Forum:Smash Remix content Part 2

This discussion is in regards to a proposed change on SmashWiki. The discussion must first meet with a consensus before it is implemented.

Seeing as how the prior proposal passed with option 3 (Mod page and character icons), I figured I'd start another proposal for further coverage on Smash Remix.

This proposal if passed would give Remix a status similar to Project M/+ and allow the creation of:

• independent character pages
• tournament pages for Smash Remix-exclusive tournamnents, series, or circuits
• Smash Remix ranking articles
• Smash Remix result tables on player pages
• articles of notable Smash Remix-exclusive players (admittedly not that many).
• a Smash Remix article icon
• Smash Remix majors being listed on the news template

For anyone who might not be aware, results of Smash Remix tournaments are already documented on articles in which events for it are held alongside Smash 64.

The mod was released in June 2019 and since then has seen notable use alongside Smash 64 tournaments. Most Remix brackets tend to nearly mirror the same amount of entrants as the regular 64 bracket. Active scenes have popped up in just about every major Smash 64 region apart from Japan. There have even been a good amount of netplay tournaments as well.

The official Smash Remix team has begun a Smash Remix Tour that intends to essentially act as the game's North American ranking system. A list of tournaments currently included in the tour can be found here. A list of some notable events prior to the announcement of the Tour can be found here. One thing to note might be that Remix has not been officially present at multi-game majors such as Low Tide City or Super Smash Con, however, this seems to be a result of the organizers not being interested in hosting said events whether it be due to the nature of modding itself or lack of resources. (Project M/+ has also been absent)

Some people might argue that the game hasn't eclipsed Smash 64 the same way Project M had previously done with Brawl, however, I'd argue that's not necessarily the point of the modification. Unlike PM/+, Smash Remix keeps the original 64 characters unchanged and continues to keep the same game mechanics and features (besides any that any that the new characters might have). Smash Remix is like a side dish that complements the main feast (Smash 64).

Although I don't believe this is that relevant: For comparison's sake, Project M was released in 2011 and the wiki began supporting content for it in 2013. Señor Mexicano (talk) 19:30, June 18, 2022 (EDT)

Support

1. As per proposal. I don't really see any harm being done from allowing further Remix content to be documented considering how big the mod and it's community has become. Señor Mexicano (talk) 19:30, June 18, 2022 (EDT)
2. Smash Remix is just as popular as the original, and the wiki coverage should do it justice.--Meester Tweester (talk) 19:45, June 18, 2022 (EDT)
3. Smash Remix can only grow further beyond at this point. The mod is promising and popular because it adds brand new extra content to the game instead of changing original stuffs plus there's a dedicated community, netplay or offline. Further documenting Smash Remix can only bring more benefit than harm. NPM Morr!? 02:00, December 1, 2022 (EST)
4. Smash Remix is a mod in the league of PM in its prime content-wise, there is very little reason to not engage in coverage of it. Now is the perfect time. --Plague von Karma 15:21, January 23, 2023 (EST)
5. Smash Remix has really been growing with each consecutive update and as others mentioned, has its own dedicated community in a similar vein to Project M. I'd say that documenting would help expand the wiki to other big mods. Diddy Kongstar 15:54, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
6. I think Smash Remix has gained sufficient enough traction, and so this proposal has my approval. Omega Tyrant 21:57, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
7. Hell yeah. This really doesn't need any explanation, it's a must. MHStarCraft 22:07, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
8. Smash Remix has been played by many communities I know and it has the same amount of respect as P+ and even Smash 64. It deserves such coverage as one of the most important mods and fangames today. That way I could also edit a lot of articles in relation to the Venezuelan and Chilean tournaments that are constantly making tournaments of Smash Remix. --Tacho99 (talk) 22:10, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
9. I'm all for this. It's grown to be just as popular as vanilla 64, it deserves to have more documentation on the wiki. Ultimate Toad, the Toad Warrior. (I'm the best!) 22:27, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
10. For what it's worth, the Smash 64 community has never been that big/had much exposure aside from a couple of large tournaments such as Smash Con. The fact that Smash Remix often matches the size of Smash 64 entrants in tournaments and has top 64 players in attendance shows how popular the game is within the community, and in my opinion that's really enough for it to get full coverage. CookiesCreme 22:49, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
11. I have slight concern for "opening up the floodgates", in a sense, but I do simultaneously feel that Project M already opened the floodgates. I'm fine with covering the really popular ones, especially ones that add lots of new content and build on what made the original game fun (yes, I have my fingers crossed that Akaneia reaches this point as well). Aidan the Springing Gamer 00:57, April 18, 2023 (EDT)
12. At this point, there's a lot of work that has been put into Smash Remix where I think it deserves to get a bit of spotlight on SmashWiki. I will admit that I just think the mod is such a dope idea with great execution. I also think in comparison to the Melee Wolf and Charizard mods, there are way more new characters in Smash Remix where there's a beefy amount of content that can be given pages on SmashWiki, without it being out of place/stubs. PowerShield03 (talk) 20:38, May 10, 2023 (EDT)
13. It's getting more and more popular which can be a benefit if more content from the mod is added to Smash Wiki. Thegameandwatch The Nerd 14:31, June 8, 2023 (EDT)
14. With precedent set by Project M and the sustained and growing popularity of Remix compared to the original I don't see why this shouldn't pass. Levii (talk) 18:50, June 30, 2023 (EDT)
15. I can see why people would view this addition as redundant as Smash Remix in its current state isn't as influential within the community as Project M, but I see more good than harm from this proposal, so I'd say this should pass. LaughingElfMan (talk) 19:41, June 30, 2023 (EDT)
16. Not much else to say that hasn't already been mentioned above and in SM's response to Toomai. VoqéoT 19:46, June 30, 2023 (EDT)
17. Sounds like a plan. Although after this I would suggest that we try to come up with some more rigid guidelines for mod representation in the future. Sincerely, Ender REAL (NOT CLICKBAIT) Musk. 15:42, July 16, 2023 (EDT)

Oppose

1. The main reason I only kinda grudgingly accepted PM was that it got actual coverage from mainstream sources (e.g. IGN). I don't think Smash Remix has reached that point. Toomai Glittershine The Frivolous 22:16, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

   I clarified this on the Discord, so I'll do the same here: There may be several articles on various sites of the form "hey this mod is cool you should check it out". This is not what I'm looking for. At its peak, PM had major gaming sites hosting guides and walkthroughs for it as if it were its own independent release. That's the sort of notoriety I think a mod needs to even try to deserve this status. Toomai Glittershine The Keymaster 07:35, April 18, 2023 (EDT)

   I think this line of reasoning is fairly outdated considering that meaningful guide/tutorial culture has largely shifted away using "major gaming websites", especially for competitive games. Most talk of guides or tutorials are largely exclusive to dedicated Discord servers or YouTube channels. That's not even considering the fact that gaming websites in general have seen a huge decline in recent years. In fact, a lot of guides you find on Google tend to be AI generated. With all these things considered, Smash Remix has definitely received a notable amount of mainstream coverage within the modern day gaming landscape.
   

   Your reasoning also ignores the fact that Remix has become nearly as much a part of the competitive 64 scene as the vanilla game. In my opinion, this holds much more importance over "mainstream" coverage. Señor Mexicano (talk) 18:36, June 30, 2023 (EDT)

   I am looking for a definitive, objective barometer of notability that this mod passes and all others don't, which can be used for future such discussions in the same way that "got picked up by major game websites" was defined to be PM's. I'm not seeing that here - just "it's big enough". Toomai Glittershine The Rainbow 11:47, July 1, 2023 (EDT)

2. Oppose as per Toomai. Miles (talk) 22:41, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

Comments

Looking through the Smash 64 community, I've noticed that at least a sizable portion community members almost see Remix as an outright replacement to the original. Hell, they still use Remix for "vanilla" events where they'll only allow the vanilla cast, solely because of the QoL enhancements it brings. It seems that the only thing stopping it from actually being a replacement is that larger events are terrified of running modded Smash events due to what happened to P+ (and for all I know, they may still be run under the hood anyway). If we consider each Smash title as its own "thing", then I see even less reason to not cover Remix further than before. --Plague von Karma 02:40, May 6, 2023 (EDT)

Bumping for a last call, comment on this now if you haven't already, this will be decided on within the week and I don't want to hear any complaints about the result of this proposal later on from people who never "voted" on it during the whole year they had to do so. Omega Tyrant 15:31, July 16, 2023 (EDT)