Talk:Daisy (SSBU)

Double Jumping

I see someone is not 100% sure on Daisy's second jump being different than Peach's but here I have some proofs:

So please don't delete it.

ANTI (talk)

If you wish to show the images, please do so using links, not thumbnails or similar. These disrupt the talk page and are in general unnecessary. See SW:POST.

Also, sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~), not three (~~~). See SW:SIG. — Nokii^ε (T·C·L) 19:16, 16 August 2018 (EDT)

Daisy has no noticeable differences from Peach

I don't want to just randomly change an entire page without at least discussing it first, but according to this Twitter thread, Daisy has no differences from Peach whatsoever. Or at the very least, if she does, they're minuscule and practically unnoticeable. Every single change gleaned from Smash 4 Peach that is listed on Daisy's page is a change that Peach herself also received.

This could just be due to limited testing, but I felt it was important to bring up here. I'm not saying they have absolutely no differences, but as it stands now, their differences seem to be practically non-existent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hinata2000100 (talk • contribs) 00:13 3 November 2018 (EDT)

"Unfortunately we can't test a lot". Best to wait until the game launches for hard, concrete side-by-side comparisons before uprooting everything.Nintendo101 (talk) 01:36, 3 November 2018 (EDT)

Yeah, that's fair. That's why I brought it up in the talk page instead of just changing the whole page myself. I'm fine with waiting, just wanted other opinions on the matter. Hinata2000100 (talk) 01:56, 3 November 2018 (EDT)

Echoes in general are difficult to pinpoint changes, so let's protect all those pages

Echoes have been a massive target of edit warring due to our information on all echoes (aside from Ken and Chrom) and how they differ from their base characters being extremely hard to pinpoint with our limited footage. I propose we just protect all of them to autoconfirmed at LEAST in order to prevent further edit warring and implementing of incorrect information. :V

The Puffiest Puff, Puffy Puff Puffles Puffpuff the Puff (talk) 17:39, 12 November 2018 (EST)

Effects may not affect actual attack range

I haven't fully tested everything yet, but I have noticed from the linked pages in the edit history how the different effects between Peach and Daisy seem to affect the range. What I did was this: Mega Man was my opponent, I went to the far left corner of the training stage with the wall, had Mega Man against it while facing me, and used the edge of the dress while crouching to measure distance consistently. Jab 1 does not hit any further than the fifth block past the 45 marker (assuming left-to-right instead of the right-to-left the stage follows, which would be the fifth past 44) for either of them. Jab 2 cannot hit slightly past the last block before 45 or the first block past 44 following the previous rules. In fact, I get a little spark when trying to hit Mega Man's arm with Peach beyond the normal reach. With a little more testing and verification it might be safe to assume that these changes pointed out are simply cosmetic. Dragon5 (talk) 14:56, 12 December 2018 (EST)

I just realized that wasn't one of the shown aspects on the page, so I did one that was which I could test, their neutral aerial. They appear to be exactly the same and have no differences in effects anyway. I can SH and hit Mega Man's head on the late hit two blocks before 45 (with the proper right-to-left rule) using both of them. I also tested the early hit which was about the same. The only thing I don't feel confident about is the initial sweet spot, and even then I don't think it would be different. Dragon5 (talk) 15:30, 12 December 2018 (EST)

Scratch that. The range is exactly the same, but there's a catch when I looked at this tweet: Player 2 facing left will beat out player 1 facing right. I think I just found a port priority bug. If the players are the opposite way they'll hit each other. Either way, I think it's safe to remove the difference because of this.

Daisy Bomber VS Peach Bomber

It seems to me that Daisy Bomber has less startup lag than Peach Bomber, and also travels faster. I watched a video with Peach and Daisy, noticed it, and slowed it down. Seems pretty legit. 0:17 - 0:33 https://youtu.be/l5Omuovnmg4?t=21

47.26.8.175 16:17, 12 December 2018 (EST)

While I see where you're coming from and I'd love to agree with you, I just looked into this with frame advance in the game. Unfortunately, I have found this to be untrue. I think the illusion comes from how we're used to hearing Peach make a sound while she's bending and then another when she thrusts forward. Daisy doesn't have the former, which screws with our senses as she only makes a sound as soon as she attacks. As for specifics, both of them hit on frame 13/14 against Zelda up close. They also do the same damage, which would make zero sense for echo fighters if Daisy's was overall faster. Sorry. Dragon5 (talk) 17:09, 12 December 2018 (EST)

Peach and Daisy perform the same; PLEASE stop editing to say they have gameplay differences.

They are only different cosmetically. Please stop changing it. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtzxKBNWkAA7Tbc.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtzxKBNWkAA7Tbc.jpg:large Sushicrystal (talk) 20:32, 14 December 2018 (EST)

That doesn't prove absolutely anything, that guide only lists the major difference between each character, to prove that, nothing was said about Dark Samus and Richter but yet somene found several differences for them.People have tried the characters and found Peach and Daisy have several differences like this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/kaijusanMk_2/status/1071764744288186368

Or this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/kaijusanMk_2/status/1071765321072033795

All the differences listed on the page exist so there is no reason why we should remove them.

ANTI (talk) 13:13, 15 December 2018 (EST)

Daisy Fsmah

She can select different weapons just like peach Zarago (talk) 18:08, 16 December 2018 (EST)

Attributes, Utilt, Dsmash, Dash attack

As the recent edit removed anything in the "Differences with Peach" section on the main page I am here to clarify:

The tweet used as proof is not talking about attributes at all, just Dash attack, Utilt and Dsmash so there is no point on removing them.

The tweet also says Utilt is the same and any "difference" is the unintentional shifting of the opponent, however I already posted proof that it hits while the opponent (Peach) is floating and no shift here, that's confusing but I'd rather trust in game proofs.

Dash attack and Dsmash are the same and their "evidence" was inaccurate, so removing them was right.

EDIT: But even if we refuse to add the Utilt due to the Tweet, instead of trying to ban me, please explain where it talks about Daisy's hurtbox being the same on the idle, running and while reversing her running, because here it doesn't mention it: https://twitter.com/SammiHusky/status/1077388999214288896

ANTI (talk) 18:26, 25 December 2018 (EST)

Just tested it myself on the Battlefield section of the Training Stage. Daisy's up tilt can hit a Peach at crouch float height on one of the lower platforms and vice versa, but not another Daisy. Something is up with either Daisy's hurtbox on float or the range on the move. 107.77.192.213 21:11, 25 December 2018 (EST)

Since the code for both up tilts is apparently the same, maybe Daisy's hurtbox is slightly more compact in the air? Or at least during float. I want to test it again with another character or object to see if it's a hitbox or hurtbox matter, but I don't know how to get anything else above them at that exact height. NuFace (talk) 13:08, 26 December 2018 (EST)

https://imgur.com/554mETR Here's an image I created to demonstrate what I'm talking about. All of these are up tilts on a character floating at the lowest possible height by pressing jump from crouch. The only outlier here is Daisy v. Daisy, where the hit fails to connect. If I'm not mistaken, this shouldn't be possible unless Daisy both has less range on up tilt and a smaller hitbox from at least the bottom on float. What do you all make of it? NuFace (talk) 20:00, 26 December 2018 (EST)

Thinking on it further, I believe there was a claim that Daisy also had more horizontal range on her up tilt? I don't think I've seen proof, but the seeming difference in vertical range may be a result of Daisy's model or slightly crouched stance causing the move to start from a slightly lower position, despite the hitbox being coded to be the same as Peach's. If the hitbox has a circular shape, it might also hit grounded opponents more easily since it's closer to the ground, hence the improved horizontal range. Daisy's vertical range and hurtboxes in general might warrant a lookover, but the difference is so minimal that proper testing is difficult. NuFace (talk) 09:27, 27 December 2018 (EST)

It would be useful if we can see Peach and Daisy's leg animation while they are floating, if it's not the same maybe that's why Daisy's up tilt doesn't hit her variant. Even if the legs have the same position the hurtbox might change as well I guess, wasn't there the possibility to look at the characters hurtboxes in training mode? If so it would be useful. ANTI (talk) 22:39, 27 December 2018 (EST)

https://imgur.com/cOJ1393

Here's a screenshot I took of them floating side by side. It looks to me like their heads line up, but Daisy's legs are raised ever so slightly higher than Peach's. That would explain one half of the equation, but Peach shouldn't have been able to hit Daisy unless she has more vertical range on her up tilt. I've been trying to do more tests on the up tilt to verify, but I'm not having much luck. The hurtbox visualization doesn't really help since it only shows when characters are invulnerable or intangible. NuFace (talk) 21:04, 27 December 2018 (EST)

That's interesting and weird at the same time, maybe the issue is on Daisy's utilt?Guess we need more testing in the future. Should we note the floating hurtbox being different on the main page then? ANTI (talk) 20:19, 28 December 2018 (EST)

Don't see why not. A difference is a difference no matter how small. On another note, are there any stages with platforms raised slightly higher or lower than Battlefield's? They might be useful up tilt testing.NuFace (talk) 16:17, 28 December 2018 (EST)

I... have no idea really... maybe Luigi's Mansion? Mushroom Kingdom U? Hyrule Castle? Castle Siege? I'm not sure, I never compared their platforms with the Battlefield ones. Alright I'm adding it. ANTI (talk) 22:52, 28 December 2018 (EST)

I tried testing the ranges on up tilt, up smash and up aerial from crouch float on various stages to compare Daisy and Peach's general vertical range and didn't find anything. I went back to the Training Mode stage and found something odd though. I was able to get Daisy to hit a floating Daisy with up tilt a few times, but after moving both Daisys around a bit I was also able to recreate the situation where she misses. I don't think I was able to do it with Peach. She seemed to both hit and get hit in all scenarios. I'm not sure if this means there was a possible error that invalidates my earlier results or if the difference on Daisy's floating hurtbox is even more minuscule than previously thought. It could be that only a particular part of the hurtbox is slightly smaller than Peach's. Furthermore, if we assume that the hurtbox difference is true and that Peach always lands the hit, but Daisy misses in this one case, then there logically must be a difference on Daisy's up tilt hitbox as well. I think it may have marginally less vertical range or start from a slightly lower position because of Daisy's height. If only it were easier to reproduce all this in more cases. NuFace (talk) 14:36, 29 December 2018 (EST)

So...why did nobody tell me after all this time CPU clones in Training are all on the same team? Now all of this testing of mine is probably bupkis. Can't make any edits myself though what with recent security upgrade.

Bah, what a mess. I'mma go sulk in a corner or something. NuFace (talk) 20:45, 22 February 2019 (EST)

Should Daisy vocalizing a bit later for her Daisy bomber be considered a buff, since it gives less warning to react?

Considering how the fact that Daisy vocalizes slightly later into the move, I feel like it would be a bit of a buff, considering how Peach gives off a brief warning beforehand, while Daisy does not184.181.102.188 15:09, 12 January 2019 (EST)

No, because it's not a change. Daisy vocalises at frame 1 like Peach. --Tuffingtons (talk) 13:44, 19 January 2019 (EST)

Stronger but Less Defense?

I am not sure if this is anything, but I have tested both out, and while it was said both are the same aside from hit boxes, I have noticed Daisy pits out slightly more damage and takes more compared to Peach. I have noticed this rather consistently as well when I play. --Solgalillie (talk) 20:22, 13 January 2019 (EST)

If this was true, somebody would have found this already. 184.181.102.188 20:43, 16 January 2019 (EST)

Would you like to show some evidence? If you are right we might add that on the page.

ANTI (talk) 23:16, 14 January 2019 (EST)

Clearing up a certain edit war

• Daisy is one of the only three full clones in the series to not have any significant gameplay differences from their base characters, the others being Richter and Dark Samus.

While Dark Samus and Richter do not have any significant differences, Daisy legitamately has nothing to differentiate her. Richter and Dark Samus have a few elemental differences, resulting in slightly different results against Alph/Olimar. However, Daisy does not have any elemental differences at all. Lou Cena (talk) 23:28, 19 February 2019 (EST)

It's slight, but not significant. Otherwise Daisy's hurtbox differences should also be considered. For Dark Samus, Missile and Bomb are fire so she can deal with element specific situations just as well as Samus. --OlympicMario7 (talk) 15:14, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Should Daisy’s protection time be raised to infinite like the other clones, or should the others’ protection level have a time limit now?

Just wondering, since Daisy’s protection expires in 2 days, whereas he other echo fighters have infinite protection. Lou Cena (talk) 18:38, 22 February 2019 (EST)

Sorry didn't notice that it had a time limit on it. Corrected. Serpent  King 18:40, 22 February 2019 (EST)

Daisy DOES have a gameplay difference from Peach

Someone I know on Discord was labbing both differences from Daisy and Peach and discovered a difference after 3 months of the game’s release. It has been confirmed in this video that Daisy’s turnips actually deal less knockback than Peach’s turnips, as showcased in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRCsmSh2Wv8 So they do in fact have one major gameplay difference excluding hurtbox placements, so there you have it.

--JustrzBustrz (talk) 12:05, March 17, 2019 (EDT)

https://twitter.com/jugeeya/status/1107331970944503808?s=21 This post even contains the coding params for their turnips. TsoulX (talk) 14:00, March 17, 2019 (EDT)

So... shouldn't we get rid of the first trivia? ANTI 23:30, March 17, 2019 (EDT)

So why is is listed as a universal negative, shouldn't lower knockback growth and higher base knockback mean it's more poerful at lower percentages and more consistent across higher ones? I think it's still too early to say for sure. Guybrush20X6 (talk) 06:44, March 18, 2019 (EDT)

This got removed in 3.0. Daisy's turnips are now identical to Peach's. --ANewLeaf (talk) 21:39, April 17, 2019 (EDT)

That... has already been noted. SugarCookie 420 21:43, April 17, 2019 (EDT)

Daisy's turnips are a straight nerf.

Daisy has less hitstun on her turnips due to reduced knockback, and the turnip combo thing only applies to certain situations on a limited amount of characters. In all other situations Peach's turnips are better. Even in casual play like Spirits, there's no real advantage to Daisy's turnips. Check in the calculator for Daisy and Peach. Play around with the values a bit. Sometimes the difference can be rather notably against Daisy. --31.49.71.198 07:34, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

Why are you bringing this up? It's already been noted. SugarCookie 420 15:43, April 5, 2019 (EDT)

Daisy's side taunt

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but Daisy's side taunt also resembles her victory pose in Mario spin-offs such as Mario Party series. Derekblue1 (talk)

Autoconfirmed users and Administrators, listen!

When I look at fighter pages, they have something to say about their competitive metagame history. However, fighter pages like this don’t have that kind of paragraph. If anybody has done some research about Daisy’s competitive history, please write a paragraph about it in her competitive play section. SonDaniel (talk page) 17:09, April 7, 2020 (EDT)

Relax, be at ease. Daisy and Dark Pit don't have competitive history sections because they're more-or-less identical to their base fighters and thus considered interchangeable for the purposes of the metagame. Using one or the other is basically up to the player's discretion. ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 17:13, April 7, 2020 (EDT)

Hmm... Good point, but I wonder about Ken’s competitive metagame history, because he’s a clone of Ryu. Is it because Ken isn’t too identical to Ryu as Daisy is identical to Peach? SonDaniel (talk page) 17:22, April 7, 2020 (EDT)

Exactly that. Ken has different stats and moves, which add up and make him more favorable than Ryu in the metagame. Same with Lucina and Chrom: Lucina is widely considered better than Marth, while Chrom is (as of late) considered slightly worse than Roy. Dark Samus, Dark Pit, Richter, and Daisy (listed from most different to least) have marginal differences from their base fighters, but are still considered essentially interchangeable. ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 21:46, April 8, 2020 (EDT)

Got it! Even thought I still think they should have their own paragraphs about their metagame histories, you don't have to listen to me. LOL! Thanks! SonDaniel (talk page) 21:55, April 8, 2020 (EDT)

Pre-release differences

While trying to get a cleaner version of this image without YouTube's gradient, I tried to recreate the image in-game and found that her skirt is flatter (streamlined? whichever) in current versions compared to pre-release footage. Here's a couple animations cycling through my recreations and screenshots from the showcase video (color differences are probably just YouTube encoding); the second one may seem like a different frame, but in both cases the next frame is significantly different, so I'm confident they're the same frame but received more tweaking later on. I also found that in the showcase with her up special, her mouth is closed whereas in modern versions she has her mouth open and a smile. Should this be noted anywhere? And while I'm here, should the image linked above be updated to a modern recreation or kept as a screenshot from the showcase (I did manage to get one without the gradient as that was the original goal)? --CanvasK (talk) 16:52, August 20, 2021 (EDT)

Daisy's moveset subpages

This discussion is in regards to a proposed change on SmashWiki. The discussion must first meet with a consensus before it is implemented.

If I am using this proposal template right, I think Echo Fighters have the "Overview" headings that links to the original fighter's moveset subpages. Like Daisy to Peach, most of her moves function like Peach's. The ones that can be left as an exception is the differences in the overview. For example: Daisy (SSBU)/Down tilt with See also: Peach (SSBU)/Down tilt, etcetera. Derekblue1 (talk) 00:03, November 30, 2022 (EST)