User talk:162.251.172.162

Definitive best in the world

Hey, try to avoid using definitive best in the worlds unless it’s obvious such as MkLeo for Joker or Samsora for Peach. Captain L and Arika have rather comparable Jigglypuff results, especially when the latter was solo Puff. CookiesCreme 11:32, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

Got it. I wonder how does one become the best in the world with a character? Don't the results and wins play a part in it? Most of the time, I'm just putting the title the best, where it was originally, before the Most Historically Significant Players existed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.251.172.162 (talk • contribs) 12:48, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

The old notable player sections are often outdated, messy, extremely biased, and filled with a lot of fluff, so you shouldn't really go off of them.

While results and wins do play a part in the decision, you also need to look into the whole picture. For Captain L, he does have a win over Larry Lurr, but he only used Jigglypuff in the last 2 games, while Larry Lurr used Diddy Kong, a character he doesn't main, for the last game. Furthermore, most of his good placements were actually with Pikachu, as Jigglypuff was used as a sandbag/counterpick character. On the other hand, Arika is a solo-Jigglypuff and has seen rather solid results in Japan, most notably 17th at Umebura Smash 4 Final, the highest placement a solo-Jigglypuff has seen at a national, and also has wins over Kome and masashi. As a result, it is kind of hard to say who is actually better, hence why it's less biased to say that both are "one of the best Jigglypuff players in the world."

On the other hand, you have someone like MkLeo, who is the best player in the world. His Joker helped him win a bunch of majors and supermajors, and no one has matched his achievements so far. With how dominant MkLeo is, it's very silly to note that he's "one of the best" Joker players, which is why iwe say MkLeo is the "best Joker in the world."

tl;dr, "best in the world" should only be given to those who have clear dominance with a character in a game's lifespan, while "one of the best" is the safer alternative when it's more difficult to decipher due to similar performances. CookiesCreme 13:06, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

So if results, wins, and characters that they won with, play a part, does that mean Suarez is the best Yoshi? He has good results and has wins over major players like LeoN, and Light, two of the most dominant players in Ultimate's history. And does that mean that Nery doesn't really deserve his title as the best Isabelle player? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.251.172.162 (talk • contribs) 13:12, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

I don't believe thats how it works, Suarez results dropped after season 1 and there are other Yoshi with comparable results, also why is LeoN most dominant? There are certainly more dominant players than him. As for Nery u should take a look into Isabelle, most other players either secondaries her or mostly play online. NPM Morr!? 13:25, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

I would say yes for Nery, but Suarez has fallen off a bit since the first season. Also, both Ron and Meme have similar if not better results; the former has wins over Shuton and T while the latter has wins over Maister and Light.

As for LeoN, while he is the best Bowser player in the world, he isn't a really dominant player, especially with his results prior to the pandemic. CookiesCreme 13:30, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

Yes LeoN and Light, aren't as dominant as they were before but they were getting top 10 at least at major tournaments, and the fact that Suarez beat them is an achievement despite them not being as good nowadays. I have another person that should be the best is Shuton with Olimar. He won EVO and isn't EVO the biggest tournament in the world?

Shuton won EVO Japan 2020, which is only the 4th largest Ultimate tournament so far. Even then, Dabuz consistently places no lower than 9th at most tournaments he attend, even nationals, while Shuton has slightly less consistent placements, especially oversees. CookiesCreme 13:50, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

Fair point. But what about LeoN and Light? Look at their results, Light has cooled off a bit, but LeoN has been getting top 10 before the pandemic, aside from a 33rd and 25th place, he was dominant. Light has kinda cooled off. I have another question, and this is about the Greatest Of All Time page, should there be a Online section?

I have no idea where you're pulling the data from LeoN. His S-tier performances were 33rd at Let's Make Big Moves and 25th at Frostbite 2020. His A-tier performance was 13th at Glitch 8 - Missingno. His only other PGR tournament was 13th at Overclocked Ultimate IV. The 1st place at Oasis was in Australia, a weaker region compared to the United States. These results are in no way "dominant," which would be consistent top 8 placements at almost every tournament he attended. His recent results, while really good, are mostly at a couple regional-level tournaments during a period where offline is slowly coming back.

Ultimate's metagame is also still developing, so there shouldn't be a rush to include anyone else aside from MkLeo in my opinion. Even if we do include online, there isn't a single best online player if you look at its entire history. king_chris was considered the best before the pandemic, then players such as Sparg0, Kola, BestNess, Sonix, and Maister became contenders during the pandemic. While Sparg0 did eventually edge out the competition, he wasn't as dominant as anyone else listed on the GOAT page, especially with Sonix and Maister close behind him. CookiesCreme 14:07, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

Ok. Fair Point. I'll stop putting the best player in the world on people that don't have the results and ill look at their characters in the tounament.

Last time you'll hear from me: Why isn't SDX/Secret, the best Mewtwo, in the Most Historically Significant Players, wasn't he the best Mewtwo player when he played Mewtwo?