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Growth Psynergy item

Hey Aidan, there was a minor item leak during the trailer for the Smash Ultimate and Wendy's College Tailgate Tour video, so I'll provide a link below. The item, which is something resembling the Growth Psynergy item from Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, appears near 0:27, by the way.

[1]

Sonic, the Speedy Spookable 21:34, 25 October 2018 (EDT)

So that's what all this fuss is about. Let me guess: you think this should go on the rumors page? I'll get to it in a couple hours or so. Aidan, the Spooky Rurouni 08:09, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

Picture rename

About the Banjo picture rename, sure, I really don't have anything creative to call it. Sonic, the Speedy Spookable 21:15, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

Kirby's Crouch

According to my friends who play Melee all the time, Kirby doesn't make any noise when he goes in and out of crouch in Melee. This would make the point you undid on the Brawl Kirby page worthy of being put in the "changes" section, no? In fairness though I don't know if it makes a sound in Smash 64.

Lastly, if you're right, that little bit of info ought to be on the main Kirby page rather than specifically on his Brawl page, since it's true for Smash 4 too. John HUAH! 15:00, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

I was unsure if it was in Melee (or 64), but if it isn't there, then it's not there. But, to be quite frank, it wouldn't be that notable, since taking sound effects from home games isn't always noted (the Poké Ball item has it noted because it was changed in Smash and then Pokémon). Aidan, the Yatterman 15:13, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

So are you saying the trivia bit should be cut entirely? I think that the fact that a sound effect plays where it once did is notable enough to be placed in the "changes" section. John HUAH! 18:16, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

Definitely not as a trivia point, but a change could be noted. Aidan, the Yatterman 18:21, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

Ahhh okay, I was a bit confused since in your summary it said you undid my edit, when in fact you simply removed it. So should it be re-added? John HUAH! 18:29, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

That might've been my intention, but given what we've discussed, I think it can be justified as a change for Brawl. Aidan, the Yatterman 18:39, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

Music (SSBU)

I tried putting in collapsible sections for each universe's music selection, but whenever I put it on the Mega Man section, it makes the Pac-Man through Namco sections disappear and only reappear when showing the Mega Man music. Do you think you could help me? Sonic, the Speedy Spookable 15:39, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

To be completely honest, I'm not sure; it works for others (even ones after Mega Man, like Pac-Man), but solely not on Mega Man. Aidan, the Yatterman 17:46, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

Replicate the issue and save it. I'll look into it. Serpent  King 17:48, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

Galeem's name

"Kirakira" (キラキラ) is the Japanese sound effect/onomatopoeia for "shine," "sparkle," or "twinkle." Galeem's Japanese name is Kiira (キーラ), a sort of elongated corruption of that, while his English name is an elongated corruption of the related word "gleam". Given this obvious connection in both languages with the whole "light" motif, I think we should appropriately capture the significance of the Japanese name in the article. SuperFalconBros (talk) 15:11, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

I'm going to argue against that, since Japanese names aren't their meaning, unless it's a specific word. Aidan, the Yatterman 16:05, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

I'm not sure what you mean by that. キーラ is not an actual Japanese name, or a real word at all. Just like Galeem, it's a corruption of a word for a sparkle of light. This is the same situation with タブー (Tabuu), except it had to be localized this time. SuperFalconBros (talk) 17:29, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

Well, the name Kira has been localized as "Kira" before (and I actually had no idea that it was that onomatopoeia for shining so I guess that fits but I digress), so I don't think it's supposed to be anything but Kira. Aidan, the Yatterman 17:36, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

Light's name in Death Note is キラ (Kira), not キーラ (Kiira). And while some languages are indeed localizing Galeem's name as some form of "Kira" (German and Korean, for example), I think the ones that aren't are very telling. Consider the Spanish, "Lúmina" (not sure what Spanish word this is closest to, but it's obviously related to "luminous" and "illumination"), and Russian, "Сиян" ("Siyan," where the Russian for "shine" is "сияние" or "siyaniye"). SuperFalconBros (talk) 17:49, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

But the point I'm trying to make is that that is the name. It's not trying to be something else; Kīra is the name. Aidan, the Yatterman 19:08, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

(indent) Okay, I agree with that and I'm not looking to change the romanization, just make sure that we adequately note the connection of the name in the article. SuperFalconBros (talk) 19:28, 1 November 2018 (EDT)

Someone keeps putting the Vergeben stuff on the leaks page.

I've been following the Vergeben stuff for a while. Even when the guy leaked the Ninja Turtles for Injustice 2. Shouldn't the Vergeben leaks be put in the rumors page until all the claims are real. There's an IP that's messing up the page adding the Vergeben leaks to the Leak page. He keeps coming back to put Vergeben's leaks on the page despite it not being 100% real at the moment. I think we need the page protected for this situation.

On a side note, I missed the RFA debate and I'm a bit late on this but Congratulations on being promoted to an admin. You definitely deserved it. Even with Emmett coming out of retirement, this adminship is definitely a good accomplishment for you in the year of 2018. Falcon-X (Freedom House) 10:48, 2 November 2018 (EDT)

I'm actually quite busy at the moment (on tour with college choir until 5 PM CT), but the least I can do is protect the page right now. (Also, thanks.) Aidan, the Yatterman 14:25, 2 November 2018 (EDT)

Discussion

Hello Aidanzapunk. I was wondering if I could discuss some things regarding the wiki with you, would that be alright? (We can do it on my talk page if you'd prefer that.) Wolff (talk) 20:03, 2 November 2018 (EDT)

Such as what? (We can do it here, I'm fine with that.) Aidan, the Yatterman 20:23, 2 November 2018 (EDT)

One of the things I'm curious about is the "Character Descriptions" for fighters and any "Origin" pages. Particularly the picture(s), if any. For example, what would the requirement be if I wanted to add it to a fighter's description if it did not have one already? And same goes for origins. As well as updating the art for a page's Infobox. Wolff (talk) 20:36, November 2, 2018‎ (EDT)

If you want my opinion:

1. A character's infobox should have their official/most recent (or most recent) artwork.
2. A character's description should have no images. (I say this because I've noticed some instances of this happening.)
3. A character's game-specific section (i.e., "In Super Smash Bros. Ultimate") should have their artwork from that game.

Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 20:55, 2 November 2018 (EDT)

From what I understood before, I've seen that the "Character descriptions" are mainly associated with playable characters, such as Mario, Link, Zelda, or Samus. They tend to show what their Smash appearances appear to be based on (if it differs from their current design). I've also seen the "Origins" tend to be associated with anything other than a playable character and shows how they/it originally appeared, again, if it differs. With infoboxes, it again appears to be whatever their design in Smash is based upon. For example, Lyn in Smash does not have the design details she does in Fire Emblem Heroes. Or how Chain Chomp's most recent appearances are Odyssey and Aces, but its art from either of those games are not used as they do not include the chain for Odyssey's or that Chain Chomp does not use a racket in Smash.

Going by what you said, are the Fighters suppose to have their Descriptions separate from their Origins (which almost all currently do not have), like the stages? Also, are the infoboxes suppose to have their most recent non-Smash appearance, regardless if it is what their most recent Smash appearance is based on? (Zelda uses her LBW art in her infobox instead of BotW for example) Looking at Chespin, I only see a non Smash picture in its Origin. Are the Origins not suppose to have images at all, regardless if it is to show their appearance from the game of origin? Wolff (talk) 21:21, 2 November 2018 (EDT)

What are your thoughts with those in mind? Do your previous statements change? Wolff (talk) 21:03, 3 November 2018 (EDT)

Character descriptions are not exclusive to playable characters - they are generally for any major character (as in, anyone who has a descriptive page) that isn't a Smash-original. Character artwork does have basis on a character's appearance in Smash, but if a character's most recent artwork matches that, then it's (traditionally) updated to that. There should be no other extraneous artwork from the origin games, unless more than one design is used for a character in the series. Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 01:01, 4 November 2018 (EDT)

1. If Zelda's most recent appearance is Breath of the Wild, should she have her BotW art for her info box, or should she have her A Link Between Worlds art as that is what her appearance in Ultimate is partly based on?
2. And what about non-fighter Origin (Character description) pages? (It seems to differ on pages, major or not) Should it have the art and/or sprite of the character/item from the original appearance, regardless if it resembles their latest appearance in Smash?

1. I misworded my earlier comment in reference to Ganondorf; Zelda's artwork should be ALBW, since that is what her appearance is based on. I meant to say that, but ended up repeating my words instead.
2. Character description sections should not have art or sprites.

Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 23:07, 4 November 2018 (EST)

Okay, their original art basis for their current Smash appearance in the info box does makes sense.

But wait, are the pages suppose to have a Character Description and an Origin page, or just one of them? They currently seem really similar. Link, Pikachu, and Robin have a Character Description that contains pictures of their first appearance in Smash, and a more recent art for their info boxes. However, PK Starstorm, Lip's Stick, and Phosphora have Origin pages that have a picture of their original appearance from their game, which again is different from the art in their info boxes. 'Character Description', to me, seems like its suppose to be a brief summery of who the character is. And from what I understand from an Origin page, it contains additional information of what the non-Smash related character/thing came from as well as visual reference if it looks or acts differently from its source in Smash.

Basically what I'm asking is:

1. What is the difference between a page's Character Description and a page's Origin?
2. Are they suppose to have one or the other, or both?
3. What is suppose to be contained within them? (Such as any information and pictures)
4. And is the Character Description and/or Origin suppose to be the first paragraph on the page, or closer to the bottom?

Wolff (talk) 01:30, 5 November 2018 (EST)

1. There is no difference.
2. There's really only supposed to be one, but just so there's no confusion: if it's a character, then it gets character description. If it's not a character, it gets an origin.
3. A. For characters, they have information about the character themselves (regardless of playability). If the character has had more than one design in Smash (with each coming from a different game the character is in), then the other design used goes in there. For example: Ike is based on his Path of Radiance appearance by default, so that image goes in his infobox; because he has Radiant Dawn as an outfit (and as his appearance in Smash 4), that goes in his character description.

   B. For moves, they have origins describing how they work in/relate to their game of origin. There can be images here.

   C. For stages, they have origins describing what they are, and how they relate to their game of origin. There can also be images here.

4. It usually is at the top, but that's rather inconsistent throughout the wiki.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion. Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 10:47, 5 November 2018 (EST)

Its starting to. I still have a few questions.

1. Do non-human creatures/characters get a Character Description? Like enemies like Goomba, Pokemon like Eevee, or non-human like Wispy Woods? (Some characters like the Donkey Kong characters have creature descriptions, which I think makes it inconsistent) And non sentient things like items or moves get origins?
2. In the case of Robin and Chespin, since their current designs is visually the same as the game they originated, do the really need a picture for their descriptions (same goes for Pokemon from Gen 3 onwards and the Kid Icarus Uprising enemies?
3. If characters have a gender change, should the art of it be included in the description or gallery?
4. In the case for gen 1 Pokemon like Charmander, and gen 2 Pokemon Bellossom, their current artwork differs slightly from their originals. Would they get their original for their descriptions? (Same with Gen and 2 sprites, some only vaguely resemble their original art. If so, should it have the sprites as well, or instead?
5. Are Character Descriptions and Origins *suppose* to be at the top of the page?
6. What about Trivia? Is trivia suppose to be before or after the Gallery?

(Sorry for all the questions. I just want clarification to make sure I understand correctly) Wolff (talk) 11:39, 5 November 2018 (EST)

1. From what I understand, they get the similarly named "Creature description".
2. If their artwork is being used in the infobox, then they do not need images in their character description section. (To be quite frank with you, your upload of the Chespin gif was confusing to me, as it made no sense as to why it should be there.)
3. Most recent artwork (i.e., FRLG or HGSS) takes priority. There should be no sprites on this wiki (unless we absolutely have to).
4. It's more of an unwritten rule kind of thing; there's no specifics, but people just do it the same way for consistency.
5. After.

Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 12:10, 5 November 2018 (EST)

1. So in the case of Pokemon, only artwork in the description if available? (as in, gen 3 onwards do not get their sprites included? Like Chespin? Models sometimes count as in game "sprites")
2. In that case, what about the Kid Icarus Uprising enemy origins? Like Mimicutie. Should they include an in game screen shot?
3. What about an game screenshots (where they are shown as sprites) for origin, like in the case for PK Starstorm, Starfy and Lip's Stick?
4. I was always under the impression gallery was suppose to be last as it feels/looks like the end of the page. (Most of my friends never have seen or knew about the trivia as they also thought the gallery meant the end) Most other wikis I see tend to have it last, and or in a separate page as the amount would clutter the page otherwise.
5. Would a stage's Overview or Origin go first?
6. Speaking of stages, should the Reset Bomb Forest have its idol in the page. What the outside of the Forest looks like doesn't seem to be present in Smash?

Wolff (talk) 13:35, 5 November 2018 (EST)

(Reset indent)

1. What I said was artwork goes in the infobox. Nothing in the origin section.
2. Enemies do have images.
3. If a game is sprite-based, then they appear in images. What I meant by "no sprites" was sprite rips.
4. Yes, and we're not other wikis.
5. Overview. Describe it first, and then say what it's all about.
6. The idol has no place on the page, as we already have an image about the chapter (which is related to the stage more than the Reset Bomb itself).

If I may be so bold as to say, it seems as though you are needlessly asking questions because you don't like the answers I'm giving. Forgive me if I'm making that assumption too quickly, but that is the vibe you are giving off; I am answering your questions, yet you ask them again and again. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to answer questions, but, as I said, I already have. If you want a short and simple answer, here it is: there are no official "layout" rules that can be followed when organizing a page (though there are unwritten ones that people don't argue against), but SmashWiki also isn't all about the images. Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 16:37, 5 November 2018 (EST)

I apologize. Its not that I do not like the answers, its that I did not completely understand them. So I asked for clarification.

Because the descriptions/origins were at the top of the fighter, stage, and Final Smash pages (and a few miscellaneous pages), I figured most pages (at least with characters like Assist Trophies) were suppose to have that go to the top as well. Some people (IPs, and red and blue texted users) undid them saying that origins/descriptions went at the bottom before the gallery. It did not make sense to me why (with my reasoning), but considering they "undid" my edit (and the rules regarding "undos") I left it alone. I also tried updating the info box art, as well as origin art to a few pages.

However, a few edits I made regarding what I understood and learned about adding images in the descriptions/origins seemed to have annoyed Miles (talk) to the point where he told me to ask in a discussion/talk page beforehand or he'll consider banning me if I continued with my mistakes. I tried to talk to him on his talk page so I could learn how to properly add art and such (some I asked you), but he still has yet to respond to the message I left on his talk page on the 29th of October. I figured it mainly had to do with the fact that he's a Semi-active administrator.

The reason why I asked so meany similar questions is that I felt unsure of my understanding of some of your answers (or it contradicted with the reasoning given by the IPs, and red and blue texted users), Miles (talk) also said to ask in a discussion/talk page if I was even 1% unsure. I just wanted more clarification so I would cause anymore trouble (at least according to Miles (talk))

I just wanted to help with the Wiki with stuff I thought I could, like organization, trivia, and images. I'm no good with technical or competitive game play. If asking you questions and then clarification annoys you, then I'll stop asking (and annoying) you. Again, I apologize. Wolff (talk) 17:39, 5 November 2018 (EST)

Greninja's Final Smash.

It's not in the video you gave me earlier. What proves Greninja's Final Smash is the same? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 14:11, 3 November 2018 (EDT)

An edit that isn't mine. Should probably note that you have to slow down the video to pause it, as they kinda skip over Greninja, but it is, in fact, the same move. Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 14:12, 3 November 2018 (EDT)

Uh, I can't read Japanese. ;_; ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 14:14, 3 November 2018 (EDT)

That's not the important part. Look at the picture. Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 14:19, 3 November 2018 (EDT)

Neutral Point of View

So I've seen 35.136.168.227 (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log · WHOIS) consistently make non-neutral point of views in edit summaries, as seen here and here, and even warned him about it. However, now I'm not too sure if it's really against our policies, since there's nothing that explicitly states that a neutral point of view is required in edit summaries unless you count Help:Edit summary. I was wondering if there's any rule about this, or I'm just overthinking. SugarCookie420 (talk) 09:30, 11 November 2018 (EST)

I think you're just overthinking it. The whole thing about a neutral tone can be summed up like this: you can have an opinion, just don't put it into a mainspace article. For example, I could tell you right here that I think that Daisy as an Echo of Peach seems kind of lazy and that she should have more unique moves (and I do think that), but if I were to put that into her fighter article, it'd be taken down immediately, and people would look at me funny seeing as how I'm an admin. Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 10:49, 11 November 2018 (EST)

I know you're not asking me but I don't think there's any rule against having opinionated edit summaries. So long as those summaries aren't blatantly offensive or breaking some other rule, they should be fine, I think. John HUAH! 12:10, 11 November 2018 (EST)

A Little Help

Sorry for the recent spam, but I uploaded a new photo of Sol for his page, replacing the previous picture. However, this just causes an odd formatting error on my screen. Can you please fix it? SugarCookie420 (talk) 18:53, 12 November 2018 (EST)

If the error is what I think you're getting, press ctrl + Shift + R. (Or, if you're on a Mac, command + Shift + R. If you're on mobile, give the cache a few days to catch up.) Aidan, the Thankful Rurouni 19:02, 12 November 2018 (EST)

That's funny, right after you posted, it corrected itself. Thanks though. SugarCookie420 (talk) 19:12, 12 November 2018 (EST)

Disambiguation Pages

Remember the discussion if Charmader's page should have been deleted or not? Well, another discussion started regarding Disambiguation pages. It is very similar to the conversation with Charmader, just regarding other characters redirecting to disambiguation pages. I was wondering, since you contributed to the talk on Charmander, if you could chime in on this one? The main argument is if "Disambiguations for single subjects should be full pages". Wolff (talk) 23:28, 23 November 2018 (EST)

When smash comes out

Can we take down the countdown

I missed my sig oops Sammybambam11 (talk) 21:13, 6 December 2018 (EST)

Not Aidan, but first off, new talk page subjects go at the bottom of the page, not top. Second, it will happen, just not immediately. Just have patience. Sonic, the Cheerful Speedster 21:19, 6 December 2018 (EST)

An edit war

This user has reverted edits on Alternate costume (SSBU) after being told to stop multiple times, even by me, he went in and reverted the edit. I think the protection of the page and/or a block is in order. Corrin Fan 21:20, 11 December 2018 (EST)

I'm fully aware of the situation, and plan on acting accordingly based on what happens next. Aidan, the Festive Rurouni 21:22, 11 December 2018 (EST)

Speaking of Ultimate alternate costumes, is there any rule on how long a talk section can be? Because I was wondering how we should archive this, since the whole talk page is closing towards 75,000 bytes and the Incineroar section itself is probably around 30,000 bytes. SugarCookie420 (talk) 22:20, 12 December 2018 (EST)

There's no particular regulation, per se, but it should probably be archived when discussion has ceased. Aidan, the Festive Rurouni 00:19, 13 December 2018 (EST)

Alright, so I believe both have stopped debating over the issue, although there is still some other feedback from other people. Is it a good time to archive now? SugarCookie420 (talk) 22:30, 15 December 2018 (EST)

If discussion has died down, then yes, now would be a good time before things start up again. Aidan, the Festive Rurouni 22:41, 15 December 2018 (EST)

Ultimate competitive play

I understand that it's still too early to list competitive play for fighters, but can we at least just hide the section? There's nothing particularly wrong with it, and they are significant results. SugarCookie420 (talk) 21:22, 27 December 2018 (EST)

Literally just read your new edit, and I do kind of understand, however I mostly listed major results, so I believe that, if we just remove them, they'll just be readded later. SugarCookie420 (talk) 21:24, 27 December 2018 (EST)

Putting aside my personal distaste for the competitive Smash scene (*glares at Salem and Leffen*), I am very much against mentioning anything to do with the Ultimate competitive scene at this point. The game hasn't been out for a full month yet, not counting it getting leaked two weeks prior to launch, and the meta has not developed enough for legitimate, significant results - there exist plenty of people within the community complaining how the newcomers are "broken" and "need to be nerfed", and I'd rather not claim something and then have to take it back later. Aidan, the Festive Rurouni 21:26, 27 December 2018 (EST)

Alright, so when should we start adding tournament results? I feel like after Genesis 6 is the best, since that's the first Ultimate supermajor, and it's about 2 months after release. SugarCookie420 (talk) 21:33, 27 December 2018 (EST)

While I will say I'm the wrong tree to bark up, I think that that's a reasonable guesstimate to make. Aidan, the Festive Rurouni 21:34, 27 December 2018 (EST)

Should we mention which Pokemon/Assist Trophies can appear in the stages?

I asked Disaster Flare ‎over a week ago, but no response.

Anyway, you know how in Ultimate's training mode, you can select which Assist Trophy comes out? Well some of them don't show up on all stages. Is it worth mentioning which ones don't show up on which stage? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 09:00, 28 December 2018 (EST)

Given how that has already seemed to happen, I don't see why there would be an issue with that. Aidan, the Festive Rurouni 10:21, 28 December 2018 (EST)

I feel stupid for asking, but is that a yes or a no? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 10:47, 28 December 2018 (EST)

"I don't see why there would be an issue with [mentioning which ones don't show up on which stage]." (That means yes.) Aidan, the Festive Rurouni 10:50, 28 December 2018 (EST)