User talk:Toomai/Fixed Brawl

Suggestions

• For the Kirby Aura Sphere thing, I believe that was intentional. Kirby does not have manipulation of "aura" like Lucario does, so it makes sense for his variation of Aura Sphere to be unaffected by damage. As such, his Aura Sphere should not be modified to resemble Lucario's exactly.

• For grab releases, is this fixing timing on grab releases only (Bowser, DK, Jigglypuff, PK Kids), or fixing animation as well (the air releases of Wario, Meta Knight, and Squirtle)? For the former, I think they should be fixed, as even though we don't know if they were intentional or not, as you said, there is no logic giving these few specific characters a different amount of lag during grab releases.

For other fixes;

• How about Ganoncide with Flame Choke? As it is known, there are times where Ganondorf performs this, the game says he was KO'd before the opponent, which leads to situations where he loses even though both he and his opponent were on their last stock. Even though I'm not sure if this is true, it has been claimed that this is a programming error.

• Dark Dive's nearly non existent hitstun that allows characters to hit him after he releases them. Perhaps this is the result of a programming error? (I don't see why the developers would intentionally make him landing Dark Dive punishable).

• Wolf Flash, Fire Wolf, and Farore Wind killing all momentum upon completion. Is this the result of a programming error that should be fixed, or was this completely intended?

• Wolf Flash failing to grab the ledge, where once Wolf stops Wolf Flash and begins to grab the ledge, the animation suddenly stops and Wolf falls down. Is this something that should be fixed, or is it the result of how Wolf Flash works, thus being unable to fix without altering the move?

• Vine Whip failing to grab a ledge even though the animation of Ivysaur grabbing the ledge is played. I don't recall this happening with other tether recoveries.

• And how about Egg Lay sometimes failing to grab the opponent if the tip of Yoshi's tongue grabs?

Hope these were useful ideas for you. Omega Tyrant 17:57, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

Also for one more suggestion;

• With Snake grenades, there is a glitch where if a grenade is moving in the air, and Snake shield drops a grenade he is holding, the other grenade will suddenly stop moving in its track and fall straight down. Omega Tyrant 18:05, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

1. I'm talking about grab release timing only. Air release animations do not include any movement, so their trajectories can only be related to factors such as air friction, which can't be changed without altering the character.
2. I've never heard of a Ganoncide causing Ganondorf to outright lose; in any case I don't think I can fix that without moving the ThrowN bone, which would make the animation look weird.
3. Hitstun is a function of knockback, which I don't intend to change for anything, and most likely cannot be changed any other way (so it can't be an error either).
4. If they wanted moves to keep momentum they could have easily done so; see midair connected Raptor Boost.
5. Never heard of that Wolf Flash/Vine Whip stuff; haven't looked at either move yet.
6. I can get rid of Egg Lay's 1% "phantom hit", but that might cause the game to freeze instead.
7. Grenade-dropping is probably unintentional.

Toomai Glittershine The Wacko 19:02, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

1. I see
2. Ganoncide causing Ganondorf to lose was a major reason Ganondorf players such as Vermanubis pushed for the suicide rule, claiming it to be a programming error. As I know of though, no one is really sure on what situations causes Ganondorf to get KO'd first. It has been theorised it has to do with the opposing character and the exact height Ganondorf grabbed them, though consistent results have not been found from testing. There was also a rumor that this has been fixed in the PAL version, though to my knowledge, that rumor has not been proven true.
3. I know hitstun is a function of knockback, but Dark Dive is rather weird about its hitstun. It seemingly has less hitstun than other similarly strength attacks (to my knowledge, there is no other attack that is punishable from the opponent being able to attack immediately after being hit). The percentages at which Ganondorf can also be hit after landing Dark Dive tends to be in the mid percentages, where sensibly it would be in the low percentages. As such, are you sure opponents being able to hit Ganondorf immediately after he releases them from Dark Dive is not a programming error of sorts?
4. I see, but I find it odd that Wolf's and Zelda recovery moves kills their momentum to the point of them falling a considerable distance before being able to move in the air, and similar to the grab release timing, I don't see the logic behind making their recovery moves such momentum killers while it doesn't apply to other characters' recovery moves.
5. Vine Whip failing to grab the ledge could be something similar to Egg Lay's 1% phantom hit. For Wolf Flash, I think it has to do with the unusual way Wolf Flash interacts with the stage (such as causing scarring).
6. For grenade dropping, I was referring to the midair grenade drop glitch, rather than shield dropping grenades.

Also, are you going to fix the landing lag glitch? Omega Tyrant 19:49, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

I would like to say that I have seen cases where Zamus' Plasma Wire went through it's grabbing animation, yet didn't grab the ledge. I think that's probably because the player used it within reach at first, but as the player was falling, the ledge became out of range. -Ivy73 20:15, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

That would make sense, and is probably best left alone, since you can't predict if you'll be out of range in the next few frames, and disabling gravity the instant the move is used makes no sense. Toomai Glittershine The Wacko 22:22, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

Yeah, I was talking about midair grenade drops. Dark Dive might have low hitstun just because it's a throw, not sure about that one. Would like to fix the landing lag glitch if I can find out how. Toomai Glittershine The Wacko 22:22, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

It seems that you're only focusing on characters and not stages, there are multiple stage glitches that need fixing (earthquake and bridge of eldin glitches for example, also can this also be available for PAL?--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 21:29, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

I don't know right now how fixable stage glitches are, so I'm leaving them alone for now. I also don't know anything about how PAL works; I am only changing the .pac files though, so in theory as long as you have your own way of getting the files in they should work fine. Toomai Glittershine The Wacko 22:22, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

Kirby's Blaster

When Kirby copies Falco, his "hat" is the same as it was in Melee. Also in Melee, Falco's (and Fox's) blasters were typeless. I think the fact that in Brawl when Kirby uses Falco's laser it is typeless just references Melee. This is just a small observation. Blue Ninjakoopa^(Talk) 12:25, 7 November 2012 (EST)