Talk:Momentum canceling

Similarity to Teching

I think this page should be deleted; the concept is very similar to teching. I'm not going to do it cuz I usually get in trouble, but if anyone agrees with me, I think it should be deleted.Solid Snack 01:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I thought momentum canceling was where you canceled your momentum via an aerial? Shade487z 01:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

True, but he stated that it was done via an air dodge, therefore it is identical to teching overall.Solid Snack 01:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Air dodging along an object ≠ wall tech. This stays, at least for now. Miles (talk) 02:10, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

If it helps, I was playing friendlies with my friend and instead of being knocked out by Fox's F-smash, I tripped and fell. I was pressing the shield button too... Blue Ninjakoopa 02:16, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok, just clarifying.Solid Snack 02:16, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Stub Removal

I removed the stub on this page since I added both the Vertical and Horizontal Momentum canceling charts. I also gave more information on momentum canceling in the paragraphs preceding the charts. Omega Tyrant (talk) 12:26, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Name Change

Shouldn't this technique and article be called "Momentum Negation"? Only in the case of DK's Spinning Kong and Game & Watch's Oil Panic is there truly momentum canceling. With other methods, players are just negating momentum, not canceling it. Omega Tyrant 10:55, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter what it "should" be called, since this is what people call it, and there's no known official term. Toomai Glittershine The Stats Guy 11:51, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Ok then, just clarifying. Omega Tyrant 21:07, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Spinnning Kong

Stop adding that Spinning Kong negates vertical momentum when it clearly does not. Final Destination's ceiling is not too low for the bair to not be completed fast enough. In my testing, DK was easily able to complete his bair and perform the Spinning Kong before he was Star KOd. But guess, he was KOd at 171%, the same exact percentage as with no controller input. If the bair was truly too slow, how come Mr. Game & Watch nair, a slower aerial, is able to be completed and allow Oil Panic to experience better results than the basic vertical momentum cancelling method? Simply put, DK's bair is not too slow and Final Destination's ceiling is not too low, Spinning Kong simply doesn't negate vertical momentum. Also, you again failed to provide any actual statistics. Don't try to refute my testing because you believe you saw Spinning Kong keep you from getting Star KOd without providing any statistics. Omega Tyrant 13:38, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry that's not true. If I could make videos, I'd make it clearly showing it. It is EXTREMELY clear that it does help vertically. I wasn't wrong. With you forcing me to show stats. OK I'll say this. Link's Utilt in Japes with no DI, just Momentum Canceling KO DK in Training mode at 194%. Same but using Up b helps until 200%. With an even higher ceiling (in Custom Stages) the difference becomes ridiculously clear. If DK had Meta Knight's Up Air, he could easily survive in FD vertically longer, but without a such fast aerial, it's just too late when he can move in FD. Firewario (talk) 20:42, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I tested it again and you were right. I'm sorry for the way I treated you, I done this testing long ago and I did test it, but I believe I tested it at the percentage which he dies at while using basic vertical momentum cancelling. I admit I was bias against you dut to your failure to respond to previous conflicts between us. In testing, he survived up to 179% in Final Destination from Olimar's dair. Even though it does negate vertical momentum, it is impractical for vertical momentum cancelling as he can survive up to 185% using the basic method. On a final note, don't ever call my information fake again, if you believe you find a fault in it, bring up on the talk page first. Omega Tyrant 21:31, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't mean bad by calling it fake by any means (just an alternative way of saying "it's not true") but if it didn't stop vertical momentum then you could have thought that DIing up would be a terrible idea, which it isn't, and it is a better idea than not DIing at all because that decreases the distance DK travels thus he has less time of pulling off the Bair+Up b. Firewario (talk) 21:51, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Technique for Wario

I found a special move that wario can use to negate all horizontal and vertical momentum but i am not sure if it would count as a special move because of the circumstances that need to take place, or if he could make it back to the stage at all. The move is his side B when his bike is already out on the stage. The move is pretty much instant and results in a lot of ending lag which could make wario recovering back onto the stage a problem, i only wanted to point this out because there is currently no special move that wario can use effectivly to stop his momentum and i wanted to see if someone who can test if this is an effective move, like Omega Tyrant or someone else, could and then possibly add it to the graph--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 23:09, 22 November 2010 (EST)

Hmm, I haven't tested it without the bike as I assumed it wouldn't do anything. When I finish putting up my Meteor smash chart, I'll test it out and provide the results if it works. Omega Tyrant 23:17, 22 November 2010 (EST)

Sweet, thanks--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 03:11, 23 November 2010 (EST)

I tested this, and unfortunately, it yielded no positive results. When I used Wario's forward B without accessibility to the bike, it failed to negate any momentum. When I used this move in conjunction with his fair, he was still KO'd vertically at 159%, KO'd horizontally with no DI at 160%, and KO'd at 184% with DI. So unless you forgot to mention something, Wario players will still have to almost rely solely on DI to survive longer. Omega Tyrant 04:45, 24 November 2010 (EST)

OK, well thanks for giving it a go anyway--Shaun's Wiji Dodo talk 05:39, 24 November 2010 (EST)

Wario's best momentum cancel technique is Wario's f-air as it is his quickest aerial and it also pushes wario slightly to the direction of the stage. The reason why people usually use the bike afterwards is that it is usually allows Wario to go higher in the air in order to escape danger. (except for somewhat MK and Marth as both of these characters just overpower Wario when he gets in the air and a Wario without a double jump is dead vs MK). if the opponent is using a meteor, people usually jump and either Fart (if it is built up past 1 minute) or bike --LoS PPS KoRos (talk) 13:06, 24 November 2010 (EST)

Stone

Isn't Kirby's stone a momentum canceling move? Shanicpower Make it rain! 06:40, 11 October 2012 (EDT)

Not at all. Omega Tyrant 09:07, 11 October 2012 (EDT)

Basically, Shupa, a move that does have momentum cancelling would allow you to use that move while you're being knocked away, and the move will, as per the name, cancel the momentum. Stone can't be used at all while you're being knocked away, so it can't cancel any momentum. Toast ltimatum 09:13, 11 October 2012 (EDT)

You can use it in knockback after inputting an aerial attack/air dodge just like any other special move, it just doesn't negate any knockback. Omega Tyrant 09:38, 11 October 2012 (EDT)

Technique for Zelda

I found a a special move that Zelda can use for Momentum Cancel that is use to negate horizontal momentum. It was Reverse Nayru's Love Momentum Cancel. If it was done improperly or not in time, Nayru's Love will add to Zelda's trajectory, KOing her. It was her neutral B. I found it in the video. Is her reverse neutral B used for canceling her momentum? 98.220.74.197 11:51, 20 July 2013 (EDT)

Eh. I'll do proper testing later, but in that video, it doesn't look like it kept Zelda from going farther than with normal momentum cancelling. Omega Tyrant 19:56, 20 July 2013 (EDT)

Another momentum cancel option for Ganondorf

I found another special move that Ganondorf can use to negate vertical and horizontal momentum. The move is his down b. It allows Ganondorf to survive longer after using his fastest aerial attacks to cancel vertical momentum after having great DI. On the horizontal momentum, his down b also allows Ganondorf to survive longer after using his fastest aerial attacks to cancel horizontal momentum cancel. The problem is however, if he does not DI when he is sent horizontally off stage or gets hit by a powerful semi-spike, and uses his down b after using aerials to momentum cancel, he can get KO'd early, because of his bad recovery. Wizard's Foot will not induce helplessness. It was shown on the video from 5:43 to 6:27. Is his Wizard's Foot can be use for momentum cancel? 98.220.74.197 11:09, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

I tested this back when I did the MC testing for characters. Wizard's Foot does nothing to negate vertical knockback, and the horizontal knockback negated is minimal and achieves less than basic momentum cancelling. Omega Tyrant 11:27, 1 August 2013 (EDT)

Melee

there are momentum cancelling moves in Melee as well. thoughts? DJLO (talk) 10:31, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

Of course not. You can't negate your hitstun in Melee so no momentum canceling.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 14:38, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

this article is incorrectly named, then. there /are/ moves in melee which cancel /momentum/. maybe the article should be called "hitstun cancelling." examples of moves that cancel momentum in melee: disable, reflector, counter.DJLO (talk) 15:42, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

The article is not incorrectly named; the article is about the technique called momentum cancelling (where you use certain actions to negate/divert your momentum in knockback), which is what everyone calls it in the Brawl community. Read the article; what you think is "cancelling momentum" is not what the article is about. Omega Tyrant 15:45, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

ok, well fyi there is a very similar technique in melee that several characters can use in which they cancel their momentum. another example that comes to mind is jigglypuffs pound attack, which is often used after teching in order to keep from flying off the edge.

The technique detailed in this article only refers to altering your momentum while in hitstun(knockback). The examples of negating your momentum in melee do not apply because you are no longer in hitstun when you use them. You must be freefalling to shine stall and if you tech you will not be in hitstun after the tech.--Brian^{Don't try me!} 16:13, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

oooooh i see. my bad guys. i'm wrong DJLO (talk) 16:38, 26 September 2013 (EDT)