Talk:Final Smash

Standard Special still works

Many times I have gotten a smash ball, then quickly hammered the 'B' button to activate it as soon as possible. To my surprise, instead of activating my final smash, my standard special move was used instead. Why does this happen? -Is there a small period of time before you are able to use the final smash? Can you use the standard special move whenever you wish? Does anyone have more information regarding this? -It should be added to the article. Zixor (talk) 17:11, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

yeah, that happens all the time to me. I think I read about it somewhere on the wiki. linkpwns

This happening is described in the Smash Ball article, so I'm not sure if it needs to be added here. For the record, it happens if your Final Smash is not yet loaded and you press the button. Toomai (talk) 17:19, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Image/table location and wording

It doesn't matter if it's too small necessarily, it gives a general idea, and if somebody's really curious, they can click on it, As for the location, it should be beside the table, other wise it looks strange being on the right side with a blank left margin, so I put in that location at 400px, which is enough to be beside it, and give a general idea of the picture.Smoreking^(T) _(c) 01:30, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I just thought it looked better as it was. Gutripper^Speak

Care to say why? And until you do, leave it at the 400px right.Smoreking^(T) _(c) 22:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

"types"

I don't particularly like how the FS types are arranged. Why is Konga Beat considered "focused"? I think it would be a better idea to sort them by how much control they have, like this:

Character	Final Smash	Type
Bowser	Giga Bowser	Transformation
Captain Falcon	Blue Falcon	Aimed
Ice Climbers	Iceberg	Automatic
Lucario	Aura Storm	Controlled

And so on. Aimed means it hits in a certain way that needs precise aim: for example, Light Arrow, once you press the button, has no control, but you must have targets in the range. Controlled is when the attack itself works on its own, but requires additional input, like Snake's. Automatic means that you just "fire and forget", such as PK Starstorm. And Transformation would include ROB, the Landmasters, and any other FS where you actually can move the character itself around during the FS. - Gargomon251 (talk) 15:26, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

That's an interesting idea - your system classifies Final Smashes by what the user has to do, while the current system groups them by how they should be avoided. That's why Konga Beat is Focused - targets can avoid the move by being far enough away. (Yes, "far enough away" may be impossible depending on the stage, but that's not the point.) Personally, I would prefer to keep the current system, as Galaxia Darkness and Mario Finale - which would both be classified as Aimed under your idea - are significantly different in operation and strategy. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 16:29, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

What about characters like Kirby? His is trapping AND stage-wide. DK's can become trapping as well as focused and directional. See how confusing it gets? - Gargomon251 (talk) 01:26, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I think you're generalizing a bit. A FS does not become Trapping because it can suck targets in for multiple hits; a Trapping FS is one for which the target is (almost) guarenteed to take every hit once the first one lands. Therefore Konga Beat cannot be considered Trapping. It's also not Directional, since it has no blind spot - yes, the largest part of the attack only works in two directions at a time, but there's no guarentee you're safe at a specific angle. As for Cook Kirby, it can't really be considered Stage-Wide since it can be avoided at a distance. By that logic, Cook Kirby could be considered Focused, since it attacks everything in a range. However, it fits the description of Trapping better, since the first "hit" determines whether it touches you at all. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 02:42, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I sort of see what you mean, but I'd like to hear a lot more people's opinions. - Gargomon251 (talk) 22:28, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I think Toomai's right on this one -- the current setup is probably best. Miles (talk) 22:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Beast Ganon

We can't control Beast Ganon, it must be "Directional", not "Transformation" --CaioNV (talk) 02:31, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. Apparently some IP changed it last month and nobody noticed. Toomai Glittershine eXemplary Logic 03:10, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Final Smash Videos

Are there videos out there showing all the final smashes? Should that be included? --Chihuahua0 (talk) 15:19, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

Cook Kirby

Is this trapping, or focused? Mr. Anontalk 21:08, 30 September 2011 (EDT)

It's trapping because it delivers a "hit" that catches opponents and lays down an inescapable beating. It's just that unlike most trapping Final Smashes the catch range is pretty big. Toomai Glittershine The Wacko 21:09, 30 September 2011 (EDT)

I like to joke and say Kirby uses the force to trap opponents in the pot You got PNW'D by Link

?

I thought Zero suit Samus' final smash was trapping, and Meta Knight's was focused. Lucario's is controllable isn't it? And Jigglpuff's could be Stage-Wide if her's is preformed on a stage like the Final Destination. Also Snake's is controllable too, and if it will be classified as stage-wide so should Lucario's be stage-wide as well? You got PNW'D by Link

Trapping Final Smashes cannot be escaped if the first hit gets you, that's why MK's is and ZSS's isn't. Being Stage-Wide should not depend on the size of the stage, so that's why Jigglypuff's is Focused.

Lucario's and Snake's are a bit funny, but they do fit into their current categories: Lucario fires a beam in a single direction that can be controlled, and Snake covers the whole stage and leaves no hiding spots. Toomai Glittershine The Interspacial 20:55, 7 June 2012 (EDT)

Mega Lucario Debate

It has come to my attention that there is a huge debate among Smash fans as to whether or not Mega Lucario is Lucario's Final Smash in Super Smash Bros. 4. The SmashWiki is affected by this, as people will either keep adding or removing Mega Lucario from the list of Final Smashes. However, I think it is suitable to hold a discussion (or a petition, if you will).

I hold the opinion that Lucario's new Final Smash is going to be Mega Lucario. It has not been outright confirmed, but there is evidence to support my claim. We all know that Charizard's new Final Smash is going to be Mega Charizard X. And because we know that Mega Lucario is going to be in the game, it stands to reason that Lucario would follow a similar pattern. However, I have heard other reasons for the transformation, such as Lucario transforming upon reaching a certain point in terms of damage.

If you are one who agrees with my claim, please write your username on the appropriate list. If you disagree, please put your username on the appropriate list, and give a reason why you disagree with my claim. Also, if the list reaches more than 5 people, feel free to add numbers when needed.

The polls close on Monday, May 26th (Memorial Day). If enough people are against me, then I will leave this page as is. If enough people are supporting me, then I will be changing the page. If there is a tie, or no votes at all, I will still change the page, and leave a solution to be determined.

Disagree

1. JohnnyWellens - I don't think it's his Final Smash personally. I think Sakurai was very casual with some characters and their final smashes and it seems odd that he'd put so much focus on Lucario, mention his Mega Evolution but just not mention that it's his Final Smash. I think he's leaving it open to keep people guessing, I feel like if it was his Final Smash he'd just say it, otherwise there's no point to leaving it open-ended. And I think it makes sense with Lucario's aura mechanic that he'd transform (not a full on Zelda-Sheik transformation) once he reaches his aura peak. I'm open to being wrong, just my opinion at this point. JohnnyWellens 09:42, 23 May 2014 (EDT)

This discussion is irrelevant. We do not include speculation just because many editors agree it seems likely. The page will remain without Mega Lucario until it is proven. Toomai Glittershine The Yoshi 10:20, 23 May 2014 (EDT)

...I can still have my little petition, right? Aidanzapunk (talk) 11:22, 23 May 2014 (EDT)

Names of Final smashes

I believe that this video contains the official names of the final smashes for Smash 4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHLF7P7UCY ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) is bad for me 23:08, 17 June 2014 (EDT)

I don't think a video by a regular user is a good enough source, because the names we don't have may be wild guesses, which we are trying to avoid. We would have to ask that user how he got the names for those (specifically, those that we currently have left unnamed) if we are using that as a source. Berrenta (talk) 23:24, 17 June 2014 (EDT)

Yeah there's no evidence that that video has any evidence. Gonna say no on this one. Toomai Glittershine The SMASH-GINEER 23:38, 17 June 2014 (EDT)

Lucario and Dedede Final Smash update

Someone in Japan got photos of a Smash 3DS guidebook here: http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2014/09/05/80255.html It seems to confirm Mega Lucario as a Final Smash and shows that Dedede has a new Final Smash for this game. 38.124.7.10 12:53, 5 September 2014 (EDT)

Dedede's was noted on his talk page, and I relayed the info to the FS list. As for Lucario, the image seemed to be too far away to make any details. If there's a closer and clearer image of Lucario's section of that page, then it may be the proof that we need. Berrenta (talk) 13:14, 5 September 2014 (EDT)

I can discern red feet in the picture ([here]), which only Mega Lucario has. Final Smash name is five characters long, and closely matches the Japanese name for Mega Evolution (メガシンカ). The Japanese name for Lucario's Final Smash is seven characters long (はどうのあらし) and none of the characters in the image resemble that at all. At least, Lucario does have a new Final Smash. 38.124.7.10 13:51, 5 September 2014 (EDT)

That's a little better, but we'll see if this is valid enough. Berrenta (talk) 14:05, 5 September 2014 (EDT)

As someone who has a mobile device, I can zoom in and get a better look of the photo; after further inspection, I can confirm that it is indeed Mega Lucario (I laugh in the faces of whoever said it wouldn't be his Final Smash). Aidan the Intermediate Gamer (talk) 16:45, 5 September 2014 (EDT)

Everyone's final smash here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM6Oi4kCr2c Michaelmarill (talk) 18:06, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

Sweet mother of Palutena, that was amazing. Aidan the Intermediate Gamer (talk) 21:20, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

Confirmed English Names

I went to EGX 2014 today, and they were giving away booklets naming all of the character's movesets. I can't provide scans for a while, but I'll share the Final Smash names now:

• Zero Suit Samus - Gunship
• Charizard, Lucario - Mega Evolution
• King Dedede - Dedede Burst
• Greninja - Secret Ninja Attack
• Palutena - Black Hole Laser
• Robin - Pair Up
• Shulk - Chain Attack
• Mega Man - Mega Legends
• Pac-Man - Super Pac-Man
• Mii Brawler - Omega Blitz
• Mii Swordfighter - Final Edge
• Mii Gunner - Full Blast

Toast ltimatum 16:19, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

While I do believe you, let's wait until you scan them (and show us) before moving the pages. Rtzxy Smashing! 17:21, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

In the interim (Sorry that I didn't read this earlier...) I can testify to it's legitimacy.ScoreCounter 17:23, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

In the case of Mega Evolution, I don't think we should move the pages, but rather just keep them as their unofficial names and slap an unofficial tag on them. Since they are completely different Final Smashes from each other and although they share a name, they don't share a function. Plus, Mega Evolution is implied from "Mega Charizard" or "Mega Lucario" anyway. Laikue (talk|contribs) 17:26, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

Yeah, I agree with Laikue. Just slap an "unofficial" tag on those two pages. But not yet. Let's wait until we get some scans of the booklet. Fair enough? Rtzxy Smashing! 17:31, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

I think so too. Toast, tell the guys over on Icaruspedia I said hi, will you?-Anothrgamer1234 (talk) 18:27, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

I feel like I should remind people that Villager's Final Smash has a different name between NTSC and PAL regions, so we need to be careful of that kind of thing here. Toomai Glittershine The Different 17:33, 26 September 2014 (EDT)

Yeah... True. Anyway, I've uploaded some scans now. ScoreCounter 08:14, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

Okay, looked through the booklet scans, and it does have the PAL name of Villager's FS. Should the listed names be added and noted as at least PAL names to the table? Berrenta (talk) 09:58, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

It's one of those weird cases where it's all but guaranteed to be the same, but I'm not quite sure what to do. At the bare minimum, it would be appropriate to put the {{move}} template on the Final Smashes listed here, but I can't quite decide whether to rush to move them now or just wait a few days for the NTSC names. Miles (talk) 12:31, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

I say wait until we get the NTSC names. This is because, as Toomai pointed out earlier, Villager's Final Smash has different names in the PAL and NTSC regions, and we don't know if the names for the other Final Smashes listed here will be the same names for the NTSC and PAL or different names (though I have a feeling they will be the same). Rtzxy Smashing! 12:43, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

Potential problem though: The game itself does not name Final Smashes. Anywhere at all in any of the five/six text dumps that exist. They can't be customized, don't have trophies, and are only mentioned in other trophies as "[character]'s Final Smash". Toomai Glittershine The Pan-Galactic 12:37, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

I'm assuming physical copies still come with a bare-bones manual with information comparable to this booklet. Miles (talk) 12:56, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

I know Brawl did, so I'm assuming SSB43DS probably will as well. But we'll just have until October 3rd. Awesomelink234 You rang, dude? 12:58, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

I wouldn't get excited. Nintendo like to be "environmentally friendly" now, so the instruction books are now a single fold-out page with mostly just controls. These booklets (which are bigger than Brawl's instructions) may be the best we can get. Toast ltimatum 14:31, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

What about the electronic manual? The one accessed from the 3DS menu? Does it say anything? Laikue (talk|contribs) 15:52, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

I forgot games came with an electronic manual. I don't know, it might, but someone has got to check it. Rtzxy Smashing! 16:23, 27 September 2014 (EDT)

Now that the games are out, does the electronic manual (or the regular manual) say anything about the names of the Final Smashes? Rtzxy Smashing! 16:11, 3 October 2014 (EDT)

The game comes with a fold-out sheet that has names for all the starters' special moves and Final Smashes, which for at least my Canadian version (which always matches the US), all match the list at the top of this section (except for the capitalization "Super PAC-MAN"). So yes, I think we can move them now. Toomai Glittershine The Jiggy 16:16, 3 October 2014 (EDT)

Alright, I'll start moving. Rtzxy Smashing! 16:28, 3 October 2014 (EDT)

Organization for the list

I think we need to make the list non-sortable. If you sort it by final smash name or type, it's nearly impossible to figure out why only one of Pit's Final Smashes are listed (because the two are so far apart). Which also applies to other characters (ROB, Dedede, Kirby, etc.) So instead, I think we should list it more like the Character customization table (but way neater). So it's in order by universe, but with characters who have multiple final smashes being two cells long. ...a new Nuttais approaching... 15:14, 7 October 2014 (EDT)

Unnamed Final Smash Names

So, on the different pages that are titled "unnamed" on this page (i.e. Duck Hunt's Final Smash), there is a name for each Final Smash from the Prima guide for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS. Should we A. add the names to the table and/or B. change the names on the pages? Aidan the Gamer 15:19, 11 October 2014 (EDT)

My vote goes for option A, along with noting that they are from the Prima guide. Berrenta (talk) 18:23, 11 October 2014 (EDT)

You know, I might just go do that. Aidan the Gamer 19:28, 11 October 2014 (EDT)

Done and done. Aidan the Gamer 19:34, 11 October 2014 (EDT)

Now moving the pages... that's a different story. Personally, I believe Prima is a reliable source and we should move the pages accordingly, but I don't know about everyone else. So, don't move the pages until everyone else agrees with it, or we get a more reliable source (i.e. Sakurai). Rtzxy Smashing! 19:37, 11 October 2014 (EDT)

I kinda figured people would be a little pissed off if we gave the pages unofficial names. That's why I just put the names on the chart, with a note saying that the Prima guide states the names given. Aidan the Gamer 19:39, 11 October 2014 (EDT)

I'm not pissed. In fact, I agree that we should move the pages accordingly, but I'm not sure about everyone else. Thoughts? Rtzxy Smashing! 19:48, 11 October 2014 (EDT)

I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the admins (no offense if you're an admin reading this). But, like you said before, I say we wait until someone along the lines of Sakurai confirms this. As much as I love the name for Duck Hunt's Final Smash, it's not official…yet. Also, in my opinion, even Capcom could've been more creative with the names for the others. Aidan the Gamer 19:51, 11 October 2014 (EDT)

Yeah, we should wait, unless someone says otherwise. Rtzxy Smashing! 19:55, 11 October 2014 (EDT)

Black Hole Laser

So, I was doing all the Final Smashes for fun, and I decided to see if Palutena's would still work if you didn't catch an opponent. Turns out, it's kinda both trapping and directional. What should we do about it? Aidan the Gamer 19:36, 24 October 2014 (EDT)

Final Smash Names

I know, Prima may not be *that* much of a reliable source, but...what other option is there? Speculation? I'd honestly rather go with a source that we actually have than made up names. But that's just me. Aidan the Gamer 11:30, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

There are confirmed Final Smash trophies in the Wii U version, so we can get names from there. Toomai Glittershine The Superlative 11:31, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

^^^^ Miles (talk) 11:34, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

...didn't think of that one. Ah well, we got, like, what, 25 days left? We can wait. Although, I still say we put the names on the list, but keep the pages the same. Aidan the Gamer 11:36, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

Better to be generic for a few weeks than to be wrong. Miles (talk) 11:41, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

Just out of curiosity...

Wouldn't Dark Pit's and Zelda/Sheik's Final Smashes be considered trapping instead of directional? Because, going off of a previous description of a Trapping Final Smash (as stated by Toomai), "the first 'hit' determines whether or not you get hit." Dark Pit's Final Smash and the Light Arrow fit right in that category. Aidan the Gamer 09:41, 5 November 2014 (EST)

It's debatable. On the other hand, the move continues even if the initial hit doesn't get anyone, and the move is conceptually "I'll fire in this direction and hit anything in the way" as opposed to "I'll grab everyone in this area and wail on them several times". Toomai Glittershine The Producer 10:04, 5 November 2014 (EST)

Yes, but what I've noticed is, when the move doesn't hit, but someone moves in the path of the move (while the FS is still out), they don't get hit at all. Aidan the Gamer 10:07, 5 November 2014 (EST)

I'm honestly thinking of dropping the whole categories idea anyway. We don't do it for any other special moves, and there's always those few that don't fit right and ruin the whole thing. Toomai Glittershine The Quiet 10:36, 5 November 2014 (EST)

Why not just put "Trapping/Directional"?

Zrksyd (talk) 10:45, 5 November 2014 (EST)

I say we remove them altogether. I wasn't really the biggest fan of them to begin with. Aidan the Gamer 10:53, 5 November 2014 (EST)

Final Smashes in Wii U

A video of the Final Smashes in the Wii U version. There appears to be a difference in damage that what's listed in each characters SSB4 profiles in case anyone's still editing those. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk5zWBCNu2E 72.50.83.52 09:55, 8 November 2014 (EST)

I honestly don't think there would be a difference in damage between versions. The two games are basically the same, just on different systems with different modes and stages. Aidan the Gamer 09:57, 8 November 2014 (EST)

I know, but what's listed in some of the characters profile doesn't seem to match the video. Like for example, Marth's once said his Final Smash does 64 damage, but the video shows it capping at 60.72.50.83.52 12:28, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Also, Mario's profile said the max damage for his final smash is 31, but the video showed it doing 33, as well as the total damage ultimately depending on how long a character stays trapped in the flames.72.50.83.52 12:33, 8 November 2014 (EST)

I don't know why Marth's said 64, but last time I checked, it does 60 in the 3DS version too. As for Mario, your two statements cancel each other out, because if the damage depends on how long you keep the opponent in the flames, then it shouldn't matter if it tops out at 31 or 33. Aidan the Gamer 12:45, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Just Asking

I was considering putting trivia on Pichu, Young Link, and Roy's pages that they're the only characters without Final Smashes (since I thought three was a small enough number), but could I count PM in the trivia, thus making it only Pichu and Young Link without Final Smashes, which is more notable. Would this be appropriate or not, since PM is basically only mentioned on the pages completely relevant to it. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 12:36, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Excluding Roy because he has a Final Smash in PM should not be done, as PM is not mainspace. However, I'm not sure that trivia is even notable, as the reason they don't have Final Smashes is because they never appeared in games past Melee. ♡FirstaLasto♥ 12:40, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Even if you did include PM in there, then you could eliminate Squirtle and Ivysaur, because neither of them have Final Smashes in PM. That said, they are a part of Triple Finish, so idk. Aidan the Gamer 12:48, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Maybe it would be more notable to state that Squirtle and Ivysaur are the only characters introduced in Brawl to not have their own Final Smashes, although that would have to be phrased well to avoid Triple Finish. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 12:51, 8 November 2014 (EST)

This kind of trivia veers into the self-evident and isn't really necessary to point out. I'm sure anybody who knows which games have Final Smashes can determine this for themselves quite easily. Miles (talk) 12:57, 8 November 2014 (EST)

Final Smash glitch

So I found this. Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura 16:23, 3 April 2015 (EDT)

Drop the "types"

I'm going to propose that the Final Smash "types" we currently have in use be removed. There's too many Final Smashes that don't fit neatly into these very limiting categories, and there's not really an official basis or anything for them either. They're just inconsistently applied fan terms that don't do a whole lot for us. This has been suggested before but I figured it was worth having a direct discussion of the topic. Thoughts? Miles (talk) 13:09, 25 June 2015 (EDT)

I cannot support the removal of these pointless terms enough. Nyargleblargle (Talk) 14:20, 25 June 2015 (EDT)

Strong strong STRONG support. Yes I realize that many strongs is pointless but I just want to make clear how much I support it. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 16:56, 25 June 2015 (EDT)

Perhaps we should do this for all attacks? Support by the way. Serpent King (talk) 17:44, 25 June 2015 (EDT)

Yeah I'm getting rid of them this instant (as I planned to do a while ago but simply forgot). SSB4 really ruined the whole idea. Toomai Glittershine The Boss 17:50, 25 June 2015 (EDT)