Talk:Lucina (SSB4)

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Trivia point about the website is not true: [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.26.240.80 (talk • contribs) 10:06, July 14, 2014‎ (CDT)

The browser version of the site gave Lucina a small slot however. ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) is made in America 11:18, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

Hm. It's not like that on web. Nutta Butta (talk) 11:18, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

I figure there is some miscommunication between Sakurai and the website designers (especially what with her most likely being an alternate skin for Marth). Let's just call her a Newcomer until we get an official confirmation of what she really is. ♡FirstaLasto♥ 11:24, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

Why is she "most likely an alternate skin"? She got her own "Lucina joins the battle"-type thing. None of the other skins did. Nutta Butta (talk) 11:25, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

She's not an alternate skin. She just shares some moves with Marth, which perplexes me because I thought Sakurai was done with [semi-]clones not named Toon Link. blue ninjakoopa 11:27, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

This isn't the place to discuss it, so I'll just point out the ? after her 参戦!/Wakes Her Blade! (among other things) and leave it at that. ♡FirstaLasto♥ 11:31, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

Depending on what we come up with, we can add it to the page. I'm not sure about the "Wakes Her Blade?!" thing, but I do not think she'd be an alternate skin. The other alternate skins are just outfits whereas this is a character, and (again) she got her "Joins The Battle" moment. And she's on the website. If it were truly a mistake, wouldn't Chrom be there too? I don't see why they would make just one mistake. Her stance is a little different, and I'm pretty sure she had some attacks Marth doesn't. There is no true proof that she is a costume, besides some similar attacks (which is a reference to her pretending to be Marth, I'm sure), whereas there is lots of proof that she's a unique character. Nutta Butta (talk) 11:36, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

(Edit conflict)"Among other things?" The question mark is definitely interesting. Also, as this is Lucina's talk page, it's definitely the place to discuss her controversial status. Don't leave, defend your theory. blue ninjakoopa 11:38, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

Okay, if you think discussing it will be good for the article, every single move she has been shown to use so far has been exactly the same as Marth, she was shown first in the trailer and yet was given less screen time, as well as despite this, her gameplay being shown later in the trailer instead of first (both like with Charizard on his reveal), the 参戦!? as opposed to the usual 参戦!, along with these mixups on the websites, the fact that no trailer has revealed multiple newcomers as of yet, and the fact that many characters have been given alternate-gender costumes. I don't know why you say there is any proof she's a unique character; there isn't proof of either side of this argument yet, but aside from the fact that she is actually a seperate person from Marth (unlike the other genderswap costumes, which are technically different people, but fill the same role in gameplay), there isn't much pushing for her being a unique one. I don't see how Chrom has anything to do with it; he was very obviously not a playable character, and regardless, making a single mistake is more likely than making all possible mistakes, don't you think? ♡FirstaLasto♥ 11:47, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

Sakurai posted about the image showing the "newcomers". So unless he was referring to Mega Man, I think she's separate. Nutta Butta (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

She has a character page. This alone should end the conversation. Unless Sakurai explicitly says she's an alternate for Marth as opposed to a clone, she will be treated as a separate character. End of story. Miles (talk) 11:53, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

@Miles: I agree, we should treat her as a newcomer until/unless otherwise is confirmed.

@Nutta: That could easily be a translation issue; Japanese rarely distinguishes between singular and plural in the same way English does. Anyways, we'll probably find out soon enough. ♡FirstaLasto♥ 11:57, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

Not trying to fire this up again, but I think it's also worth noting that Marth does not wield Lucina's disguise mask at all, while we've already seen Lucina holding it, and the fact that even on the web version of the Smash 4 site in the news they say "The introduction for a new challenger, Lucina, is now available." In tandem with the information we already have, the fact that we have never gotten less than two clones, or semi-clones (i.e. Luigi and Jigglypuff, 20% of Melee, Lucas and Toon Link) in each new installment, I think we can safely assume that she is her own character. Laikue (talk) 14:22, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

Sakurai says: Actual roster spot. https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADRUqGH9l5mlg MalcolmReynolds (talk) 03:43, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

I understand this is a pretty explosive page as it is, but I just want to point out that, in today's Miiverse Post, Sakurai said that Lucina's 'physical abilities' are identical to Marth's, but didn't say anything about her moveset (aside from the sweetspot stuff). I would say that he's talking about Lucina's physics being the same as Marth's, but I can't quite be sure. Either way, he didn't outright say that Lucina has the exact same moveset, and we didn't see her entire moveset in her trailer, so I think that we should change the thing that says her moveset is identical to Marth's. Maybe we could have it say that they are clones to an extent that we're unsure of as of yet? Nymbare and his talk 09:54, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

Lag

Look at the landing lag of this; it looks just like Marth's L-cancelled nair in Melee. Lucina seems to be a less powerful but less laggy version of Marth so far. Is it worth mentioning that her moves appear to have less lag? Scr7(talk · contribs) 11:27, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

Lag is something very iffy to write about, as it could very easily be tweaked in the final version. The supposed laggy Marth we got at the Invitational could have easily gotten some lag reduction since, so it's something that we should avoid writing about it for now. Omega Tyrant 11:30, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

Japanese Miiverse Post

彼女の体術は、縁ゆえかマルスと同じ。 - [This] actually says that her "combat techniques" are identical to Marth's. Well, more specifically, it says her "Taijutsu" is the same. Taijutsu is commonly used in Japanese to refer to martial arts in general. I'm posting it on the talk page instead of in the article because I figure using a Japanese post as a reference wouldn't be enough proof to change her known moveset section, but I thought I'd spread the news. ♡FirstaLasto♥ 12:29, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

Might as well use this section to point out that the Famitsu scans make this even clearer by using ワザ (which Sakurai uses when talking about normal and special attacks). Her moveset is identical to Marth; a melee-style clone. ♡FirstaLasto♥ 02:19, 17 July 2014 (EDT)

Special Move Animations

The page states that Lucina's special moves all share animations with Marth's; however, upon comparison, I noticed that what seems to be Lucina's Counter has her strike the pose in her official artwork, so that the hilt of the Falchion is basically in front of her face. Marth's Counter has him hold the hilt is almost so that it is behind his head, and the sword is tilted much less steeply. Also, although the entirety of Marth's Dancing Blade has yet to be revealed, Lucina has a backwards stab in her version that Marth did not in Brawl. If anything, because we haven't seen all of Marth's Dancing Blade, we shouldn't say that Lucina's version has the same animation. ScizorSteelix (talk) 00:06, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Of course, we can't be sure that the pose I was referring to was actually "Counter". ScizorSteelix (talk) 00:22, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Kirby Hat

I found a Magazine scan that showed Kirby's hat of Lucina is her Marth Mask. Where would this information go?Guybrush20X6 (talk) 15:55, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Could you show us the image? For now, I think it belongs on the Kirby_(SSB4) page, but eventually it would go on the Copy_Ability_(SSB4) page. ♡FirstaLasto♥ 15:59, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

[[2]] Guybrush20X6 (talk) 16:08, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Yeah, feel free to cut it out and put it on the Kirby page. Also, don't post images on talk pages, just link them instead. ♡FirstaLasto♥ 16:16, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Sorry, not used to the link system Guybrush20X6 (talk) 16:29, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Where are you finding these Famitsu scans? Miles (talk) 16:31, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Someone was posting them on Know your Meme. If only I could actually read them. Guybrush20X6 (talk) 17:01, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

No worries, I'm the unofficial Official Resident Otaku of Smash Wiki -3-; I can read some of it. I've already updated the wiki with some of the info. ♡FirstaLasto♥ 17:07, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Move names

Was it ever confirmed (preferably by Sakurai/Nintendo) that her moves share names too? Just because she's a moveset clone doesn't make that true- Pichu uses Agility but Pikachu uses Quick Attack, and all of Roy's moves had different names. ...a new Nuttais approaching... 11:04, 21 July 2014 (EDT)

This scan from Famitsu shows the names. Even as someone who can't read Japanese, it's simple enough to compare to the Japanese names of Marth's moves and see that they match. Miles (talk) 11:41, 21 July 2014 (EDT)

Ah, I see. Thanks. ...a new Nuttais approaching... 07:30, 23 July 2014 (EDT)

Jigglypuff's Gender?

I'm relatively certain that prior games have referred to Jigglypuff as female, and Jigglypuff is always an unlockable character, so the last trivia bit about being the only unlockable female character is untrue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.85.191 (talk • contribs) 16:58, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Nope, Jiggles is gender neutral. ...a new Nuttais approaching... 17:00, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

I generally consider Jigglypuff to be a female. It's just my opinion, but a majority of the Smash community believes it too. Aidan the Intermediate Gamer (talk) 17:21, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Unless it is officially stated, all Pokemon can technically be either, as per the games. Other exceptions include a Pokemon that can only have one gender, or is genderless. --HavocReaper48 18:58, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Think about it this way: every Pokémon (excluding Jigglypuff) is voiced by a male in English. For example, Lucario is voiced by Bill Rodgers in Brawl and Sean Schemmel in SSB4.

If VA's aren't enough, there's gender differences. Yes, no Pokémon except Pikachu has this distinction, but female Pikachu have a dent in their tail. Something Pikachu in Smash doesn't. This implies that the Pikachu in Smash is a male.

Sure, this is speculation as a whole. But, then again, Sheik is (apparently) a male in the Zelda series, but a female in Smash. So who knows. Aidan the Intermediate Gamer (talk) 19:23, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Off-topic, Sheik was confirmed Female by Nintendo. The persona known as Sheik is referred to as male, due to the fact that's the gender Zelda was disguising herself as. Sheik is still Zelda in disguise, who is female. On-topic, we have a ton of discussions on this already, you may choose to refer to the Pokemon with whatever gender you want, but you may not do so in main-space articles, as Nintendo has kept them all gender neutral in Smash. (With the exception of a minor slip-up on Lucario's trophy in Brawl) Laikue (talk|contribs) 19:39, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Lucina's Custom Move names

The "Custom Moves" section has names that are not accurate to the NTSC-U English version of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U. Since the USA version of Sm4sh U is the most dominent platform, I feel that its localization should be respected above other versions of the game.

Therefore, "Assault Dash" should be changed "Dashing Assault"; "Easy Combination" should be "Effortless Blade".

Of course, the alternate names (are they from the European version, or something) SHOULD be retained as information on the page, perhaps in the "trivia" section, or in a distinct "localization" section, with appropriate footnotes next to the American names.

If no one objects, I'll make the changes ASAP. Brightcoat (talk) 11:12, 15 December 2014 (EST)

The wiki used a lot of Japanese names for the move names before the game came out. That said, a lot of customizable moves on certain pages have inaccurate names. By changing it to be accurate, you're doing us all a huge favor. BlueStreak Speeds By 11:28, 15 December 2014 (EST)

I'd love to fix them all up (I have them ALL unlocked), but many of the pages in question are protected from editing. How should I go about actually affecting the corrections in question? I'm new here, obviously. Brightcoat (talk) 11:40, 15 December 2014 (EST)

You have to be autoconfirmed to do that. Give it a while, and you should be good. BlueStreak Speeds By 11:58, 15 December 2014 (EST)

Ah, good. I'm not sure how to determine if a page is semi-protected or fully-protected, but once I get autoconfirmed I'll do a sweep of the SSB4 character pages and fix any discrepancies. Relatedly, can you tell me how to add some sort of mouse-over icon (like one of those little cross things) that I can put next to the changed movenames, so that when the symbol gets hovered on, it can display the alternate name? Brightcoat (talk) 12:06, 15 December 2014 (EST)