SmashWiki:New Logo Proposal

The following discussion is an archived debate of the nomination of a new site logo. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

Result: Failed due to mass inconsensus. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 17:49, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, I wasn't sure which namespace to put this in, but this seemed like the right one. Anyway...

Current Logo	Proposed Logo (Aharoni)	Proposed Logo (American Garamond)	Proposed Logo (retro text)

You may have already seen this on one of my subpages - I decided to make it an official proposal, so I moved it out of the user namespace.

This wiki's current logo is just over two years old, and while interesting-looking, is somewhat bland. (This may be just because we've been staring at it for two years, though.) The new logo is colourful (but not overly so), Wikipedia-styled, and fresh. So, I ask: who would like to see something with a bit more pop? Change isn't always good, but I believe in this case it is. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 02:37, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Support

1. Support - I like it. It is styles after the Wikipedia logo which, in my mind, is THE wiki logo. ☆The Solar Dragon ^(Talk)☆ 06:28, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
2. See mine and Toomai's comments elsewhere on this page for reasons why. PenguinofDeath 15:53, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

   Update: I way prefer the Aharoni one to the American Garamond one. As Toomai said, Aharoni is similar to the Wii font, so it's more suitable. Also, I disagree with everyone who says that Master Hand needs to be in the logo. If you include Master Hand, it'll either look horrible, or it'll look identical to the current logo. PenguinofDeath 19:59, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

3. Support The original logo is totally void of color aside from blue and shades of gray. I like the idea of the colorful wikipedia style logo.|-|16#\/\/4¥ []D(_)/\/\|D% ^{|_0|_7_ |\||_||3} 22:59, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
4. Support Pretty cool wikipedia parody. Change the font though. Kperfekt ^{BURN!!! Revert That!} 23:45, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
5. Support My only complaint is the font; it should be changed. Otherwise, I like it. - GalaxiaD ^Talk 00:05, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
6. SupportIt is colorful and reflects wikipedia. I think its great! ARC-1807 (talk) 16:03, March 24, 2010 (UTC)Saber1807
7. Support I dig these type of takes on the Wikipedia logo. ChozoBoy _[ADMIN] (Talk/Contribs) 12:21, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

   Can people who never use this site really vote? BNK ^[E|T|C] 12:23, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

   You have a point... |-|16#\/\/4¥ []D(_)/\/\|D% ^{|_0|_7_ |\||_||3} 14:52, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

   You don't have a point... The fact that they don't edit does not mean that they don't use the wiki. Maybe they come here every day to read articles; how would you know? Most people who use this wiki don't edit on a regular basis. Policies affect only the editors, but this proposal affects everyone who comes to this site, so the opinions of people like ChozoBoy are just as important as yours or mine. PenguinofDeath 20:06, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

8. I love th new logo!!! Forget the old one!!! User:Dr. Pain 99 10:43 April 2, 2010 (Pacific Time)

Oppose

1. Oppose - While your logo is of brilliant design, the one we have now is good enough. It's the Master Hand gripping the Super Smash Bros. series emblem. The representation of that is incredible. Plus, the text on it is custom. Yours has Aharoni, a type of text I find very generic and used much too often. :$ BNK ^[E|T|C] 02:50, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

   Aharoni was selected because it looked similar to the Wii font, but nice and bold. (I could have used Century Gothic but that's way too thin.) I would have used the font of the current logo, but I didn't know what it was, and now that you tell me it's custom I don't think I could reproduce it. (Also, I will take this opportunity to point out that I've just noticed that the current logo's Smash Bros. emblem is slightly disproportioned.) Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 03:09, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

2. Oppose - Sorry, but I don't see this as an improvement (or even a static) over the current. The current logo is unique, interesting, and not distracting to the eyes. Your proposed logo is too busy. For the logo to be in the corner of the screen the whole time someone is on this site, it shouldn't keep calling attention to itself. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 04:08, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

   There are a few options to address your "busy" opinion, such as desaturation or making it a bit smaller. The colours could even be removed entirely, but I would consider that a last resort - the colour is one of the things that makes it a bit more distinct than the inspiration. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 03:09, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

3. First of all, I believe this may be tripping over copyright laws. I am not a lawer, so I don't know for sure. I also agree with BNK, Master Hand is the main character in series. Removing him from the logo would be like the Kirby Wiki taking away Kirby from their logo. 98.111.95.78 02:20, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

   I admit that there's possibly a grey area of copyright here. In my opinion, it's close enough for people to see the reference, but unique enough (colours, symbols instead of letters, made from scratch) to be considered a reference and not a rip-off.
   You (and BNK) make a good point about Master Hand being the "main character" of the Smash Bros. series. That said, the Smash Bros. series is different from the Kirby series (and most other series) - while it does have original content, the vast majority of stuff in the Smash Bros. series comes from all its representative series. The idea that it's the union of a bunch of universes is what the proposed logo focuses on. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 03:09, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

   But the current logo has the ONE character SSB can claim as its own. The current logo has meaning, it's epic. Your proposal is great,and kinda funny (in a good way), but not original. I hope you continue to work on this stuff, but try to be a bit original, as Wikipedia was not the first wiki. 98.111.95.78 04:09, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

   Wikipedia may not have been the first wiki, but it's the most well-known by far (as I understand it). And for a logo such as this I didn't want to be too original - there were other ideas in mind, but in the end this was the cleanest and most recognizable. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 13:25, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

   The Smash Ball is the ultimate symbol of the series. It's actually the most original thing in the entire series. The proposed logo reflects that as the Smash Ball (the symbol of the Smash series) is made up of the symbols of all the other series that make up the Smash series. It means something, unlike the current logo which just looks cool. And there is no grey area of copyright here, as it's a reference, not a rip. PenguinofDeath 15:53, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

4. Oppose- The proposed one is based on the wikipedia one and isn't original. The Master Hand Logo shows that we're different from the other wikis AND it shows the main character of the game.--Megatron1 (talk) 22:47, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
5. Oppose- I'm sorry, but this just isn't that appealing to me. Yeah, it is pretty funny in a way (Wikipedia with character icons) but I like the one we have now; the one with Master Hand attempting to crush a blue Smash Ball, it's also quite original too. So, yeah, like Sonic, I like the old, familiar one better. If it ain't broke don't fix it. -Anthony1996 (talk) 03:55, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
6. Oppose- Although the possible new logo is humourous, I strongly oppose replacing the current logo. Master Hand gripping the Smash Bros. Logo has been symbolic of this site, Smashers all around the world and the series itself. I hope we shall keep the original logo for as long as this site stays up. KrustySmasherX (talk) 22:54, March 29, 2010 (UTC)KrustySmasherX
7. I find any idea of change unnecessary, and the current logo seems more symbolic and powerful, while the new logo is too "cartoonish" for me.Smoreking^(T) _(c) 22:25, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
8. Oppose -Uneven color balance. -Zixor (talk) 12:02, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
9. Oppose- The colors seem a bit garish on the Wikipedia globe, and the Smash emblem doesn't really wrap around it all too well. BALτʀο [ talk ] 05:04, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Neutralificationization I've really gotten used to the wiki's logo usual design, and yet this logo looks pretty cool. It's definitely an interesting design, but I'm really not sure.HavocReaper48 22:35, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
2. Neutral towards support. I like the design, but I can't honestly tell if the change is worthwhile/necessary. Miles (talk) 02:10, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
3. Neutral What Miles said, and I don't like the text at the bottom of the proposed logo. The parody of the wikipedia logo's pretty neat though. Cheezperson {talk}stuff 02:35, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
4. Do I have to really type neutral when this is in the neutral section? I like the idea behind it, but it just feels rather generic.L33t Silvie ^{I see wat u did thar...} 23:31, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

   Well, yes, take Mile's comment for instance- in some cases, it may not just be simply "neutral", it could be "neutral and slightly supporting ____". HavocReaper48 23:42, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

5. I wanted to note here that I much prefer the grey version of the proposed new logo. Whether that tops the current is a difficult question for me. --Sky (t · c · w) 16:31, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

   Oh, and I agree that the font sucks. Were we to use TNR or possibly Arial, I might be more responsive (or perhaps even Wikipedia's). --Sky (t · c · w) 16:33, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

6. Neutral I like them both too much to pick! --Zordon123456789mlw7 (talk) 04:19, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
7. Neutral towards oppose I think the current logo is more representative of the Smash Bros. series, what with Master Hand(one of the only characters original to the series), crushing the Smash Bros. logo, but the proposed logo is more colorful and representative of Wikipedia. You really do need a different font for the new logo, though.

Comments

Also to consider these comments. Miles (talk) 02:14, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Miles, wouldn't they have to comment here? Comments on that blog shouldn't have any impact on what happens here, you know. >:I BNK ^[E|T|C] 06:52, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

No. As long as there's a permanent record of the comments somewhere, they count. PenguinofDeath 15:53, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I was simply trying to get a cross-section of the wider Smash community for a variety of opinions. Miles (talk) 20:21, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Toomai, if you could find a Custom Text to go on the bottom of the proposed logo, I might neutrally lean towards supporting it. Preferrably the text seen in the Super Smash Bros. series games and their titles. Also, if you could just fit the Master hand in there somewhere... like, make him grab the Wikiglobe or something. I imagine that you might need to do some more tweaking, but with your picture-editing skills, it shouldn't be too much of a hassle. :) BNK ^[E|T|C] 23:35, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. If you do something like that, I will support you. 98.111.95.78 01:57, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean simply using a font from, say, a game's box art? If so, that would be either difficult (SSB64's title and the "Brawl" on SSBB's are incomplete fonts) or boring (the "Super Smash Bros." on SSBM's and SSBB's cover is simply a prettied-up Times New Roman, and using anything other than plain TNR would make the text stand out too much). I could do custom lettering, but based on past font experience it may look displeasing. Now, Aharoni wasn't the only font I had on the list when I put this up - others included Comic Sans MS (generic but not bad otherwise), Copperplate Gothic Bold (nice and statement-like), Jokerman (a personal favourite, but probably too chaotic), and Snap ITC (think and goofy but probably too weird). Currently, I'm looking for a font that emulates the Brawl menus and damage %s - I'd appreciate help with such if you can give it. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 03:16, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

It would still be original. It's the best idea for the image, but if you have trouble finding fonts, download one from here. There are plenty to choose from, and since it is an image, you won't need to worry about other people needing to download the font you used. BNK ^[E|T|C] 04:47, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

@Toomai: Actually, I meant that I agree in putting MH in there. I don't really care about the font. 98.111.95.78 23:30, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

I've put up a version using American Garamond - which looks like it could be the Wikipedia font. Also, I've looked into seeing what I could do with Master Hand, but it's looking like it ain't gonna happen. Shrinking the globe any more will make parts even more unrecognizable, and putting him inside peeking out looked more like "what the heck it's got ears" than "oh, that's Master Hand" - not to mention that Blender decided to crash a few minutes afterward. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 19:35, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

I'm liking this better. Is there any chance you could use small uppercase letters in place of lowercase, again a la Wikipedia? Miles (talk) 21:14, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Will look into it; small caps are finnicky but I can agree it might look a lot better. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 02:05, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Uploaded by Mr. Alex. It's the best I've seen! BNK ^[E|T|C] 23:03, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

There is a debate about the new logo. While some like the new logo because it is colorful and it is styled after the wikipedia logo, some would rather keep the original logo because the new one doesn't have Master Hand, in which they consider that an important detail. Here's an alternate version of my logo. This one is more similar to the original one. --Mr Alex (T) 23:24, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

I vote no on Master Hand. I thought the whole point of this was change. Miles (talk) 01:13, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Exactly. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 02:05, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Which is exactly why I vote for the Brawl Artwork of Master Hand for the image. Besides, it looks less like a rip. Plus, its more representative!. BNK ^[E|T|C] 01:47, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

If you want Master Hand in the logo so badly, then I'll provide an interesting-looking Smash Ball or something. In my opinion, having both Master Hand and the Wikipedia reference in the same logo is overkill and does not look very good (there's no way to put Master hand in there without him dominating the image space, making the globe look constricted). Toomai Glittershine eXemplary Logic 02:05, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Hear me out: It's obvious that this won't go anywhere and we'll never reach a decision with these unbalanced choices. I support your current logo, Toomai, but the font needs to be black. That's it, and you'll have my full support. I figured that the Master Hand makes the SW Globe look small, and if we enlarge it, Master Hand will end up not being able to fit at the top right. If we shrink the Master Hand, that still wouldn't look right, so there. Also, you're still welcome to surprise us with the Smash Ball thing you were talking about. BNK ^[E|T|C] 03:25, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

I remember a time when the logo on this wiki was changed every few weeks without any warning. Now it's like a frickin' debacle over a damn logo. Who cares? Kperfekt ^{BURN!!! Revert That!} 06:17, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Right helpful post that was... Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 06:26, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Why has the logo turned into an upside-down smashball?|-|16#\/\/4¥ []D(_)/\/\|D% ^{|_0|_7_ |\||_||3} 00:30, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

It's April Fools Day, yo. -Anthony1996 (talk) 00:43, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Oh i get it haha|-|16#\/\/4¥ []D(_)/\/\|D% ^{|_0|_7_ |\||_||3} 01:15, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Alright then, I've put up a new font idea, based on the font of the current logo. This is the last version of this logo I'm going to consider. Toomai Glittershine The Table Designer 13:36, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Retro font doesn't really work at that size. The outline is clearly blurring the white in "Wiki" and the font appears to be a bit-map font, which really doesn't work at that size as well as a vector based font would. I still probably prefer the current, but the American Garmond font works for me as well. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 16:28, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

edit: On second thought, vector vs. bitmap wouldn't be the issue here. The font still isn't quite working at that small of a size... Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 16:29, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'm still hoping for American Garamond with small caps. :/ Miles (talk) 16:52, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Black American Garamond, you mean. Purple is nasty. BNK ^[E|T|C] 22:26, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

I care more that there's small caps and less that it be black instead of purple. Though IMO either black or purple would work. Miles (talk) 22:46, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

I just changed it into small caps and black text, and I have to say it looks rather good. That said, it looks even more like a Wikipedia rip-off now. (And by the way, it's not purple, it's light blue - #7f7fff.) Toomai Glittershine eXemplary Logic 23:00, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well, this is certainly a bit of a sticky wicket. BNK ^[E|T|C] 23:23, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

imo, black all-caps makes it stand out too much from the much more subtly colored Smash Ball part of the logo. The light blue Aharoni doesn't stand out from the rest, and in fact suits it rather well aesthetically as well as being reminiscent of the Wii font. And as Toomai said, the black all-caps American Garamond is so similar to the Wikipedia logo that it's starting to look more like a rip-off than a clever play on it. PenguinofDeath 23:33, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

I just want mah small caps American Garamond. I agree thouh, PoD, that the dark black is too contrasting. :/ Miles (talk) 23:35, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Miles, the light blue is still sort of babyish. For a Wiki dedicated to Smash Bros... talk about contrasting. OK, black is out, light blue is still an in-air option... I have an idea; let's make the letters all different colors. That way, it matches the different color character emblems and has a bit of smash ball intact. BNK ^[E|T|C] 23:38, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

I like the black American Garamond much better than the other two.highway pumpy ^sfs 19:56, April 6, 2010 (UTC)