Smasher talk:Sparg0

Adding Roy

I feel like it's a bit of a double standard since people can use secondaries against only one person, chief examples being Acola before he started using it more in 2024, and Armada who literally only used young link against Hungrybox. Even if it's only a Sonix thing, at what point does it become enough uses to make it an actual secondary? Because Roy is one of Sparg0's secondaries, he's (at the current moment,)going to be used against Sonix if he ever plays against Sonix in a set, and Sparg0 himself would probably describe Roy as a secondary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by VOIDDED (talk • contribs) 14:14, November 9, 2024 (EST)

I don't think it's necessarily a double standard, more so we shouldn't be rushing characters into the infoboxes, especially since we had a really bad issue with characters a few years back. Sparg0 so far has only used Roy solely for Sonix in two sets offline, while his overall usage, at least what Smashers.app has, is still very limited (4% usage in the last 6 months). I personally think we should add Roy when Sparg0 uses the character for more than just a Sonix counterpick, or else we'd have to do something like Corrin, who was removed because he served the exact same purpose and has barely been used since Sparg0 went Roy.

For acola, I'm pretty sure he was using Aegis all the time on Smashmate/online events, and if the Aegis was fully dropped prior to 2024 I bet she would've been removed. I'm not too sure on EVO-era Melee, but to me Armada's Young Link counterpick makes sense to add into the infobox because Hbox knew how to fight Armada's Peach, and despite being a crazy pick was both successful for several years and one of the few times during that metagame where Young Link actually saw success at majors. Melee is also a completely different metagame than Ultimate, so a low tier actually working in top level play is usually noteworthy. CookiesCreme 15:18, November 9, 2024 (EST)

I don't really get that logic. It has to be "noteworthy" enough in order to be considered a secondary? How many sets would Sparg0 need to use Roy against Sonix for it to be considered a secondary? Also why was Corrin never considered a secondary for Sparg0? He used in coinboxes often and it was more than a Sonix counterpick as he used it against Wrath, Ken, and even Riddles in offline sets.VOIDDED (talk 17:02, November 9, 2024 (EST)

Unfortunately yes, because not every character a player claims they will play or did play belongs in the infobox immediately, or else we'd get issues like these monstrosities. The latter two especially were known for their extensive character rosters, but that doesn't mean every character they played or they said they played belongs in the infobox, especially if there really wasn't much of an impact to their overall career (and for the record, I'm pretty sure Zomba himself added all those characters in). There have been many cases where players would say they would play a character but then don't, or at least don't initially, because a player's character roster often changes pretty quickly. Remember when Tweek played Ridley or Banjo? Or when, right after Glitch 8, he said his mains were Wario, Roy, and Wolf, only to then basically drop Roy and return to PT within a month? Usually for Ultimate, a rule of thumb for "noteworthiness" is if a player used a character regularly and successfully in tournament for around a month, and not just against a single player. So for example, we never added Sora to Maister or Dabuz because both players used Sora for only a couple of events, and ultimately lost the set they used Sora in. Currently, Sparg0 has only used Roy against Sonix twice offline and a few other non-top players online, which doesn't really meet our rule of thumb, and since we don't know how long Sparg0 would use Roy as a Sonix/Sonic counterpick in the forseeable future, we shouldn't just rush it and add Roy to Sparg0 just in case the character is dropped within a month or so.

In addition, not all characters in infoboxes can stay or become relegated to "retired characters". For example Corrin, which I kind of brushed over. We originally did have Corrin in the infobox because Sparg0 did use him a good amount at smaller offline events, against Sonic players, and even online. However since then Sparg0 has, at least for the time being, dropped Corrin. Since Sparg0's Corrin didn't really have much impact on the metagame or his career (he has had far more success with Cloud and Aegis than Corrin), Corrin was removed from the infobox. CookiesCreme 18:12, November 9, 2024 (EST)