Talk:Hero/Archive 1

Handling the separate characters

How are we gonna go about this? I could see a case for keeping them merged a la Pokemon Trainer, but Red and Leaf are traditionally just genderswaps of the same character (with only Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee depicting them otherwise, and the female trainer there is debatably not the same person) like Robin/Corrin, whereas all of these characters are technically different characters with different histories. TheNuttyOne 13:46, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

In my opinion it'd be best to cover them all on this page, where the intro text is general and the individual histories are in subsections. I wouldn't be averse to multiple infoboxes on the page, either. Miles (talk) 13:52, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

I’m with Miles on this. However, we don’t need multiple infoboxes. We have a tabber for a reason. We just need to put in each Hero’s image into the main info box and list each first appearance. I know that the first appearance section may look bloated, but it’ll look even more bloated with multiple infoboxes. Lou Cena (talk) 14:02, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

Erm. Thought.

The Hero's Final Smash summons other heroes fron other games.

We make pages for characters featured in Final Smashes.

That's eleven different characters, each with unique backstories and appearances, all sharing one page.

That's gonna look sloppy as heck. Just saying. TheNuttyOne 03:00, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Name

Now that we've established that his name is not "Irebun", should we refer to him as "The Luminary" or just "Luminary"? Arqade (Talk) 20:59, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

Hopefully just “Luminary”. He was called “The Hero” in the trailer despite only being called Hero ingame, probably because the announcer yelling “The Hero!!” would sound awkward. We should probably call him just “Luminary” to make things easier to read. Lou Cena (talk) 21:01, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

Heroes' Names

There have been conflict on which names should be used for the Heroes. On the Dragon Quest wiki, the Heroes are referred to as Irebun (Dragon Quest XI), Erdrick (Dragon Quest III), Solo (Dragon Quest IV), and Eight (Dragon Quest VIII). Shouldn't these be what we refer to them as? It appears that is what the Dragon Quest community refers to them by. At least, the community in charge of the Dragon Quest wiki anyway. Wolff (talk) 21:01, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

"Irebun" is apparently a transliteration of the Japanese word for "Eleven", and was only used in promos and the such. From what I've heard, he's only referred to as "the Luminary" in DQXI, and as such, should be referred to as that here. Arqade (Talk) 21:10, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

Then why is he referred to as "Irebun" on the DQ Wiki? I know SmashWiki does its own thing, but we need a foundation for it. Like with Leaf, do more people refer to him as "Irebun" or "Luminary"? Wolff (talk) 21:13, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

I honestly don't entirely know for sure. I'm not really a DQ fan (although I have dabbled a tiny bit with the first and third game) so I'm just going off what I've heard from others here on SmashWiki. Arqade (Talk) 21:16, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

We need to find some consistency before we start edit conflicts on the pages. With Leaf, SmashWiki uses "Leaf" over "Green/Blue" as that is what she is more community known as by the community. People on Bulbapedia are still discussing that character's name because of Let's Go. Despite them using both "Leaf" and "Green/Blue", we use "Leaf" for the reason stated before, as well as there is no official confirmation that the two are one and the same. In Joker's case, he is a character that can be named and has had two official names. Ren, and Akira, both of which people in the Persona community use frequently. However, Akira was only used in the manga adaptation of Persona 5, while Ren is used in all of Joker's video game appearances outside of the game Persona 5. Until we have more, knowledgeable Dragon Quest users, we should use the Dragon Quest wiki has a placeholder, at least for now. Wolff (talk) 21:24, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

Sounds good to me. Arqade (Talk) 21:26, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

Alright. Wolff (talk) 21:29, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

I say that we put the names that there are mostly commonly known by kinda like what Wolff mentioned. Every DQ protagonist in this game (except the one from II) is or was simply called "Hero" 勇者 or 主人公 in Japanese. Even Erdrick (Loto), the most iconic DQ character is called "勇者/主人公" until he beats the final boss. However, as you can probably tell nobody calls him that anymore and instead all of the DQ community refers to him as Erdrick. I'd say, if the characters have an official name, or are commonly referred to by another name (The Luminary/Luminary for example, even the English promotional works use this name) just use them, and only use "Hero" or "The Hero" if speaking broadly. WolfBloodSpam (talk) 22:02, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

We need more opinions on the matter. It'd probably be easier is more fans of DQ, or at least ones of DQXI were helping. Irebun apparently has been used on the Dragon Quest Wiki since 2017. Wolff (talk) 22:46, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

Big DQ fan here, The heroes from Dragon Quest don't have definitive canon names. At all. "Eleven" is a name used generically as a placeholder in marketing screenshots, but for the most part, and most of the time, they're just referred to in generic terms or titles. Here's what they're generally called:

• Dragon Quest XI: The Hero is given the title of "The Luminary" most of the time. "Eleven" is a name used in most of the marketing media and stuff, and while it's the closest thing to a default name he has, like I said, there aren't definitive canon names for any of them.
• Dragon Quest III: Referred to as the "Legendary Hero" in crossovers. Has no actual definitive default name. "Arus" is used in a lot of promo material and "Arel" is used in the novelization, but neither are considered his actual canon name. "Erdrick" is a title given to him, but he's literally never been called "Erdrick" any time he's actually appeared in person, it's usually only used long after he's presumably died and has become a mythical figure at that point, and generally shouldn't be used as a name for him on Wiki articles.
• Dragon Quest IV: Usually referred to generically as the "Zenithian Hero", but that's not really used much. "Solo" is used in crossovers, and is his default name, but again, isn't treated as definitively canon unlike protagonists like Cloud or something. Usually just referred to as the hero of DQ4.
• Dragon Quest VIII: Doesn't really have a title. "Eight" is used similarly to "Eleven" as a placeholder name in a lot of promo material, and has been used for him in crossover spin-offs, but again, not really a definitive name.

I hope this clears things up a little, I think the article should be changed to not refer to the heroes with specific names since none are used to refer to them much, or at least change Erdrick at the very least. Also "Irebun" is not and has never been a name used to refer to the Hero in English, it's just a reading of the Japanese pronunciation of "Eleven" in English. If that's been used on the DQ wiki, that needs fixed ASAP since that's not his name at all. BubbleRevolution (talk) 22:54, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

Perhaps it would be more beneficial to leave the names alone until he is released. Hero is going to have a Spirit from Classic mode. Other characters with alts, Cloud, Bayo, Joker, and ones with alt characters, Olimar, Bowser Jr., all have separate Spirits. Assuming Hero will follow suit, the Spirits will name the alts, if not just "Hero (#)". Wolff (talk) 23:04, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

Hi. Also a big DQ fan. I would like to just say that Solo is used in the core games. Specifically it is used in the DS remake of Dragon Quest VI. In the post-game dungeon/village, past Dragon Quest characters will appear, including the Hero and Heroine of Dragon Quest IV, who are named Solo and Sophia, respectively. Since this name is used in a core title, it's probably the closest thing to a "canon" name for the Zenithian hero. Anyway, I thought I'd add my anonymous two cents. 71.232.97.2 23:36, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

I think even if the Spirits come out and they called them "Hero (#)" we should keep the names somewhat. To me, referring them as "Hero (DQ XI) or Hero (DQ III) every time will get receptive and confusing for people who aren't familiar with the series. WolfBloodSpam (talk) 23:44, June 11, 2019 (EDT)

I suppose that could be confusing. The Dragon Quest wiki says on their info boxes that III's is titled "Erdrick ", IV's is named "Solo", VIII's is named "Eight", and XI's is "Irebun". At the top of their info boxes, they are referred to as Hero/Heroine, except for XI who has Luminary. Luminary is used as the same word as Hero in the paragraphs, meaning its not used as their name. Wolff (talk) 00:03, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Those aren't their names, though. Not officially, anyway. The DQ wikia isn't always managed super well either, so there's a fair amount of clutter and outdated info. Also, "Irebun" has never been used, you're reading the romaji pronunciation of "Eleven". Saying Hero (insert game number here) isn't that confusing. The spirits are going to be direct sources pertaining to Smash, so the names there should be used before placeholder names that aren't definitively official. BubbleRevolution (talk) 01:10, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

I think it's worth noting that the NIWA has its own Dragon Quest wiki, which, at the time of this writing, is down - once it gets back up, I will check to see what it says, since, in previous experiences, the NIWA is more trustworthy of a source than Fandom/Wikia. Aidan, the Rurouni 00:17, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Why not just look at official footage of the game Dragon Quest 11 in English from Square Enix or Nintendo? In all that footage the hero for Dragon Quest 11's name is Eleven. Not Irebun. Eleven. It's pretty clear. Also in game, he is referred to as The Luminary. Either of those 2 are more canon than Irebun. --70.32.0.121 00:24, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

As per Aidan's suggestion, we should wait until NIWA Dragon Quest wiki is back up, and see if the names differ. How coincidental that the DQ wiki happened go down after the reveal. It's kind of funny. Like in hindsight when Joker was released. Wolff (talk) 00:31, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

How is an outdated wiki (both DQ wikis are outdated btw) more credible than official game footage from both Nintendo and Square Enix? Both Nintendo and Square Enix call him Eleven. --70.32.0.104 00:38, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

How do you know that it's outdated if we can't accesses it right now? For all we know, it could have gone down due to an overload of edits or something. We will compare both of Nintendo's videos, as well as any discussions on the Wiki regarding the names of the Heroes. It's possible it has some information in relation that we don't have. Plus, until a game comes out, names used in trailers are considered placeholder. Wolff (talk) 00:58, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Just a heads up, you shouldn't really take other wikis as gospel. I've contributed to the DQ wiki, and like any wiki, there's gonna be an amount of erroneous info because it's all user-contributed. Official sources should be used first and foremost, and in most official sources, they're just called "Hero" or by a generic title. BubbleRevolution (talk) 01:10, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

I know it's outdated because I've browsed it before it went down. The dragon quest wikis that currently exist are not good sources of info. The suggestion that there was a mass rush to update the entire wiki instead of just an increase in traffic due to the announcement is absurd. You're exactly right in that the names used in the trailers are placeholders because the heroes do not have canon names besides 4's protagonist. It's just that the community uses these names to refer to these characters because they don't have canon names and it's a lot easier than saying "the protagonist of X." If you want to use the names that are used most commonly by the community, use Eleven, Erdrick, Solo, and Eight. --68.97.103.59 01:12, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

We are only using them because we don't really have much else to use, outdated or not. Is it possible for you to explain why the fanon DQ wiki has been using "Irebun" for DQXI's hero since 2017? Wolff (talk) 01:17, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Whoever wrote out the romaji for イレブン on that wiki decided to literally transliterate it as Irebun, instead of writing it as the english word Eleven, for whatever reason. Even if you refuse to take into account official sources or community consensus, if you look at the actual wiki page, you'll find that it's inconsistent in how it refers to the protagonist of DQXI and that there's no reason to choose Irebun. The article is titled "Hero (Dragon Quest XI)" and the actual page refers to him as "The Luminary." The only place on the page that says "Irebun" is for the romaji of the japanese name, which isn't even correct. イレブン is his Japanese name as much as Eleven is his english name. Both are used in the same contexts in promotional material and by the community. --68.97.103.59 01:24, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

...I'm confused why this argument is happening? Wasn't it started with "geez wish we had a DQ fan around"? We have two now and both are telling us straight-up that there is no official name nor commonly used name. Whether you like it or not, that's the answer you asked for. It's time to switch it to just say what game they're from. TheNuttyOne 01:27, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

If you really do care, though, NIWA DQ wiki is back up. It calls all four heroes just "Hero" most of the time, but occasionally switches it out for Luminary in the case of XI, Erdrick for III, and states that Solo is the default name for IV. Still, I would trust our local experts over a wiki. TheNuttyOne 01:31, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Even I'll admit this is getting ridiculous. Any wiki is imperfect - even we admit that ourselves - so it shouldn't be taken as "this and only this". If "Eleven" is what is being used in the same vein as "Eight", regardless of whether or not it's "unofficially, but commonly accepted" or "officially by both Nintendo and Square", then that is what we shall use. Aidan, the Rurouni 01:36, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Thinking about it, is it really necessary to use their "names" outside of their Origin section? Would we have more consistency if we used their Roman Numerals anywhere else? I could be wrong though. Wolff (talk) 01:40, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Yeah, just using the numerals would be more accurate I feel. I think mentioning the default/promotional names (Erdrick should specifically be mentioned as a title, in every crossover he's been in he's only been called "Legendary Hero") in the origin section would be more fitting unless they're referred to as such in Smash. BubbleRevolution (talk) 01:44, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

That's also assuming that they all will share one "Character Page", despite technically being different people entirely. Wolff (talk) 01:42, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Wouldn't that create a consistency? Alph, Koopalings? Actually, I guess it could work like the Koopalings. Wolff (talk) 01:49, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Maybe we shouldn't name them at all if we can't find a canon name for them, just refer them by their game of origin. -- Pancham (talk • contributions) 08:27, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Dedicated pages for alternate costumes are only created if they are different characters and the fighter's name is changed accordingly. This is why Alph and the Koopalings have pages, but Leaf doesn't. Creating a page for each Hero would create an inconsistency. Nokii — 10:29, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

So what's going to happen then? The past few hours I've seen the page a ridiculous amount of times. Is this page going with numbers or sticking with promotional names and titles? Is it normal for there to be so much of a back and forth? User: Castiglione 5:37 PM, June 12, 2019

I don't think they need to be named since they use generic name in Smash, just mention it and redirection, as we did with the Persona protagonist.--Capstalker (talk) 12:46, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

Regarding names

Heya folks, following up on Aidanzapunk's invitation to join the discussion. Officially, Erdrick, Solo, and Luminary are used to refer to III, IV, and XI's heroes respectively--Erdrick is actually a title that refers to multiple characters but has been associated with that particular hero since the late 80's and that's not going to change any time soon. As pointed out by an anonymous editor above, IV's hero has been referred to as Solo/Sofia in the remake of VI on top of crossover promotional material. "Irebun" is just a transliteration of Eleven as stated above, and isn't even from a manga or anything as they are all referred to as numbers at some point in manual screenshots and so forth. He's been dubbed the Luminary in just about every piece of promotional material available thus far.

The only one who truly lacks any agreed upon nickname is the hero of VIII, who has been referred to as The Guv by his party members in the game (most often by Yangus), and occasionally as Trodain by fans, which is based on the kingdom he hails from as well as the fandom's tendency to use hometown's in lieu of actual names when they are unavailable.

Personally, I would use the titles and names that have been used in the fandom for decades in regards to the older characters, Luminary for XI's hero, and Eight or Trodain for man rocking the bandanna until nintendo releases official descriptors. These just roll off the tough more easily than having to say "the hero from DQ IV" over and over in my opinion. (Follower of Light (talk) 16:50, June 12, 2019 (EDT))

I agree with this. It seems unanimous hat we should use Erdrick and Solo. Since Luminary is the character’s title, and Irebun is just eleven in Japanese, we should stick with Luminary. As for Eight, I prefer not using the numbers unless that’s his actual name. We should use he fans’ names, so it should probably be Luminary, Erdrick, Solo, and Trodian. Lou Cena (talk) 17:01, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

If Guv, Trodain, and Luminary are indeed what the majority of the DQ community uses, then I do not see a problem with that, as it is same reason the female Pokemon Trainer is referred to as Leaf on here, its what the majority of the Pokemon community uses to refer to that specific design. Wolff (talk) 16:59, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

I think that, if the most agreed upon name is "Guv" (note the use of "occasionally" with Trodain), then that is what shall be used. No NIWA wiki is official (to my knowledge, anyway), and using fanmade terms is not something we're new to. Aidan, the Rurouni 17:19, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

DQ fan here again to step in with some insight into the community. I've never heard anyone call Eight "Guv" or "Trodain." The only person who calls him Guv is the character Yangus in the game. In the game, Eight is a soldier of the kingdom of Trodain, but no one calls him Trodain in the game and I've never heard anyone in the community call him Trodain instead of Eight. The only name that people call him is Eight. The name Eight has even been semi-officially used in the japanese-only spinoff card game Dragon Quest Rivals. He is a card in the game and he's referred to as Eight. As for my thoughts on DQXI's hero, he is mostly referred to by Eleven by the community. The Luminary is a title he's given in the game but it's less commonly used by the community unless they're trying to be official and only use what's used in the game, which is probably why the wiki uses The Luminary. If you want to stick closer to the game's official canon, use The Luminary, but if you want to use what the community says, use Eleven.--68.97.103.59 18:21, June 12, 2019 (EDT)

As for Eleven, if "Luminary" is also used as such (most popularly used name), then we shall go with that too. Aidan, the Rurouni 17:22, June 12, 2019 (EDT)