Talk:Game Freak

I strongly support per tag. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 19:45, 13 February 2016 (EST)

Unless new information is found to help keep it as an article, I give it weak support. After all, they actually own the franchise and all its respective properties. BaconMaster 19:48, 13 February 2016 (EST)

100% oppose, they are co-owners of playable characters and are credited as such all over official Smash media. Miles (talk) 19:50, 13 February 2016 (EST)

PlatinumGames co-owns Bayonetta (proven by the fact that she's in basically all of their games) and are credited as such in the only Smash media they are in. Also, uh, you basically just said what is on the tag except ignoring the part that PG is not getting a page for the same reason. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 19:53, 13 February 2016 (EST)

Didn't we just go over this? PG developed Bayonetta, they don't co-own as far as I know. Serpent King 19:55, 13 February 2016 (EST)

As far as I can tell (given this is an amateur understanding of copyrights with information on Google), PG's "ownership" of Bayonetta is no different than GF's "ownership" of Pikachu. They developed it and it is their intellectual property, but Sega/Nintendo has all control over it.

I'm not saying PG owns Bayonetta, I'm saying they have as much ownership of her as Game Freak has over Pikachu and other Pokemon. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 19:59, 13 February 2016 (EST)

You're not correct, Nutty. A quick glance here or at the copyrights on the SSB4 title screen will tell you as much. Miles (talk) 20:02, 13 February 2016 (EST)

...interesting. (returns to google)

Still, I'm not convinced partial ownership of a character makes them page-worthy. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 20:07, 13 February 2016 (EST)

On the contrary, that's exactly why they're notable enough. Hence why, of our current company pages, Rare is the only one I'd be willing to drop. Intelligent Systems co-owns the Fire Emblem characters; Game Freak/Creatures co-own Pokemon characters; Monolith Soft co-owns Xenoblade characters, etc. We also kept Shigesato Itoi when pruning other "people" articles for the same reason, since he co-owns the Mother characters. Miles (talk) 20:13, 13 February 2016 (EST)

Full oppose for what it's worth. Serpent King 20:12, 13 February 2016 (EST)

50/50 The tag mentioned other dev companies that have questionable use on the wiki. So I have a suggestion: Instead of keeping or deleting said pages, let's merge them into a list of companies involved in games that are featured in Smash (would need a better title than that tho). Redirects can be made as well for the old articles to the new one. Most of them seem permanent stub. Think about when people were trying to add pages on swords some fighters use, so an article of a list of swords was made to compensate. In a nutshell: take the navigation template and turn it into a article. RobSir zx 20:15, 13 February 2016 (EST)

I wholeheartedly agree with this. BaconMaster 20:16, 13 February 2016 (EST)

Merging perma-stubs while keeping relevant information is always a good plan, so yeah, I'd say this is a good idea. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 20:17, 13 February 2016 (EST)

I think some of these can and should be fleshed out enough to stand alone, so I'm personally not in favor of handling this case in that fashion. Miles (talk) 20:17, 13 February 2016 (EST)

So, shall we expand upon all possible articles and merge the rest? BaconMaster 20:18, 13 February 2016 (EST)

I can't think of any other information that can be added that's Smash-relevant and isn't already on other pages. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 20:19, 13 February 2016 (EST)

If we redid the pages a la Rare's page, we could probably add more information. BaconMaster 20:22, 13 February 2016 (EST)

Rare is mostly large-looking because it's all in bullet lists, which makes for a lot of lines. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 20:24, 13 February 2016 (EST)

However, it still contains more information (characters, items, stages, stickers, music, etc.) If we added these sorts of sections to the other pages we may be able to lengthen each one of them at least a little bit. BaconMaster 20:26, 13 February 2016 (EST)

But that could fit just as well in a subsection on this type of list. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 20:34, 13 February 2016 (EST)

I am a little shaky on the merging thing. It could work (most of these articles are pretty short/stubby anyway), but I do believe that GF and MS at least should get separate pages based on general notability. Serpent King 20:38, 13 February 2016 (EST)

That's pretty flawed logic. I mean, that's kind of how we ended up with a page on Charles Martinet for awhile, because he was the most recognizable voice actor. We can't merge some pages and keep Game Freak and Monolith Soft, we either need to keep them all or merge them all. It's not like the leaks and rumors. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 20:51, 13 February 2016 (EST)

Alright, if a merger isn't something to fully consider, I really do believe that an article based on the navigation template would be a great investment. It could actually create a place for first, second, and third party companies being mentioned in various articles linked + redirected. It could have short summaries of larger pages like Nintendo and out right replace permanent stubs (if they aren't eventually fleshed out that is). RobSir zx 20:40, 13 February 2016 (EST)

Oppose, Game Freak owns playable characters (plus some assist/trophy only ones) and is listed on the copyright screen. Not extremely relevant, but they also worked on Yoshi (game). I find Monolith's deletion even more questionable since they worked on Brawl. Not sure about a merge. -Menshay (talk) 09:49, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Oppose, it's really dumb that thinking that since PG shouldn't get a page, the rest shouldn't get a page. It seems the cutoff, the threshold, is purely ownership. But, I think that we can live with PG having a page even though they don't have ownership, as they are the peeps who actually created Bayonetta and made both games. Now, I wonder why Rare has a page when it doesn't even have ownership over anything in Smash anymore. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 11:59, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Because past games with their content still exist and as such are relevant to the wiki, plus Diddy and some Donkey Kong Country content (owned by Nintendo but created by Rare) are still in. Sort of the same as PlatinumGames, I guess. (By the way, I'm neutral about both of those existing.) -Menshay (talk) 13:55, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Hmmm good points. I forgot that they made Diddy Kong and the DKC universe. It's a larger-scale case than Camelot making Waluigi, Tose making Starfy, etc. This is hard. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 14:06, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Rare's also a messy case since some of the Rare content in Melee is specially credited as owned by them at the end of the credits, when some of it is (Perfect Dark) and some of it actually isn't (DKC2). Miles (talk) 14:24, 14 February 2016 (EST)

As far as I can tell, and from what I know, both Rare and PlatinumGames have a case where they have larger-scale content (i.e. playable characters + stages + music) created by them, but not currently owned by them, in Super Smash Bros. Coupled with Rare's mention in the Melee credits, and the Proximity Mine being specifically noted as a Perfect Dark item, which is currently owned by Microsoft, yeah it's messy for sure. I wonder if PlatinumGames is mentioned in the credits, or Hideki Kamiya. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 14:30, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Platinum is mentioned in the Wii U version credits among tons of other less-involved developers. They're not listed at all in the 3DS version, since I'm pretty sure the Wii U credit is for ported TW101 trophy assets. Contrast this with the special mention given to Rare in Melee, and the difference is there. Miles (talk) 14:39, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Hmmm what about with Bayonetta downloaded? I know the DLC VAs are listed, but what about companies/people? Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 14:41, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Because now the only difference is the scale of content included. Platinum now has W101 and Bayonetta content in the game. W101 is lesser-scale than any Rare-developed content though. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 14:42, 14 February 2016 (EST)

I'm quite certain Platinum isn't in the 3DS version credits with her downloaded. I believe their place in the Wii U credits is unchanged as well. I do have an idea related to this topic I'm gonna draft, thinking about it. Miles (talk) 14:44, 14 February 2016 (EST)

(edit conflict)Fully Oppose deletion, per ownership reasoning. I'm also not convinced the merging idea is great either. ScizorSteelix 14:27, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Okay I double-checked, and the following companies are in the "Platinum tier" of minor developer credits in the Wii U version, with my best guess about what they were credited for:

• Arika (AR Games)
• Asobism (Freakyforms)
• Choice Provisions (BIT.TRIP)
• Ganbarion (Pandora's Tower)
• Good-Feel (Wario Land: Shake It!, Yoshi's Woolly World, etc.)
• Grezzo (Ocarina of Time 3D, etc.)
• Koei Tecmo (Fatal Frame)
• Kuju Entertainment (Art Academy)
• Mistwalker (The Last Story)
• Monster Games (Pilotwings Resort)
• Next Level Games (Punch-Out!! Wii, Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, etc.)
• Paon (Glory of Heracles, has a page for helping develop Brawl)
• Q-Games (X-Scape, etc.)
• Retro Studios (Metroid Prime, modern Donkey Kong Country)
• Sandlot (Chōsōjū Mecha MG, Zangeki no Reginleiv)
• skip Ltd. (Captain Rainbow, Chibi-Robo, etc.)
• Tose (The Legendary Starfy)
• Treasure (Sin and Punishment)
• Ubisoft (Rayman)
• Vanpool (Dillon's Rolling Western)
• Vitei (Steel Diver)

If that list was too long, let me give you the tl;dr version: there's a lot of companies with that tier of relevance, most of which aren't involved to the same degree as character-owning companies and by that logic, aren't deserving of pages of their own. Miles (talk) 15:05, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Good list. But these aren't Platinum-tier, these are companies with minor "representation" in the game. I'd say a playable character plus a stage, music, and trophies is major "representation." It's not like those companies created a character who is playable in the game, it's all Assists and trophies from the companies in that list. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 19:33, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Idk, I don't get the hangup. Bayonetta is a major universe in the game, and Platinum are the peeps behind it. Xenoblade, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, all major universes, and Monolith, Game Freak, and IS are the devs behind it. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 19:37, 14 February 2016 (EST)

I feel like we're kinda throwing around petty technicalities. It makes sense to keep Game Freak, IS, Monolith, and have PG. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 19:39, 14 February 2016 (EST)

How is "PG does not own the Bayonetta series" a technicality? Serpent King 19:44, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Idk, PG conceived, created, and made the games? Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 19:47, 14 February 2016 (EST)

The fact that they don't own it doesn't take that fact away. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 19:49, 14 February 2016 (EST)

It's not like Rare is the creator of a major universe in the game... Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 19:59, 14 February 2016 (EST)

With Rare here, creating but no longer owning anything represented in the Smash games (DKC, Star Fox Adventures, Perfect Dark) a much more suitable basis for company inclusion should be "who made what, and to what degree does this have to do with Smash" rather than "who owns what, and how relevant are they." Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 20:04, 14 February 2016 (EST)

Unless I'm missing something, which I don't think is the case given how I've read and mulled over this many times over, much more than I feel I should have, I just don't understand what the big hangup is. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 20:14, 14 February 2016 (EST)

(indent reset) Those companies are "Platinum tier" because they are literally credited in the same part of the credits as Platinum. Go play or watch the credits in SSBU yourself if you don't believe me. Miles (talk) 22:03, 14 February 2016 (EST)

So, this particular section of the credits seems to be for companies that own music, trophies, and/or assist trophies only, right? Do we want to make a page for them, or is that unnecessary? ScizorSteelix 00:37, 15 February 2016 (EST)

Now that Bayonetta's out, it doesn't matter anymore, Miles. It's not that I don't believe you, it's that now they have Bayonetta in the game and that changes things. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 02:15, 15 February 2016 (EST)

You think that just because they're lumped in with the other companies that they're all the same tier. That was pre-Bayonetta. Now, they haven't changed that formatting in the credits which is fine, but we've got Bayonetta in the game now. Sure PG is lumped with them still, visually, in the credits, but face reality: They have a character, a stage, music, and trophies. That's above and beyond what the rest of the companies in that list have. Rare doesn't even have universe created by them represented on that large of a scale. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 02:20, 15 February 2016 (EST)

You'd have to be a fool to deny that and keep going in the direction you're going, and you do not strike me as a fool. Well, sometimes, but not most of the time. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 02:23, 15 February 2016 (EST)

Anyways, I'm pretty much done taking this discussion seriously. Like honestly, this is really stupid, and embarrassingly so, and I shoulda stopped caring a while ago, and I've said all I've needed to say. I don't get what the hangup is, but you know if y'all want to hang onto whatever it is that's leading you to believe what you're believing then that's on y'all. Smashedpotatoes (Talk) 02:31, 15 February 2016 (EST)

All games?

The templete to make the little icons hasn't been updated yet. It says "allgames=y" but it doesn't include ultimate. Guybrush20X6 (talk) 11:08, 13 July 2018 (EDT)

Yea, we know. For future reference, it probably isn't the best idea to bring it up on a page like this. Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 11:49, 13 July 2018 (EDT)

3rd Party

Considering Game freak have made Games for other companies and consoles not only in the past, but now as Seen with Little town hero, Should we move it to Third party? AgedofallStrings (talk) 02:36, May 30, 2021 (EDT)