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Talk:Fox (SSB4): Difference between revisions
→Fox "appears to be nerfed overall"
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:::::Combos don't matter all that much if you can't approach or bait approaches to land them. Good recoveries don't win tournaments. You only lose to Fox if you make a ton of mistakes and give him openings he should never get. He can't create his own openings.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 01:20, 2 January 2015 (EST) | :::::Combos don't matter all that much if you can't approach or bait approaches to land them. Good recoveries don't win tournaments. You only lose to Fox if you make a ton of mistakes and give him openings he should never get. He can't create his own openings.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 01:20, 2 January 2015 (EST) | ||
::::::Fox's approach options are definitely not foolproof, but you're talking like you're a tool assisted computer. There is no clear one-line answer that shuts him down, he is more than capable of mixing up his approaches using his movement options to bait opponents and create his own openings. So what his movement got nerfed, relative to the cast (you brought this up above) he's still one of the fastest characters in the entire game, in horizontal ground speed and the fastest in vertical air speed. Fox has the fastest dash to shield game (shield is up by frame 12), a jab that comes out on frame 2, a u-tilt that comes out on frame 5 which lasts until frame 17 and combos into itself, a long travelling Dash Attack that hits on frame 8 and lasts forever (till frame 19) and pops opponents to combo into U-tilts or aerials, a B-air that is positive on shield and comes out on frame 4 (can be auto-canceled and used to cross up), and the 2nd longest perfect pivot slide (tied with Little Mac's) which gives him a way of mixing up approaches, movement, and baiting opponents. All options he has may have an answer, but none of them are shut down by a one line answer like you claim they are: they all require different answers, no human opponent will react correctly 100% of the time the way you keep implying. If it was so easy to react to Fox's jittery fox-trotting mixed with perfect pivots, if it was so easy to avoid his jab confirms or getting grabbed by the 4th fastest character in the ground, if it was actually as easy as you make it sound to not get baited by Fox, then no one would be using him. But obviously people are using him: Dehf, Nakat, Shofu, TO Joe, and even new rising smashers like Megafox and Wusi from Germany. Last night in Toronto, I witnessed Nakat beat every single Diddy Kong using Fox. Why would he use a character you claim to be "bad" vs the best character in the game? | |||
::::::It baffles me that you think Fox is bad just because he lost the ability to gay out opponents with lasers or gimp them at 20% with shine like he could in previous games. This isn't Melee, and if you try to play him the way you do in that game, of course he's going to suck. You use lasers to force approaches (read again: not bad approaches, just force approaches) and you use shine to reflect (has no lag if you reflect something) or use it to stall and escape juggles. Just because you're trying to play Melee with Fox doesn't mean he's bad though, you're essentially ignoring the other things he got. Look at Side-B, the move has like 10 frames of landing lag if you use it in the air, it no longer puts you helpless which lets you recover or attack out of it, and the hitbox is much stronger in this game as it doesn't trade with things like Peach or Ness N-airs anymore like it did in previous games, they just clash with each other. It's a viable movement, escape and attack option now, and it can even follow up into a U-air or B-air for the KO at high percents. The other buffs he got were in regards to the engine itself, as pivots and the faster physics let him move much more freely than he could in Brawl. If you're not going to believe top players, believe the tournament results we've seen. | |||
::::::I would be happy to settle this in a money match at Apex 2015 next week. My Fox vs whatever character you play in Sm4sh. You are going, right? You're not just saying things in this wiki without having any WiiU tournament experience... right? I'll see you there, my tag is Cozy. | |||
::::::[http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-data-frame-data-get-your-frame-data-here.381142/#post-18113592 Source for frame data] ([[User:DavemanCozy|DavemanCozy]] ([[User talk:DavemanCozy|talk]]) 17:54, 25 January 2015 (EST)) | |||
== Fox's down aerial. == | == Fox's down aerial. == | ||