06, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
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| :::::I'm I the only guy that thinks it sucks that all the crappy characters get good Final Smashes and all the good characters get crappy Final Smashes (with a few exceptions) -KoopaKidJr.
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| ::::::This isn't about tiers in matches with items, this tier list is for [[Tournament legal (SSBB)|this type of match]], which uses no Final Smash of any sort. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 03:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
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| == Here's an idea for a new tier list ==
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| So you take all the characters and you play them. And if one of them sucks in the mirror match-up (i.e. Charizard) that's the bottom. Then you take all the ones who suck when your blind-folded, and their the lower. Then you get a hot pocket and if you can beat classic and it still tastes not like Martha Stuarts ass, thats the middle tier. FOr the upper, you get a few bottles and you try to see if you can ballance them on your head while playing and if you win, they in da upper. And for the BAD ASS Tier? you gots to be able to win with them even while your girl is giving you a good time. Seriously, this is how we do tiers. [[User:Solid Dragenah|Solid Dragenah]] ([[User talk:Solid Dragenah|talk]]) 06:01, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
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| Never again. If I see you post an inanity like this again, I'm blocking you, so consider this a warning. [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 06:02, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
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| Let's consider this as an argument from someone who cannot refute tiers existence smartly : no response. [[User:Metalink187|Metalink187]] ([[User talk:Metalink187|talk]]) 11:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
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| ==Back to the Discussion==
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| So, what happened to Fox? I mean, you don't drop 24 spots for nothing. Did his Metagame rely so heavily on the Melee wavedash that it was completely obliterated in Brawl? When I play him (I never played Fox at a really high level, so I might be mistaken), it didn't seem like he was a whole lot different. What's more likely, I think, is perhaps some of the new chracters/improved veterans might have had changes that favour them in the match-up, but does anyone know for sure? (Snake FTF btw :P)--[[User:Meta-K|Meta-Kirb]] ([[User talk:Meta-K|talk]]) 22:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
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| :Agreed on both parts. Falco's changes saved him basically :/ Too bad I'm no good at Brawl Falco. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 23:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Melee Falco > Brawl Falco; it ain't your fault. :\ <span style="border:2px outset #33ff66;background-color:green;-moz-border-radius:3px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#99ff99;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#99ff99">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 00:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
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| :::Its probably because of the loss of wavedashing that Fox and Falco dropped. <font face="calibri" size="3">[[User:SapphireKirby777|<span style="color:blue">SapphireKirby</span>]]</font>[[User Talk:SapphireKirby777|<span style="color:silver">'''777 ~Behold! -.-'''</span>]] 16:58, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
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| ::::I don't really think that wavedashing is THAT important in Melee (Except with Luigi). I think the nerf Fox underwent is due to the transformation of the gameplay (Gravity for the most important factor) and the new characters (MK lolz). [[User:Metalink187|Metalink187]] ([[User talk:Metalink187|talk]]) 17:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
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| == Times Played ==
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| Could it be possible that MK and Snake are in the top tier because they are used more in tournaments and Ganondorf and CF are in the bottom because nobody really wants to play as either one of them in tournaments? Maybe a lot of people want to play as MK but hardly anybody wants to play as Jigglypuff so of course MK would have more tournament victories. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 01:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
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| :Nope. In fact, the reason that Snake/MK are played more is because they're good enough to win tournies, hence why they're legit for being top tier. Personal preference doesn't really affect tiers. There are still quite a handful of loyal CF and Fox players but in that same sense the characters just aren't good enough to win multiple tournies across the nation. The player may be great with them (i.e., [[Smasher:Gimpyfish|Gimpy]]), but that doesn't mean people all over can win with that same character. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 03:17, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
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| ==Ike==
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| In my opinion and in many other peoples opinions Ike should be far higher up. His throws are pathetic, and his speed isn't that great, but apart from that, there a few factors which degrade him. His attacks, the smashes in particular, have excellent range, his arials are efficiant, his eruption can be a one hit KO (though this is unlikely) and he has 2 recoveries which can be very effective: Quick Draw for horizontal reconvery, and aether for vertical. All of his attacks has significant damage, and i cannot see why he is in such a low spot. (The Hobster)
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| :Ike? Effective recovery? (Vulcan eyebrow raise) His recovery is more limited than Luigi's (Luigi can use Green Missile more than once, it may misfire, and he has the Cyclone), and his opponent can easily jump or throw something out there to stop Quick Draw in its tracks. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 18:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
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| A couple of reasons Ike's lower than you'd expect:
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| #Easily gimped recovery
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| #Extremely slow attacks with lots of lag afterwards
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| #Just slow in general
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| #Can SD way too easily (accidentally pull off an nair after coming off the ledge? You're screwed and that happens more than you think)
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| #Counter isn't even all that reliable because it takes so long to start up, your opponent is probably gonna see it coming and not attack or just grab you instead
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| Y'know...stuff like that. Plus other characters are just plain-out better than Ike in tourney play. If they had a doubles tier list he'd be really high though. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 23:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
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| :I wouldn't count number 4 as viable considering that at high levels of play, a SD is very, very, rare.(Johns don't count.). Ike players usually use counter like Roy did in melee, its an amazing edgeguarding move on predictable recoveries. - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 00:01, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
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| ::Don't SD much? You just don't watch enough vids lol. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 16:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
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| :::That's all well and good, but you have to remember that Ike has quite a few things working for him.
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| #His forward smash is the second most powerful in the game (the first being King Dedede).
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| #His b-air attack is surprisingly fast.
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| #His throws can actually be chained with other attacks (such as d-throw and Aether)
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| #If standing near an edge, Ike can throw an opponent off the edge and use some powerful edge guarding techs (Counter is a good example, but a quick forward smash will KO most opponents even at low damage.
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| #Ike's Aether has a meteor spike which, when used properly, can KO some characters at 0% (I've even done this 'Shining Aether' on characters like Meta Knight, Falco and most characters with poor recovery) by using the Aether over the edge, hitting the opponent with the Aether attack, then edge-grabbing while both Ike and the opponent are falling from the attack.
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| #His heavy weight makes him difficult to KO (as long as DI is used).
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| #His up air attack has such a long duration that a character with a fast aerial dodge will still get hit.
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| #He has super armor effect while using Aether (while the sword is out of his hands) and Eruption (just after the attack is released), the latter of the which makes a handy aerial finisher against an opponent trying to hit you with an up air attack.
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| There are probrably other reasons too, but that's all that comes to mind right now. [[User:Lightning Fox|Lightning Fox]] ([[User talk:Lightning Fox|talk]]) 03:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
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| :imo, I don´t think Ike is bad as much as it is the fact that there are simply superior characters (for tourney rules anyways). [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 12:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
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| ::That's the thing with tournaments. The fact that there is a defined ruleset and limited options causes some characters to be better than others simply because of their style. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 13:03, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
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| :::All tourney rules say is (basically) no items, no retarded stages, and best of three. There's nothing saying that you can't play a character in a certain way. And if you rely on items to win all the time, well, then you might have more fun playing slots in Vegas. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 15:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
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| == Before anyone else starts yapping on about AiB making you 100% scrub free ==
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| ...the tier list is what it is. Point blank. No one is getting anywhere complaining about it. Cheezperson keeps telling these people to make AiB accounts and go to tournaments, but even though that helps, it '''has nothing to do with the tier list'''. Yes, Captain Falcon DOES suck, so does Lucas, Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf, but does that stop you from using them? '''No.''' You're free to use whomever you wish to use, you just need to be aware of the match-up. I've seen Captain Falcons beat Marths and Snakes, I've seen Marios whoop Ikes and Pikachus, but that does mean they're better. Jesus Christ people... <span style="border:2px outset #ff66ff;background-color: #66ff99;-moz-border-radius:3px">'''[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#9900ff;">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#9900ff">Ninjakoopa</span>]]'''</span> 22:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
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| :Spoiler alert: People are never going to all 100% agree on what you said. It just doesn't happen. ESPECIALLY when people don't know what they're talking about (y'know, those people who say MK shouldn't be top-tier cuz his Final Smash sucks?). It's unavoidable. [[User:Shade487z|<font color="red">Shade</font>]][[User talk:Shade487z|<font color="black">487</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Shade487z|<font color="yellow">z</font>]] 22:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
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| ::You can't stop idiots, from being idiots. - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 02:28, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
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| Here's something to think about. AIB does have to do with tier lists. Notice I said lists. As in the lists that the SBR puts out. I'm sure there is a static tier list for perfect play at the optimal meta-game, but we will never get there. At the present, we just have to do our best out figure out where each character should be based on how real people play them. One of the ways we do that is through looking at tournament placings, and considering AIB does a very good job of tracking tourney results and who played what characters, that gives a deep vault of empirical information for consideration on tier placements. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 15:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
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