Talk:Hitstun canceling

Deletion

Hard oppose. Hitstun cancelling is a major and game-changing mechanic, and it is a large part of what makes Brawl such a vastly different game from the others in the series. With this in mind, why on earth should we demote it to sporadic descriptions on other pages? Just because it's possible to do so doesn't mean it's a good idea, which seems to be the crux of the argument for the merge. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 12:05, 24 August 2018 (EDT)

As it stands now, it's far from sporadic; the hitstun page actually has more information on hitstun canceling than the actual page created for it. The former has 5 paragraphs for it in the Brawl section and 3 in the Smash 4 section, while the hitstun canceling page has only 2 and 1 respectively. You could carry it all over, but then both pages would have the exact same information, unless you remove almost the entire Brawl and Smash 4 sections from the hitstun page and conversely demote them to one-liners (because hitstun in those games barely changed at all aside from hitstun canceling). Considering hitstun canceling is the most important aspect of hitstun in both games, but at the same time it's directly tied in to hitstun, why not keep it right there so it's easier to compare to other games, instead of incoherently dragging it to its own page? Several other actions and mechanics that are different on paper but ultimately tied to the same concept, such as meteor smashing and meteor canceling, or DI and LSI, also share one page. DracoRex, Creator of the Land 12:47, 24 August 2018 (EDT)

Ok well firstly, if your problem with this page is detail, you can always improve the page yourself. Secondly I would argue that the hitstun page could use some trimming in the Brawl and Smash 4 sections, as they are already far longer than the first two anyway (come to think of it it seems like some mechanics of hitstun are missing from that page too, but maybe it's just me). Lastly, I believe that if a mechanic is highly game-changing, then it deserves its own page. In fact I would not be opposed to merging the momentum cancelling page with this one and leaving a redirect to the correct section, as momentum cancelling is just one consequence of hitstun canceling, and therefore seems like it should be a section on this page. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 12:54, 24 August 2018 (EDT)

1. That's actually the reason I went to this page: I noticed how lacking it was compared to the standard one and thought of carrying the information over, but then it'd end up being redundant unless you deleted that information in said page. Which brings me to the second point:
2. The main differences Brawl and Smash 4 hitstun has from other games (and themselves) is hitstun canceling, and the point of having separate sections for each game is to list the differences. Brawl's hitstun was otherwise the exact same as Melee's, and Smash 4's only difference was adding or deducting one frame under very specific conditions. Anything else to add would be common to every game. Would you rather only list that and leave the far more important information to another page where it can't be compared to other games as coherently?
3. Meteor canceling and LSI are game-changing too, but they're similar enough to their related mechanics to the point information on them is organized better if it's listed together. Meteor smashes can result in very early KOs - which is what meteor canceling helps to prevent, and hitstun can result in heavy damage from combos and KO confirms - which is what hitstun canceling helps to prevent. Likewise, DI and LSI are used in different situations, but happen at the same time and have the same purpose. As for merging momentum canceling with this page, the page for it is significantly larger by comparison, and focuses more on how it benefits each character rather than the general mechanics, so if you did that, you'd still get a page with a focus on momentum canceling.

Here are my inputs on the matter. Now I'd see what the rest thinks about this. DracoRex, Creator of the Land 13:41, 24 August 2018 (EDT)

Merge

I'll start the discussion I guess. I don't see a reason not to have both a hitstun page and a hitstun cancelling page, as both, while having similarities, still have their differences. We can always move all hitstun cancelling things from the hitstun page over here. SugarCookie 420 17:39, 7 March 2019 (EST)

The discussion already started above. At some point the delete template was replaced with a merge, but in practice the outcome will be the same either way. Alex the Jigglypuff trainer 17:45, 7 March 2019 (EST)

Well, I guess I'll just use this opportunity to bump the discussion. SugarCookie 420 17:54, 7 March 2019 (EST)