Talk:Captain Falcon (SSBM)

Hmm...kewl. Perhaps we can do a little better at Pros and Cons. One-liners really don't evoke the complicated character that Captain Falcon is. I don't know SmashWiki's original research policy, but at least we can use SOME analysis? MaskedMarth 23:35, August 2, 2006 (GMT)

Falcon is a bit of a novelty though, so it's kinda hard to pin his exact nature down even with a full out paragraph. The only character who's high tier and doesn't counter anyone yet is able to win consistently is probably the biggest proof of this. I'd help you with any analysis if you want, but how detailed do you want the info to be?

Well, saying that Falcon "may be the best dashdancer in the game" and has "high power Smashes" and that he "counters no one" (which is an exaggeration that I've probably contributed to, by saying that Falcon is "countered by all of low tier" - but Falcon really does have Bowser's number and does positive in most low-tier battles) really tells us very little about Falcon's advantages and disadvantages.

Better that we cite pros and cons that are specific enough to tell us something about Falcon (Aerial combos or Nair and Uair-based combos), while at the same time being broad enough to have an obvious bearing on the matchup.

If this were the Sheik article, a great pro that would fit both criteria would be "a down throw that is guaranteed to chain throw some characters for stretches of 40 to 50% damage, and can otherwise combo into other launchers like forward tilt." Ding. You know exactly what down throw does, and you also know that it can have a huge bearing on the match, being a comboing machine.

Captain Falcon doesn't have as many juicy aspects, but being a pretty literal character it's not very hard either. For instance, he's a good comboer. But how exactly can he combo? With down throw as a launcher, neutral aerial and up aerial as further continuers and launchers, and the threat of knee as a finisher. Consolidate that into a paragraph, and you have an excellent pro point. Falcon's disadvantages are even easier - fast-falling means he's easily comboed by everyone; a poor up B means he can be edge-guarded very easily, thereby dying at low damage; the lack of a projectile, and his lackluster close game, prevent him from launching a very strong approach (though his speed largely makes up for it). Comprehensive information like this is a lot more useful than "Fastfaller (can be good and bad)." You can't even tell which column it falls under, from that description, and it gives us no idea of HOW falling quickly does good things and bad things. MaskedMarth 23:06, August 3, 2006 (GMT)

I see your point, but I think that those kinds of details are meant mroe for the article than the bullet pointed pros/cons. I felt that what we were supposed to do is to list (as clearly as possible, sorry if I failed on that :( ), the good and the bad of each individual character with concise, short phrases while we spend time elaborating on how the pros and cons mesh together in the character's article. However, I also don't think we should try and make the Smashwiki into a huge faq where we every available combo setups a character has and what percents we deal with. Instead, I think that at the end of every character's profile, we need to add atleast two links: A faq and a video compendium. To me, the wiki should only be a brief reference tool. If a player wishes to know more, we should provide links and let them find out accordingly. --Mr Ng 02:02, August 4, 2006 (GMT)

If we want the pro/con to be a most general, concise listing, then we cut out the evidence and leave the conclusion. No sissy explanation, just say that Captain Falcon combos well and dies fast. It would be quick and usable, and a handy reference if you need to know about how your Captain Falcon game should pan out.

If, on the other hand, you want a reference to Captain Falcon's statistics, then the section loses its value as a pro/con listing, and we should change the header to "statistics" or something of that flavor. MaskedMarth 02:35, August 4, 2006 (GMT)

MaskedMarth, I posted my response at MBM. >_> --Mr Ng 05:44, August 4, 2006 (GMT)

Look, it's just a start, this site is stil in it's infantcy. What you need to realize, however, not everyone who comes to this site is going to understand (or even want to understand) the advanced concepts of the game. If there were only extremely advanced people on this site, there wouldn't be a need for Smash Wiki, right? Right. If you think something needs to be more complex, please be my guest and do it! Just don't forget that basics are important. Oddeven2002 05:53, August 4, 2006 (GMT)

Overview

Great job on the overview Technomancer, but I think we need to add something here regarding Falcon's approach strategies. Falcon's approach game is one of the most crucial parts of playing a good Falcon, and there are a lot of bad habits surrounding it. You'll see a tendency with beginning players to just charge and spam Knees hoping that one will hit or using Raptor boosts at the wrong time or Double jumping into Dairs all over the place. We've got to make sure we tell players what moves are the most useful in approaches, to be more patient to pull off counterattacks after dashdances, and to be ready to jump when the opponent makes a mistake.

I think a super neat thing to do would be to create an options tree. Kinda like, we do each of Falcon's moves, which trees into the possible results, which then trees into options from there, (high-knockback, low-knockback, shielded, whiffed). Some trees would return to other moves (for instance, re-grab and d-air), but some would continue into stuff like Full Jump Uair, etc. The tree could be further refined into specific characters.

Be alot of text, but it would make C.F.s everywhere much better.

I'm doing something at GameFAQs with a similar goal. I've found that way too little attention is given, by guides and the like, to the approach, whether for Captain Falcon or for anybody. This is evidenced in the ownage videos that show flashy combos and kills, and the fact that the Japanese are consistently better than the Americans, not because of "mindgames" but because of a smarter approach. Information on the approach would be invaluable to budding Falcon players. MaskedMarth 02:19, August 5, 2006 (GMT)

the new setup

Wait, I'm confused at what's going on here at the moment.