User talk:MetaKing

Hi there!

Welcome!

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DarkFox01I see them up ahead. Let’s rock and roll! 15:31, 26 July 2015 (EDT)

Meta Knight

You seem to like Meta Knight. How would you feel about writing the "Attributes" section on the Meta Knight page (the section above the "Changes from Brawl to PM" section)? I don't play as Meta Knight, so I don't know him well enough to be able to write about him, but I bet you could. The section doesn't have to be terribly long. Somewhere between the one here and the one here. I ask this because a lot of character pages still need those sections to be started or expanded. John PK SMAAAASH!! 09:27, 24 November 2015 (EST)

Personally I would really like to but the fact is that I have more knowledge of him during the 3.02 days, and am aware that that info is outdated. So, while I would like to write the attributes section for Meta Knight (PM) I think Im going to hold off for now until I discuss this with my more experienced tourney partner (especially his tier placement: Some people say he's low tier, some say he's mid-high tier. Personally, I think he has Top tier potential, and no I'm not being a "T!3R F@G"... Plus bad grammar and I'm busy with school :P). I'm still willing to do it, just not right now.

I will however give more technical change data change comparisons from Brawl (and maybe Smash 4) to Project M, as that is easier for me due to SmashBoards and me being able to properly use PSA.

MetaKing My Destiny is Victory! 11:19, 24 November 2015 (EST)

Sure, do it any time you want to. Even if you wrote a section that was more accurate to the 3.02 Meta Knight, it could still be adjusted somewhat to fit the 3.6 one. Thanks for contributing! (Btw, I slightly edited your post to fit the standard conventions of the talk pages, I hope you don't mind.) John PK SMAAAASH!! 14:16, 25 November 2015 (EST)

I Did It!!! See......................... Oh God Im so tired from that.....( ;-_-)......Now I have to do This..........( ;-_-)( ;-_-)( ;-_-)

MetaKing My Destiny is Victory! 11:44, 4 January 2016 (PST)

Regarding technical info about the game

I recommend you to indeed use some math and calculate how much ending lag does the move have in comparison to its Brawl iteration, instead of always mentioning "(interruptibility frame: 20 > XX)" as it takes a lot of space in the page. Just a tip to edit better, like in Dedede's page. -- The 70's called. They said BeepYou was here :v 03:00, 17 January 2016 (EST)

Happy Birthday!

I heard it's your birthday, so Happy Birthday! -- Ethan (Discussion) 00:31, 19 January 2016 (EST)

Hello

Why did you arbitrarily choose "knockback growth" as the common term over "knockback scaling"? Scaling is more descriptive of what the mechanic actually is, and it's what we use in all the related moveset subpage templates. Toomai Glittershine The Yoshi 22:43, 15 February 2016 (EST)

A few reasons:

1. I see growth used more commonly now, so I thought that growth is better fitting to describe "the growth of a move".
2. The term KBG being commonly used within data mining through both Brawl and Smash 4.
3. The reasons of consistency; it can be confusing for new players to know that Scaling and Growth are the same thing, so I decided to keep one or the other (growth being more commonly used, so I went with that).

So with that in mind, I thought growth would be more fitting to use, and because I personally like Growth more than scaling (though that personal preference didn't at all determine why I changed it). Also, question: "If scaling Is the proper term, then why is growth used more?" I'm a bit curious on that.

MetaKing My Destiny is Victory! 8:04, 15 February 2016 (PST)

Yeah people not using the proper term has been a problem since forever, really. I think the only reason that "growth" might be seeing more popularity recently is because the one or two guys that control most of the data flow picked it, so everyone assumes it's the proper term (probably why you see "KBG" everywhere). (Though to be fair neither term is official, which is normally how we decide what "proper" is.)

Now if we remove popularity from the equation (which we shouldn't completely, but just to see), then I think "scaling" is more descriptive in terms of "what exactly does this do". I'm probably biased myself, but I see "growth" as a biased term because it sounds large, as if it starts low and can only go up. "Scaling" on the other hand feels more like it starts in the middle and can be increased or decreased, which is how the underlying equation operates.

In the end I don't feel all that strongly that this is worth doing a wiki-wide standardization on; both terms are used often enough, we don't need to have a page titled as one or the other, and as long as things are consistent in the same section/page I don't think there's too much opportunity for confusion. It'd be kind of like our stance on American/non-American spelling: you can use either, but don't intermix them too close together.

Side note: Please read SW:SIG; you can't use templates or mainspace images in your signature. Toomai Glittershine The Keymaster 00:16, 16 February 2016 (EST)

In what move does knockback shrink with damage, though? Serpent King 00:31, 16 February 2016 (EST)

...I'm not sure how to respond to that. I know of no moves with negative scaling, though there's a chance that some of the games might do that if given the right input. But there's a ton of moves with normal scaling (i.e. 100, or 1.0 depending how you read it), increased scaling (x > 100), and decreased scaling (0 <= x < 100). Toomai Glittershine The Indescribable 10:19, 16 February 2016 (EST)

Hey

Where did you see King Dedede has lower air speed? -- BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk) 19:16, 2 March 2016 (EST)

It wasn't me. An anonymous user (184.89.170.235) just posted it in Update History and then WolfBloodSpam (talk•contribs•logs) said he found a link that shows "evidence" (Falco also appears to be in a similar situation, except his was increased). I too am ambiguous to if it is actually true, as the patch notes forum on SmashBoards and Kurogane Hammer didn't have this change listed, and it probably would have been found by now if it was. But I put it in Attributes anyway, and if this claim is false, I (or anyone really) will remove it. (Also, it is an outrage because Dedede already has the lowest air speed in the game, so why decrease it even more?)

MetaKing My Destiny is Victory! 4:32, 2 March 2016 (PST)

Hmmm... I'll check it out. -- BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk) 19:42, 2 March 2016 (EST)

MK up air change

I've seen people say "it still works, just at later percents," and others say, "it's completely unviable."

Who's right, or is it a middle-ground? I've tried on CPU's, and it works at later percents, but CPU's really don't have very good DI.

Dhiaalhanai (talk) 07:37, 16 March 2016 (EDT)Dhia Al Hanai

It is defiantly possible, I've done it multiple times on a Level 8 "Sakurai" Mii (I think you can guess why). One difference is that it works at a later percent; before it would work on Pikachu at 37%, but now it doesn't work on Pikachu until 50%, this is because of the new angle combined with the decreased damage output and increased SDI multiplier makes it so that the move actually does technically less knockback. Another issue is that the more horizontal angle makes it easier to DI, though I'm not to sure on how significant this is because all of my friends have the brain a size of a walnut when it comes to Smash, and it being hard to tell if CPUs are properly DIing.

MetaKing #20MK 15:31, 16 March 2016 (EDT)

The Rufio

It is still alive :] -- BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk) 11:10, 17 March 2016 (EDT)

I know, I never said it was gone (funerals over today anyway!) :] MetaKing #20MK 16:12, 17 March 2016 (EDT)

IRC? Can I see you there? -- BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk) 20:02, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

What exactly is that and why?MetaKing #20MK 20:05, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

Read this. It can be used to chat with whoever you want without clogging the recent edits :] -- BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk) 20:06, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

Meta Knight

Did I do a good edit? :] -- BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk) 22:56, 24 April 2016 (EDT)

Yeah... I don't see any problem to it! --20MK_MetaKing #20MK

Ur userbox

I'm using it. Come 'ere buddy! -- BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk) 11:59, 27 April 2016 (EDT)

Yay! :D --20MK_MetaKing #20MK 18:26, 27 April 2016 (EDT)

PSA?

I've seen you mention it multiple times. What is it? And where can I find it? That sounds pretty helpful. WolfBloodSpam (talk) 21:03, 27 April 2016 (EDT)

So instead of searching for it on Wiki, you go to ask someone? Alright then. MegaTron1 21:19, 27 April 2016 (EDT)

Well, how am I supposed to know that was it was actually called? I never heard of it before and I thought "PSA" could mean at totally different thing. I thought about searching for it on the wiki or on Google, but for all I knew it could've taken me to something completely un-related. WolfBloodSpam (talk) 21:41, 27 April 2016 (EDT)

I'll explain more specific details about it anyway. "Project Smash Attacks" is an old (and fairly outdated) program that has the ability to view and edit character files for Brawl. It shows character attributes (weight, dash speed, fall speed, etc.) damage values, base knockback, knockback growth, SDI multiplier, hitlag multiplier, trip rate, hitbox sizes, etc.

• How to use it:
  • Start the program and open the character's Fit[Character Name].pac file. That simple!
• However, it does have limitations:
  • It is unable to open King Dedede's Fit.pac file (which is why Dedede's Smash 4 "Changes from Brawl" section has no knockback value changes reported; otherwise I would've found all of them by now).
  • Viewing special moves can be a challenge for characters whose specials contain a special property to them (such as reflectors or counters).
  • Startup and ending lag values are very troublesome to view and understand properly due to them being shown like this example when viewing Meta Knight's glide attack: (Asynchronous Timer: frames=4 instead of Startup: frame 5).
  • Damage, base knockback, knockback growth, shield damage, and set knockback values are coded in Hexadecimal (eg. 10=A, 100=64, 60=3c, etc.) making it hard for beginners to understand if they do not have a hexadecimal calculator (fortunately, I use a useful one that works really well).
  • Where it says Shield damage it actually shows the value for set knockback, while shield damage values are partially invisible.

Considering how old PSA is, Open Smash Attacks is a better option, as it is basically an improved version of PSA. However, it is not compatible with my computer (it's a real shame, because I heard it can open Dedede's files), so it would be great if other users use it to find more changes between all of the Smash games. (Current version of Open Smash Attacks (V3)). Got anymore questions on it? You can ask me and I'll try to answer them. --20MK_MetaKing #20MK 21:42, 27 April 2016 (EDT)

OK. Thank you WolfBloodSpam (talk) 21:45, 27 April 2016 (EDT)

Oh, and if you were wondering, the Melee equivalent to PSA is Crazy Hand (Program) (Which is also incompatible with my computer, meaning it is up to other users to find out changes from Smash 64 to Melee, changes from Melee to Brawl, and changes from Melee to Project M.) --20MK_MetaKing #20MK 21:58, 27 April 2016 (EDT)

Userbox

I added it Poultry(talk) the God-Slayer 06:53, 18 May 2016 (EDT)

Also to say, i won some tournaments in PEI, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland & Labrador, Quebec and even some high placings in ontario! Poultry(talk) the God-Slayer 19:21, 18 May 2016 (EDT)

Thats great! I don't travel often due to school, costs, and my age, but I do if I have a chance. I am mostly active in the Summer due to all of those reasons I mention no longer being a problem, which is why I have few results (most of them in the summer) despite me being considered the best Meta Knight in Vancouver (so I guess you can say that I'm more of a hidden boss of Vancouver). 20MK_MetaKing #20MK 20:02, 18 May 2016 (EDT)

So i got the east and you got the west! Poultry(talk) the God-Slayer 14:05, 19 May 2016 (EDT)

Jbandrew's Nationality

About Jbandrew, I would like to bring an SF5 example in this. Marn is a US player, but now lives in Vietnam. Capcom lists Marn as Vietnamese for Capcom Pro Tour. Smash doesn't have an official league, but SF5 does. Capcom considers Marn (originally from US, now in Nam) a Vietnamese player due to location. Given the Marn example is more professional, I would like to have Jbandrew listed as German. ZeRo is not in a league, but Marn is. Also more examples.

• Do we list Eikelmann as Russia when he now lives in US
• Do we list n0ne as Nicaragua when he now lives in Canada
• Do we list Orion as Netherlands when he now lives in US
• Do we list PR Balrog as Puerto Rico when he now lives in US (SF example)
• Do we list Hamad as Kuwait when he now lives in US (SF example)

EDIT: Marn example is here: Marn's Capcom Pro Tour bio

If you said no to all of those, then we should list Jbandrew as German. Please do not relist him as American unless he moves back. Thanks friend. Falconian Leader (Enter the Leader's Office) 10:43, 24 May 2016 (EST)

Hey

Want to play some smash? Poultry(talk) the God-Slayer 19:07, 27 May 2016 (EDT)

Well, not right now cause work Poultry(talk) the God-Slayer 19:13, 27 May 2016 (EDT)

I would like to, but for Smash 4, I am severely held back by one problem: INPUT LAG. And no, I don't mean the simple For Glory 5-7 frame delay, I mean THIS KIND OF LAG that makes playing online for me near unplayable. True story: I seriously use the tag INPUT LAG to show players my problem, and that I am simply testing it, but most players I've encountered are complete @$$h0les and don't care for my problem. (Fun fact: The only match I've played without input lag was ironically with a player FROM JAPAN). I don't have an ethernet cable and don't plan on getting one, because frankly, going all the way of buying something that is rare in stores and goes for a high amounts online just for something that I may or may not use isn't truly worth it in the end (plus, my TV is nowhere near an ethernet wall-jack). I am aware of the Wi-Fi priority list, but only my dad has control over that, and he's not likely going put my Wii U higher on the list just for playing games (since 2/3 of the time he is using his computer for work, and because of how many devices my household has connected: computers, laptops, cell phones, dad's devices, etc). So I need to see if my dad can put my Wii U higher up the list first as well as more testing before I can play online matches that are at least decent with lag.

However, I am willing to test right now or any time (except if I'm busy with family stuff, school days (Mon-Fri) and tomorrow (Saturday, May 28th, 2016) because I have a Melee tournament at this) to see if my Wi-Fi is any better (I heard Wi-Fi connection is mostly determined by whoever is host, but I don't remember, but if thats the case, maybe you can try hosting to see if that works).

• To make sure, first, I test by jumping and dash-dancing. Then...
  • If I side taunt, there no significant input lag, and I am ready to get my @$$ wooped and die at 5% because MK weighs like 2lbs (I lose in the dumbest ways possible, such as this happening to me as well).
  • If I up taunt, then there is lag but is still fairly playable, like the standard clean For Glory (≈4-5 frames at best).
  • If I down taunt and kill myself, then it is near unplayable lag and further things need to be done to my Wii U's Wi-Fi.

But anyway, NNID is lockforward5 (my dad came up with it not me) and Anther's Ladder, if there are any problems of my two accounts please tell me immediately.

As for Smash 64, Melee (I normally use 20XX hack pack 4.05), Brawl, or Project M, I would have to get and setup Netplay ISOs first. Also, I am a Mac user (sadly), so my emulators are OpenEmu for Smash 64, and Dolphin 4.0 (the latest ver. for Mac) for the latter three, and I have a USB N64 controller and a Mayflash GameCube adapter (I use the official one for Wii U) *Experience may vary for both lag and skill level.

So yeah, that was A LOT of info, but I tried to cover as much as I can. 20MK_MetaKing #20MK 22:39, 27 May 2016 (EDT)

UPDATE*: I am now able to play Melee, Brawl, and Project M netplay via Anther's Ladder. For Melee however, a 20XX Hack Pack 4.05 ISO is preferred (I can provide a download link if you want). -- --20MK_MetaKing #20MK 02:58, 28 May 2016 (EDT)

Just something random

• (reads his user page because reasons)
• (arrives to the Smash 4 opinion section)
• (reads the "underrated characters" section and finds his main)

I love you :'] -- BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk) 14:00, 28 May 2016 (EDT)

Thoughts on Borb

I noticed that on your user page, you listed Meta Knight as one of the most underrated characters in Smash 4.

What are your thoughts on him?

Also, are you on discord, for sake of convenience? ~dhiaalhanai, 1:02 AM

In my opinion, the 1.1.5. patch didn't kill him in the metagame (no pun intended). For me, it wasn't the up air nerf that killed him, it was his match-ups against (as I refer to them as) THE EZ WIN characters! (Vancouver is INFAMOUS for having TONS of Mario and Cloud players, and everyone there knows it... Literally!) I think people really are over reacting about the up air change, and while yes, it did hurt MK in the process, people seem to forget that he has more than a death elevator as a means to be viable. The rest of his moveset IMO is relatively underused, which can potentially help him against certain characters, such ; I am known to often use dash-dances, SHFFs, forward tilts, down smashes, down airs, side Bs, and down Bs rather unusually, but surprisingly effectively (Dimensional Cape in particular has made me infamous for my accuracy and precision with the move; some know know me as The Dimensional King because of it).

So, anyway, where do I think MK is in the tier list? Well, simply put, he can range from 10th-20th on it, no where below that.

And about discord: well, not yet. I am not exactly keen on the idea of it (yet), combined with me being busy. But if I get more and more people requesting me to try it, I might. To compensate, I could give my other accounts; SmashBoards, Anther's Latter, and NNID. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!

Also as an added bonus: My Dedede...

20MK_MetaKing #20MK 22:48, 28 July 2016 (EDT)

A question

Where did you find the Brawl attributes/frame data for each character? I remember you found lots of Brawl King Dedede's aspects that way, which you used to write changes in his SSB4 page. -- Feliz Noviembre de parte de BeepYou :) (talk) 16:42, 10 November 2016 (EST)

Project Smash Attacks v1.3 is the best way to view character attributes without having to understand hexadecimal, and is the ONLY one compatible with Dedede's Fit.pac file. I have provided a download link here from my Dropbox of that version, and a few Brawl character files (to find Brawl character files and Brawl files in general, see here.) With those in hand, I compare them to Kurogane Hammer (updated as of 1.1.6.) and Dantarion's (Only between 1.0.0.-1.1.1. ; In hexadecimal) Smash 4 file dumps. I hope this covers everything you want to know. Also, bonus video of My Meta Knight ;) 20MK_MetaKing #20MK 19:16, 10 November 2016 (EST)

Ah wonderful. This serves me well, thanks. Also the shield break followed by a Rufio lol -- Feliz Noviembre de parte de BeepYou :) (talk) 19:24, 10 November 2016 (EST)

so

Don't really know you but, happy birthday, i suppose. Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ 15:01, 18 January 2017 (EST)

Thanks! 20MK_MetaKing #20MK 18:41, 18 January 2017 (EST)

Meta Knight is OP

Why in the literal world would Meta Knight being overpowered as hell be good for Brawl's tournament scene in any way? Skuchi037 (talk) 22:43, 28 November 2018 (EST)

April Fools Clean Up

I was going to revert my April Fools edits, but noticed that you beat me to it. Thank you! OldLink5 (talk) 22:24, April 1, 2019 (EDT)

Lol no probs. :) #20MK MetaKing 22:49, April 1, 2019 (EDT)