Talk:List of spirits (disambiguation)

Archive

1. 1

Reworking the layout of the spirits pages

Long ago, I separated the battle data from the spirits stats because the spirits per series pages were way too cluttered. Since then, a lot of extra data as been added and/or reorganized (music, inspiration, stats) and the lists are now very cluttered yet again. A year ago, I proposed to rework the whole layout of those page to make them more readable, but the moderators consider that such a change requires a consensus, and because of the lack of comments on the proposition, it just went nowhere. So here I am now, making the same proposition again, hoping this time you'll all give your opinion about it.

The proposition consist of two main changes that are explained in separate sub-sections bellow to allow you to reply to each one separately:

• Moving the origin informations out of the spirit stats arrays, and grouping them with the series informations.
• Separating the battle inspirations from the battle data, to put them in a more generic "trivia" section.

In order to provide a preview of the result of such a change, I made a sandbox to display what the Wario series page would then look like: just click here.
YoshiRyu (talk) 07:02, February 21, 2021 (EST)

Moving the Origin with the series

The reasons I propose to move the origin informations with the series are the following ones:

• First, it makes little to no sense to put the spirits origin and their artwork origin with the spirits stats and the other gameplay data.
• It makes however a lot more senses to group the spirits origin and their artwork origin with their series, as all those informations are related the the spirits history.
• It also makes no senses to separate the spirits origin informations by spirit types as those information are relevant to all the spirits, regardless of their type.

Incidentally, it could make more sense to put that list at the top of the page, in order to have it start with a complete spirits list, rather than the sublists.

Here is what the "Spirit Origin" array would look like in the end:

Spirit			Origin
No.	Image	Name	Spirit Origin	Artwork Origin	Series
1		Mario	Donkey Kong	Mario Party 10	Super Mario Series
2		Builder Mario	Super Mario Maker		Super Mario Maker Series
3		Mario (Wedding)	Super Mario Odyssey		Super Mario Series
4		Luigi	Mario Bros.	Mario Party 8

YoshiRyu (talk) 07:02, February 21, 2021 (EST)

I'd personally move the series titles to the main tables and the origin moved to the origin table. Just like stats the series info is readily visible and the sticker tables do it that way too. Granted this would make my life harder because of how my battle syncing code works. It would be easier for me to have the series info with the battles as well; if the below proposal goes through then spacing won't be an issue.

I heavily disagree with the proposed placement of the origin table. I like the useful information to be front and center, I don't consider origin stuff to be useful. As a player, the information I need to play the game is stats, abilities, and maybe battle info.

Oppose the placement, neutral on everything else.

--CanvasK (talk) 08:40, February 21, 2021 (EST)

Moving the Inspirations in a new array

So, on top of messing up the readability of the battle array, this column has another problem: since it has been added, contributors have been editing it back and forth to add and remove informations that are tangentialy related to the spirit battles. Instead of fighting over it, we could simply remove the inspiration column from the battle array (keeping it for the in-game data about the battles only) and put that information in a brand new array that could either be a "Spirit trivia" section of its own or be put at the begining or the end of the regular trivia section. Such an array would allow, with proper context, to expand the battle inspiration with other informations such as why a spirit as a particular ability, or is acquired a particular way, or featured in a particular location in World of Light. I put a list of examples a how such a more generic column could be used at the end of this subsection.

Here is what this "Spirit Trivia" array would look like:

No.	Image	Name	Trivia points
104		Geno	Spirit Battle inspirations: The team that appears in his spirit battle represents the player's party in Super Mario RPG: Mario, Peach, Bowser, Mallow (represented by Kirby), and Geno (represented by Sheik). The decreased FS Meter charge time reflects one of Geno's moves, Geno Boost, which raises his allies' attack power. The stage choice represents Star Road, Geno's place of origin and a prominent location in Super Mario RPG. In World of Light, his Spirit Battle is located on the space area, reflecting how, in Super Mario RPG, Geno is a warrior from Star Road.

And here are some exemples of informations beside spirit battle inspirations that could be featured in that new trivia section:

• Lakitu & Spiny: The type of this spirit is Grab in reference of Lakitu frequently using a fishing rod for various tasks since Super Mario Kart.
• Absolutely Safe Capsule: The maximum defense stat of this spirit is 10,000, the highest in Smash, because this capsule is supposed to be impossible to break.
• Waluigi: This spirit effect is Foot Attack ↑ as a reference to Waluigi being described having strong legs in Mario Tennis/Party (not sure, but you get the idea).
• Geno: In World of Light, his Spirit Battle is located on the space area because, in Super Mario RPG, Geno is a warrior from Star Road.
• Mimicutie: In World of Light, her Spirit Battle become available after the player tries to open a fake chest, referencing how Mimicuty tricks people by looking like a chest.
• Zelda (Spirit Tracks): This spirit is enhanced from the Phantom spirit because in Spirit Tracks, Zelda is first introduced as a Phantom (not sure, but you get the idea).
• Poppi α: This spirit is available throught summoning, reflecting how in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 she is an artificial blade built by Tora.
• Aegislash: This spirit is available at Anna's Emporium to reference the fact that it is classified as a Royal Sword Pokémon in the Pokédex.
• Stack-Up: This spirit can exclusively be acquired by purchasing it in a shop, referencing how R.O.B. was initially a real life accessory for the Nes sold separatly.
• Agitha: This spirit can be obtained by completing the challenge "Collect 10 unique spirits" just like she revolved around collecting insects in Twilight Princess.

YoshiRyu (talk) 07:02, February 21, 2021 (EST)

I've been bouncing back-and-forth on how I feel about this. On one hand it adds another table to the page. On the other hand it removes the inspiration column from the battle table, which makes it much more user friendly on mobile (the Super Star inspiration takes more than a full phone screen, and makes the other more important info appear tiny). It would also allow for more trivia and have the WoL related stuff flow better. Neutral leaning towards support. --CanvasK (talk) 08:40, February 21, 2021 (EST)

I hate to be that one guy who slides into conversations, I suppose I should agree with the changes. The Pokémon Spirit Battle inspiration column does feel a bit to claustrophobic. Plus, the trivia points seem to highlight the Spirits' points in particular better than the inspiration column.Autismo555 (talk) 09:17, February 21, 2021 (EST)

It's a proposal, an open conversation. You're free to voice your thoughts on the proposed change. --CanvasK (talk) 09:53, February 21, 2021 (EST)

Cool. So would the Spirits of each series have their own trivia template apart from the Spirit Battle template, or would the battle parameters (including fighters, stage, music, rules and conditions, etc.) be included to help with the context?Autismo555 (talk) 10:50, February 21, 2021 (EST)

I think the former. If it was the latter it would be a lot of repeat info. --CanvasK (talk) 11:03, February 21, 2021 (EST)

Okay, so it would be like how YoshiRyu envisioned it? And if I may pick up where YoshiRyu left off, I'm currently conducting how his new array would appear with how I normally attempt to sort out the information regarding the Spirit Battles, World of Light information, etc.

Based on YoshiRyu's examples of the Spirits' trivia points, I've complied a few templates. Scrolling down, I've compiled these based on each different type of Spirits, including Spirits without Spirit Battles, Team Spirit Battles, Summonable Spirit Battles (with WoL information), Summon-exclusive Spirits, and Spirit Board-exclusive Spirit Battles

No.	Image	Name	Trivia points
68		F.L.U.D.D.	This spirit's Support type references how F.L.U.D.D. is used by Mario in Super Mario Sunshine. This spirit's Sticky-Floor Immunity effect references F.L.U.D.D.'s ability to wash away the paint all over Isle Delfino.
104		Geno	Spirit Battle inspirations: The puppet fighters represent the player’s party in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars: Mario, Peach, Bowser, Mallow (represented by grey Kirby) and Geno (represented by Sheik). The Sheik puppet fighter starting off with a Super Scope represents Geno’s built-in blasters built into his body. The Mario puppet fighter starting off with a Green Shell represents Mario’s NokNok Shell. The Peach puppet fighter’s Autoheal effect references Princess Toadstool’s healing spells. The Mario Galaxy stage and music reference Star Road, Geno's place of origin in Legend of the Seven Stars. The stage features falling stars and the Warp Star and Star Rod are enabled in this spirit battle, referencing Geno being a star who descended from the Star Road and inhabited the Geno doll. The Fast FS Meter battle condition references Geno Boost, one of Geno’s signature moves which raises his allies’ attack power. This spirit’s Attack Type references Geno’s high offensive capabilities in battle. In World of Light, Geno’s spirit is located in the Outer Space section, referencing Geno being a star warrior who originated from the Star Road in Legend of the Seven Stars.
208		Fierce Deity Link	Spirit Battle inspirations: The Giant Link puppet fighter and grey costume is based on Fierce Deity Link’s appearance and color scheme. The Great Bay stage represents Fierce Deity Link’s appearance in The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask, with the Moon appearing in the background, referencing how Fierce Deity Link can be obtained inside the Moon before the final boss battle. The music references both Majora’s Mask and Calamity Ganon being the main antagonists of their respective games whose boss battles feature multiple phases. This spirit’s Attack type, Sword Attack ↑ effect, and spirit battle conditions references Fierce Deity Link’s raw power incorporated in his double-handed sword. This spirit is obtainable through summoning, referencing how the Fierce Deity Mask must be obtained by trading in twenty non-transformational masks with the Moon children. In World of Light, Fierce Deity Link's spirit is located on Dharkon's side on The Final Battle map while Mythra is featured across from him on Galeem's side, referencing their ability to wield their giant swords with powers polar opposite from each other, which, in Fierce Deity Link's case, is darkness.
208		Moon	This spirit's Giant effect references the Moon's giant size. This spirit is obtainable through summoning, referencing how the Moon was summoned by Majora's Mask in The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask.
331		Dragoon	Spirit Battle inspirations: The Pilotwings stage references the flying gameplay mechanic of Kirby’s Air Ride. The music references the Dragoon being one of two legendary flying machines in Kirby’s Air Ride. The Dragoon Parts item and the battle conditions reference how assembling each individual Dragoon Part will combine into the Dragoon, known for its high speed and flight capabilities. This spirit’s Giant Killer effect references the cutscene from The Subspace Emissary where Kirby uses the Dragoon to defeat the Subspace Gunship, a giant airship cannon.