User talk:MetaKnightX6

King Dedede's forward smash

Hey, could you provide some evidence that King Dedede's forward smash can kill at 10% when fully charged? Someone checked the Smash calculator and found it to not be true, and adding that point back in would be considered edit warring. CookiesCreme 15:37, June 14, 2021 (EDT)

Ok, maybe I just made an error there MetaKnightX6 (talk) 01:59, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

Not them, but I was able to KO Mario from the center of FD at 18% (16% fresh) with no DI. I was able to get much lower with rage, though I don't recall if we make note of that. --CanvasK (talk) 15:47, June 14, 2021 (EDT)

You have to factor in DI, it doesn't kill Mario until 26% with no rage, and even max rage it doesn't kill until 16%. Omega Tyrant 15:57, June 14, 2021 (EDT)

Hey, stop adding back in bad edits and read our manual of style, you will be blocked if you keep this editing behavior up. Omega Tyrant 15:57, June 14, 2021 (EDT)

Guys can you please do this kind of discussion in the dedede tab instead I am more likely to read it there as I never read my user talk. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 02:06, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

Word of advice

This wiki is not for doing whatever you please. I highly recommend that you read this first and familiarise yourself with wiki policies, particularly this one. I would like to see you become a constructive user on this wiki when your block expires tomorrow, and I'll even be willing to help you along with that. Have a nice day. Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 20:57, June 14, 2021 (EDT)

Oh, didn’t know this wiki had specific rules until I got blocked MetaKnightX6 (talk) 02:11, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

Please can I have advice on how to be a good editor

Well this website doesn’t work as I think and the rules are kinda confusing for me so can you guys give me some advice please, I would appreciate it :) MetaKnightX6 (talk) 02:24, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

Particularly read the ones that Vulpine and I linked you, and don't try to "force" contribution, make edits when you can that is genuinely improving something and not just for the sake of "making an edit". Also you don't need to type out your name after signing, and when replying to someone directly, indent your comment with colons at the beginning of it (using one more colon than the comment your replying to did). Omega Tyrant 02:44, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

Thanks, this helped a lot :) MetaKnightX6 (talk) 02:50, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

As OT and Black Vulpine mentioned earlier, I have a feeling that reading through the Manual of Style and its Words to Watch subpage would be particularly helpful for you in understanding the writing guidelines we have. SW:FIRST and SW:NOT are also good resources.

As for the strongest advice I can give without making this response too long:

Where to find the Show Preview button.

• SmashWiki's writing style is semiformal, with a very strong adherence to grammatical conventions.
• Take the time to go through the wiki policies as you start out.
• Monitoring recent changes will help you understand the kinds of edits other users tend to let stand vs. undo.
• Double-check that the information you want to put in an article isn't already there in another section.
• Use the "Show preview" button (to the right of the "Save changes" button) to make sure your edits are exactly as you want them before saving.
• Don't be afraid to ask other users for help and/or clarification, whether that's on talk pages or the Discord server.

I'm glad you're wanting to learn, and I know you'll improve. Unfortified Castle 02:53, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

Thanks to you too, this also helps a lot :) MetaKnightX6 (talk) 12:45, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

What is the ideal wording

It seems that my main problem is poor wording, and I can’t really get around that. Any tips of how to improve my use of wording when editing? MetaKnightX6 (talk) 12:36, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

How do you use smash calculator

I tried it and I have no idea how it works, so the only other reference option I have is the youtuber kill percent videos, which seems to disagree with the kill percentages on smash calculator according to Omega Tyrant. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 12:39, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

YouTubers usually do kill% without DI, even if they do, the DI may not be optimal. Make sure you are using the KO% calculator, by using the KO% calculator you can choose the character's move, the position of the character (center etc.) and you also get to calculate the best DI KO%. NPM Morr!? 12:57, June 16, 2021 (EDT)

I’m going to create a page here is the link

Kill Power —Preceding unsigned comment added by MetaKnightX6 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 17 June 2021 (EDT)

Pages under construction belong as drafts. Please move the page into your userspace (so it would be User:MetaKnightX6/Kill Power) and add the draft template. From there, you and other users can collaborate and finish the article before moving it into the mainspace, if the page merits that.

Additionally, page creations are visible on Recent Changes, so this post is somewhat redundant; users tend to follow the Recent Changes page. Unfortified Castle 16:44, June 17, 2021 (EDT)

About G&W

Double checked, kills around 45-50%, not early enough to be one of the strongest in the game (has to kill at least at around 35-40%

Could you provide the specifics you are using for kill percents (receiving character, from middle of stage or from the edge, and also if you are charging the smash attack. The standard for these are Mario (or a mid weight) in the middle of FD without charging. Thanks! Serpent  King 14:47, July 8, 2021 (EDT)

Well, I do it how

All the youtubers do, Mario, centre Fd, charged, no di. Also, the are many youtubers doing it like how I do, you guys should change or say it’s uncharged to avoid confusion. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 07:56, August 28, 2021 (EDT)

The purpose of factoring in DI is that in the majority of matches, the opponent isn't going to just stand there and let you attack. Even my friends and family, who rarely play Smash, will instinctively hold some direction when getting hit and thus changing the kill%. By assuming optimal DI, we list the maximum survivable percent; if something KOs at 50% with optimal DI, then obviously it will KO with any other input (or none at all). Smash attacks are the same deal, the opponent won't let you charge (or rarely to full charge if they can help it) and if something KOs when uncharged then obviously it will KO when charged. --CanvasK (talk) 08:11, August 28, 2021 (EDT)

I’m aware of that, but literally every person I know of tests it with no DI, I’m just trying to avoid mass confusion MetaKnightX6 (talk) 13:32, September 1, 2021 (EDT)

And we don't play by their rules, we play by our rules. And if someone doesn't play by our rules, it causes us confusion. (I'll admit, I'd like if this was written down somewhere. I've been here for a couple years and I'm still learning some standards) --CanvasK (talk) 13:56, September 1, 2021 (EDT)

SW:TRIVIA

Take a look at that guideline. The trivia point you added to Inkling has nothing to do with the character. CookiesCreme 12:06, July 13, 2021 (EDT)

What guideline? MetaKnightX6 (talk) 12:43, July 13, 2021 (EDT)

Also, how is it irrelevant, it is literally their name? MetaKnightX6 (talk) 12:44, July 13, 2021 (EDT)

Oh never mind, I thought that was the link to Inklings trivia, sorry MetaKnightX6 (talk) 12:45, July 13, 2021 (EDT)

First, use ":" to indent your talk page posts.

Second, what does the meaning of "inkling" have to do with the Inkling character other than they both have the same name, which in itself is irrelevant to the character's representation in Smash? Just because something has a very loose connection to something else doesn't mean it is worthwhile to note. It's why we don't have a trivia point that states that "Fox is based off of the real life fox" because it has nothing to do with the character.

Third, also take a look at SW:WAR. Readding something that has been reverted is considered edit warring.

Wait, did I add it back? Must have been an accident. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 15:08, July 13, 2021 (EDT)

Finally, I noticed you previously stated that you don't check your talk page often. The point of your talk page is so people can directly contact you, as you get a notification every time it gets edited. Failure to check your talk page will often result in miscommunication. CookiesCreme 12:52, July 13, 2021 (EDT)

Ok, I check my talk page much more often now though, thankfully MetaKnightX6 (talk) 15:08, July 13, 2021 (EDT)

King Dedede

You're saying that people "with actual knowledge of Dedede" are placing him in mid-tier. First, people who play the character do often put their character higher on a tier list. Second, I checked four top players' opinions (ESAM, Dabuz, MkLeo, and Tweek) and three of them place Dedede in low tier, or rather close to the bottom with other low tiers, so clearly there's some consensus in top play that Dedede is in that position. Finally, even if most people do consider Dedede mid-tier, almost no one claims that Dedede is "upper mid or bottom-high" as you claimed in your edit summary.

I don't know why you're so focused on characters like Dedede being better than they are, but cut it out. CookiesCreme 16:39, August 27, 2021 (EDT)

Well, when do you start accepting high tiers? I feel like that’s what makes us disagree. Well, I start accepting high tiers from B tier +. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 07:33, August 28, 2021 (EDT)

Well, it’s because I believe people initially saw dedede as bad since early ultimate and have since has a very pessimistic view of him no matter what, and those too players you saw apart from that one all have that view, so I say their views apart from that one are all irrelevant. Also, I don’t really trust pros when it comes for ranking. I make my own views, and you should too instead of completely going by what the pros say MetaKnightX6 (talk) 07:35, August 28, 2021 (EDT)

Sorry to cut in, but that’s because they actually have deep knowledge of their fighter, and when ranking dedede you REALLY NEED deep knowledge of him. sadly even pros do not have the DEEP knowledge of dedede and none of the ones you said play dedede. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 07:38, August 28, 2021 (EDT)

Don't insert your replies into someone else's comments as it breaks the flow and makes it hard to determine where someone's post ends and yours begins. Additionally, use colons (:) at the start of your replies to help organize threads and clarify who is talking to who. --CanvasK (talk) 07:43, August 28, 2021 (EDT)

"Well, when do you start accepting high tiers"

What tier a character is ranked is not relevant in this case. Furthermore, Dedede is almost always ranked in the bottom two tiers, which is in no way high tier.

"I say their views apart from that one are all irrelevant"

First, I have absolutely no idea what you're even talking about in that paragraph.

But from what I'm getting, you're calling the opinions of a few top players, people who play at the highest level of play and very likely have a better understanding at the metagame compared to regular players, irrelevant? You can be hesitant on their opinions, but to entirely dismiss it just because they're pessimistic about a character is, quite frankly, silly and ignorant.

"I make my own views, and you should too instead of completely going by what the pros say"

Completely irrelevant to the point. Unfortunately, the wiki does not care about some random user's opinions. You're fine believing that Dedede is high tier, but unfortunately I haven't seen anyone else who has that view.

"Sorry to cut in, but that’s because they actually have deep knowledge of their fighter, and when ranking dedede you REALLY NEED deep knowledge of him"

Again to my point from before, people who play their character often overrate their character when ranking them. Just look at Melee Zelda: their players believe that the character has a decent matchup spread, even against a few high tiers, yet the general community considers her a bottom 3 character. When talking about viability on the wiki, it's absolutely necessary to look at the entire community's opinions on the character, not just a specific group of people, lest we get character bias.

My point is, I understand you think King Dedede is severely underrated, however you're pushing the views of a few people to justify the character's viability in the eyes of the entire community; stuff like that definitely does not belong on a wiki, which is meant to report what the general consensus is. I really recommend to stop hyperfocusing on what people say on Dedede and wait for the general consensus to change their opinions on the character. CookiesCreme 19:45, August 28, 2021 (EDT)

Maybe Dedede is mid tier or better, I can see it being a strong possibility that he is a decent character, but either way this is your warning to stop making these sorts of edits to the Dedede page, do so again and you will be blocked. Omega Tyrant 19:56, August 28, 2021 (EDT)

Cookies and cream I don’t want to really continue this argument so late since we have more or less come to terms and I agree more or less with your final point on waiting for the community (which will be very long) but there are a few points you misinterpreted so bad that I have to correct you.

"I make my own views, and you should too instead of completely going by what the pros say"

“::Completely irrelevant to the point. Unfortunately, the wiki does not care about some random user's opinions. You're fine believing that Dedede is high tier, but unfortunately I haven't seen anyone else who has that view.”

I appreciate you respecting what I believe, but did what I add to the article say dedede was high tier? No. Thus the wiki caring what I think makes no actual sense, not that I care about what the wiki sees of my views in the slightest anyway. Also, that bit doesn’t have to be irrelevant to the point, it is just that I feel that you completely go by what the pros say, which I think isn’t good (ESPECIALLY if it is ESAM) as it can be harmful and dictate who you play.

"I say their views apart from that one are all irrelevant"

”First, I have absolutely no idea what you're even talking about in that paragraph.

But from what I'm getting, you're calling the opinions of a few top players, people who play at the highest level of play and very likely have a better understanding at the metagame compared to regular players, irrelevant? You can be hesitant on their opinions, but to entirely dismiss it just because they're pessimistic about a character is, quite frankly, silly and ignorant”

Well, for starters, please don’t call me a regular player, I’m not an online spammer who jumps 20 times, spams OOs when you’re in their half of the stage and tries to spike you when your still onstage. Also, the ‘regular’ player I’m pretty sure plays very casually, items on, etc. I don’t. Items annihilate skill. I prefer skill. Though every idk, 2 weeks or so I might just bully a lvl 1 or something for fun and to relax with items after the adrenaline higher levels of elite smash gives and then go back to elite smash (But I will admit, doing 8 player new pork no items is really fun and still maintains *most* skill). Also, again,I don’t think you know the types of people when it comes to viewing dedede. There are 2 types: People that are flexible and have seen his improvement and then the people that saw him once in early ultimate and got ONE opinion only to keep it for 2 years and onwards not caring about what improvements are made. Also, I don’t ‘dismiss’ them as irrelevant, i through and through BELIEVE they are irrelevant, as I think I’m at a level of understanding of the game to make my own views. Like, ESAM said something along the lines of ‘Gordo is a bit annoying but once you got around it they’re gone.’ What a lie. Sure gordo being annoying is true but acting like it’s dededes only attribute is so untrue. That attribute goes onto so many other, giving him among the best ledgetrapping and hardest shield-break punishes in the game. Also, there are so many attributes they didn’t even consider. His anti airs. Amazing. Up air is extremely hard to beat (thus making it a viable contender for best up air in the game IN MY OPINION), beats even stall n falls due to long duration and isn’t a susceptible to di as they think. While di is effective at low altitudes it doesn’t really matter so much higher up as well… it has so much knockback their di won’t change much, and the angle also isn’t as low as they think. Also, his tier lists are biased in my opinion. And those other 2. They’re the same, but not as bad as ESAM. I could go on, but I don’t want to crash the website.

"Well, when do you start accepting high tiers"

”What tier a character is ranked is not relevant in this case. Furthermore, Dedede is almost always ranked in the bottom two tiers, which is in no way high tier”

Well, I don’t know what YOU’RE talking about here. It’s clear I don’t care about what the community thinks. Besides, half of them are extremely toxic and that has an impact, as their views are bound to be biased thus making this community one of the worst communities I’ve seen (but let’s not talk about roblox and their toxic Kids that grind terrible games, ok?).

Also, this probably sounds EXTREMELY stupid, but results should only be considered once they are divided by the amount of players there were for that character competitively. Like, dedede has a large non-competitive player base, but tiny competitive playerbase, whether that may be because they are too young or just… I don’t know… probably don’t want to play competitive? Because, NEVER have I seen a characters results divided by their competitive playerbase. And that is why I don’t care about results unless they are divided to get the ACTUAL average a player would get, as that really unfair as characters like Marth get what SmashWiki says among the ‘worst’ results, but that could very well be to his tiny player base! Like, the ‘results’ aren’t actually really a super viable factor, unless you are playing REALLY low- tiered characters.

I hope now this will get truly settled after your response. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 11:29, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

I'm starting off by saying, if I came off as forcing you to change your opinion, that was not the intention and I apologize.

That being said, I feel like I can respond to almost everything you have with a single point: I, nor anyone, do not care about your opinions or whether they are different compared to what the general consensus says. It's perfectly fine to have your own opinion: I believe that Marth has potential to be a high-tier character and that Steve, while a good character, is often overrated. However, and I have to stress it, that does not mean you can just change something to match your viewpoint when the general consensus sees otherwise. I don't edit Marth and Steve's pages so they match my opinions, because they don't reflect what the community says. That's the main issue here: you tend to focus one one person's opinions, often just yours, when adding stuff onto the wiki, and then complain, sometimes even act in an immature manner, that they're reverted. The wiki represents what the community thinks, not what one person thinks, and unfortunately, even if it comes from a top professional, if an edit ends up disagreeing with what the community thinks, it has to be reverted, or at the very least toned down. Generalizing half of a community as "toxic" also comes off as rather naïve, especially since not only is the "toxic" side often just a loud minority, but it's present in every single fandom out there. If you're ignoring an opinion just because of a "toxic" side of the community, that's not forming your own opinion.

I understand both of us don't want this to drag on, but I hope you understand the bottom line: none of us are attacking your opinion, but are simply telling you to be careful of personal bias when making edits. CookiesCreme 12:54, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

I’m not arguing against you in this reply but in regards to reacting immaturely it is probably because I am much younger than you think and just reading ‘no’ in Omega Tyrants summary set me off a bit too much. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 16:28, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

Don’t you dare try to play the “I’m younger, so go easy on me” card. That is an excuse that is never going to wash. Everyone, no matter the age, no matter their social status, no matter their mental condition, is expected to behave in a proper and mature manner on this wiki, and there will be no exceptions made to this end. Black Vulpine of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺. Furries make the internets go! :3 16:48, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

Well I’m not trying that card, never even heard of that phrase. Also from my understanding of the human brain different ages react quite differently when managing anger. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 16:59, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

Smash calculator is outdated?!

I checked it, it says smash 4 data?! MetaKnightX6 (talk) 13:33, September 1, 2021 (EDT)

Not every character has data for the calculator. Most of it is/was inputted by Kurogane Hammer, but the level of detail he puts in takes a lot of time, patience, and motivation. I believe Ruben, the calculator's creator, was working on something to be able to parse the scripts directly to get the data but, again, it is something takes time, patience, and motivation. In the mean time you can input the values for the move you want to test manually based on data from the scripts. --CanvasK (talk) 13:56, September 1, 2021 (EDT)

I don’t get where I’m going wrong

I don’t get it. I’m following the guidelines. I check whatever I edit and carefully add it. Also, Omega Tyrant, are you mocking me just because I edit who I main? Did I ever say I knew more than the pros? I don’t get it. The marth edit- everything seemed so perfectly fine to me. Also, I was saying the ko percents without DI- but it doesn’t matter. With or without the DI, fair up air and bair are still relatively average. Also Omega Tyrant, had you just said something more than ‘no’ after removing a massive edit I wouldn’t have reacted so ‘immaturely’. Maybe it was a mistake adding in the capital letters and I think you mistook them for what would be shouting- no- when I use Captial letters what I mean it to sound like is stern or annoyed speaking. Also You never give a reason that I can learn from when removing my edits. All I get is the same ‘SmashWiki is not a strategy guide’ ‘bias’ and block threats. You think blocking me will make me better at editing? No. It’ll just make me hate you. You think just saying I have bias when removing it when I can’t even see WHERE the bias is when editing it will help me? No. It’ll just start this massive argument. I appreciate the initial help you gave, but clearly it wasn’t enough. If you don’t help me and just keep removing my edits like this, I might as well just leave this wiki. You’re acting like I’m the problem, but really you’re just not helping me. You expect me to be like a baby giraffe- to learn how to survive minutes after being born. Well, humans aren’t like that. They need time. They need help. You all have been here for years and years- but have I? You can’t just expect me to be perfect when I can’t see where I’m going wrong. MetaKnightX6 (talk) 16:58, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

"I don’t get it. I’m following the guidelines. I check whatever I edit and carefully add it."

You say this yet you have been constantly nonconstructive in your edits and your conduct, while showing little to no improvement.

"Also, Omega Tyrant, are you mocking me just because I edit who I main?"

If you're referring to me putting "mains" in quotations in your claims of playing so many characters, it's a blatant sign of your inexperience when you claim to play so many characters, and I'm going to treating someone's claims of such characters a lot less seriously.

"Did I ever say I knew more than the pros?"

You have certainly acted like it with your edits here.

"The marth edit- everything seemed so perfectly fine to me. Also, I was saying the ko percents without DI- but it doesn’t matter. With or without the DI, fair up air and bair are still relatively average."

I gave you the hard data on why your edit is so misinformed, yet you're still claiming this, and are now saying Marth uair is after before saying it's "fine"? Yet you wonder why we have such a problem with your edits.

" You think blocking me will make me better at editing? No. It’ll just make me hate you."

The point of blocking you is to stop your nonconstructive edits that is doing nothing but tying up other editors' time in fixing and responded to, I already spent way more time than I should have to today tending to a 12 year old mucking up the wiki. If you learn from the block and come back a better editor, good, if you leave forever or have to get permabanned for repeating the same old shit, it's no skin off the wiki's back.

The rest of your post is nonsense, you're frankly too young to be on the internet, and certainly shouldn't be active on something like a wiki that requires some measure of competence and maturity. The wiki doesn't have a minimum age requirement, under the belief that users should be judged just on their actions and how a couple under 13 year olds have proved to be decent users in the past, but you make a strong example for why under 13 year olds shouldn't be allowed on the wiki. So yeah, shape up, or you'll be given a year block, where if you then choose to return, perhaps that year gives you some time to mature to a sufficient degree. Also stop misusing talk pages. Omega Tyrant 17:29, September 10, 2021 (EDT)

What has this turned into

I don’t even know what I’m going to be arguing about next- but whatever it is publish it quickly I may go to bed soon (on the Saturdays/Fridays bedtime has no consistency) MetaKnightX6 (talk) 17:13, September 10, 2021 (EDT)