Talk:Clone/Archive 3: Difference between revisions

Talk:Clone/Archive 3 (view source)

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TheNuttyOne

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 :::Luigi was barely a ''clone'' in SSBB, which makes him a '''''semi-clone.''''' Your second sentence here is a [https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope slippery slope] argument; without presenting evidence that Luigi is different enough from Mario to no longer be classified as a semi-clone (Luigi's up special and neutral special are still semi-cloned, and Luigi's down special originated as a cloned move; the article states that differences in special moves mostly determine clone status, hence for example Captain Falcon in ''Smash 64'' not being considered a "semi-clone" of Samus, even though the two share a down tilt, down smash, up tilt, neutral aerial, and floor attacks), you erroneously conclude that Charizard and Bowser should be considered "semi-clones" because their vast differences/puny similarities (clawing attacks? So was Wolf also a "semi-clone" of Bowser in ''Brawl''?) can somehow be compared to the ones between Mario and Luigi. <font face="X-Files">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 13:22, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
+::::''You're wrong about everything except for the physics, but character physics don't dictate clone status. That said, I do think that ''special move physics'' do, which is why Wolf should be considered a semi-clone of Fox since their sets of specials share an archetype (down B reflector, blaster neutral B, angular up B, flash side B).''
+::::I'm pretty sure Mario and Luigi don't share taunts, victory poses, or (most of their) animations. And there are a large number of moves that aren't shared besides specials. And the only specials that are in any way the same are fireball and Super Jump Punch, and Super Jump Punch is pretty different. BY definition, a clone is identical to its original. Clearly that's not true in smash, but you can't distance very far from the original. A semi-clone, therefore, has slightly more major differences but still with several being the same- for example, Falco's blaster can't rapid-fire and his reflector is nearly completely different, but they share several similarities in Fox Illusion/Falco Phantasm, Fire Fox/Falco, Landmaster, and a large number of their standard moves. Luigi, on the other hand, has twelve things in common and everything else completely different. Whereas you can point out a large number of similarities between Fox/Falco, Falcon/Ganon, and Link/Toon Link, Mario/Luigi have ''twelve''. Yes, they were full clones in Smash Bros. (although I could debate that, it's close enough). They were semi-clones in Melee with Green Missile being basically the only unique move. Luigi was not barely a clone in Brawl. He was barely a clone in Melee, which is what made him a semi-clone. In Brawl, the moves he shared with Mario gained a number of new physics, his down special became unique (even if Mario originated it, he doesn't have it now, and that makes it Luigi's move, not Mario's), his Final Smash, most of his grabs, most of his standards, etc., which made him only a semi-clone in Brawl, but barely. I think physics should count more to clone-ness than anything else. Mario and Luigi's physics are not the same. Mario and Dr. Mario's are (for the most part). And if specials are what are used, then Luigi only shares half of his specials while Ganondorf shares three while Toon Link and Falco share all of theirs (with their parents). I'm not very technical in Smash but it's pretty clear that Mario and Luigi don't have enough similarities to be semi-clones anymore. They should have a small mention in the notes, like Falcon/Samus in the original. <small>''---Previously unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]]'' </small> 22:39, 20 October 2014 (EDT)