User:DrakRoar/SSBU tumble hitstun

Note before reading: this page refers to this hitstun, and not hitlag which Nintendo thought was a brilliant idea to name hitstun.

It's already known that tumble hitstun has been decreased in Ultimate, but there's still no way to exactly determine it. The formula Ruben originally posted ended up being wrong, based on in-game testing from several people, and the real formula hasn't been found ever since, likely because it now seems to correlate to the also-undetermined balloon knockback.

For reference, and to have an idea of how much overall hitstun moves inflict in Ultimate at tumble percents while the formula is not discovered yet, I've made a table for the hitstun caused by Mario's up aerial (which has the same knockback as in Smash 4) on Marth (because he doesn't get the gravity boost) at various percents, and compared it to the hitstun it would cause in Smash 4, starting from where it first causes tumble and ending at the closest percent right before it KOs. The hitstun cancel windows for air dodging and aerials are included as well.

Target's percent	Knockback	Smash 4			Ultimate
		Standard	Airdodge	Aerial	Standard	Airdodge	Aerial
45%	80.853684	32			31
47%	82.644211	33			32
50%	85.33	34			32
53%	88.015789	35			33
56%	90.701579	36			33
59%	93.387368	37			34
61%	95.177895	38			34
64%	97.863684	39			34
67%	100.549474	40			35
70%	103.235263	41	40	41	35
72%	105.025789	42	40	42	36
75%	107.711579	43	40	43	36
78%	110.397368	44	40	44	37
81%	113.083158	45	40	45	37
83%	114.873684	46	40	45	37
86%	117.559474	47	40	45	37
89%	120.245263	48	40	45	38
92%	122.931053	49	40	45	38
95%	125.616842	50	40	45	38
98%	128.302632	51	40	45	39
100%	130.093158	52	40	45	39
117%	145.312632	58	40	47	41	40	41
126%	153.37	62	42	52	42	40	42
150%	174.856316	69	54	64	45	40	45
175%	197.237895	78	68	77	48	40	48

Conclusion

Hitstun decreases more compared to Smash 4 the higher the knockback inflicted is. This seems to be done not to intentionally worsen combos, but as a result of the balloon knockback (faster initial launch speed and decay as knockback increases); characters would be forced to fall for too long at high knockback values if hitstun was unchanged. Particularly harsh reductions also only happen at knockback where it's nearly impossible to combo characters either way, since they are sent too far; in other cases, the reduction is by only a few frames with hitstun canceling taken into account, which are easily compensated by characters' faster movement speeds (horizontal mobility, jumpsquat, and jump rising speed), lower landing lag, and decreased ending lag on some crucial combo moves.

Overall, while hitstun is lower, combos in Ultimate are not worse than in Smash 4; if anything, the severe nerfs to air dodges and increased overall damage (due to the 1v1 multiplier) grant more opportunities to set them up, and higher reward for doing so.