Greatest of all time: Difference between revisions
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Most ''Melee'' players, commentators, and supporters consider {{Sm|Armada}} to be the greatest ''Melee'' player of all time, due to his consistent level of dominance over all other competitors during his prime. Among Armada's major accomplishments include first place finishes at some of the most prestigious ''Melee'' supermajors. He won {{Trn|EVO 2015}} and {{Trn|EVO 2017}}, won three [[Tournament:GENESIS (series)|GENESIS]] titles, two {{Trn|Apex}} titles, and four [[Tournament:Smash Summit (series)|Smash Summits]] in a row. | Most ''Melee'' players, commentators, and supporters consider {{Sm|Armada}} to be the greatest ''Melee'' player of all time, due to his consistent level of dominance over all other competitors during his prime. Among Armada's major accomplishments include first place finishes at some of the most prestigious ''Melee'' supermajors. He won {{Trn|EVO 2015}} and {{Trn|EVO 2017}}, won three [[Tournament:GENESIS (series)|GENESIS]] titles, two {{Trn|Apex}} titles, and four [[Tournament:Smash Summit (series)|Smash Summits]] in a row. | ||
Armada holds positive set records against all of the other Gods. He was considered a candidate for best player in the world from 2009 until his retirement from ''Melee'' in 2018. | Armada holds positive set records against all of the other Gods. He was considered a candidate for best player in the world from 2009 until his retirement from ''Melee'' in 2018. Armada was commonly considered to be the best player in the word in 2011 and 2012, and in the first six editions of [[SSBMRank]], he was ranked 1st in 2015 and 2016, and was ranked 2nd in 2013, 2014, 2017, and 2018, never falling below 2nd place. | ||
Supporters of Armada also point to his unrivaled level of consistency as a competitor; unlike the other [[Five Gods|Gods]], who were known for occasionally losing to lower-ranked players, Armada was known for almost never dropping to a set to players below his skill level. From 2009 to 2018, he never placed below 5th at a major, and lost only three sets to players ranked below the top six: two best of three sets to {{Sm|SilentSpectre}} and {{Sm|Swedish Delight}}, and one best of five sets to {{Sm|Amsah}}. Armada was known as a major roadblock in the path of many players' goals to achieve victory over all five of the Gods, including {{Sm|Axe}} and {{Sm|Wobbles}}. Armada achieved much of his dominance using almost entirely {{SSBM|Peach}}, a character considered less viable than other top tiers such as {{SSBM|Fox}}, and also while hailing from Sweden, in a continent with fewer major tournaments and far weaker competition than North America. | Supporters of Armada also point to his unrivaled level of consistency as a competitor; unlike the other [[Five Gods|Gods]], who were known for occasionally losing to lower-ranked players, Armada was known for almost never dropping to a set to players below his skill level. From 2009 to 2018, he never placed below 5th at a major, and lost only three sets to players ranked below the top six: two best of three sets to {{Sm|SilentSpectre}} and {{Sm|Swedish Delight}}, and one best of five sets to {{Sm|Amsah}}. Armada was known as a major roadblock in the path of many players' goals to achieve victory over all five of the Gods, including {{Sm|Axe}} and {{Sm|Wobbles}}. Armada achieved much of his dominance using almost entirely {{SSBM|Peach}}, a character considered less viable than other top tiers such as {{SSBM|Fox}}, and also while hailing from Sweden, in a continent with fewer major tournaments and far weaker competition than North America. |
Revision as of 22:57, January 20, 2021
Greatest of all time, often shortened to GOAT, is an informal title used by a fanbase to label a person considered the best ever to compete or participate in a particular field. The term is most widely used in professional sports; for example, most basketball players and fans consider either Michael Jordan or LeBron James. It is also used in other competitive fields such as chess or video gaming; Faker is widely seen as the greatest League of Legends player of all time.
The Super Smash Bros. series has been played competitively since 2002 (as early as 1999 in its native Japan), and as the tournament scene has continued to develop, the communities for each game in the series have formed a consensus around one, or several, candidates considered the "greatest of all time" for their particular title.
Common criteria used to judge the greatest of all time include:
- Level of dominance over the rest of the competition during the player's peak performance.
- Number of first-place finishes at major or supermajor tournaments, as well as the prestige of the tournaments won. For example, in Melee, EVO titles is widely considered the most prestigious tournament victories.
- Longevity (length of time spent competing as a top player).
- Consistency as a top player; for example, how often the player lost to other players ranked below them.
- Influence on the development of the metagame or the competitive scene.
In Super Smash Bros. 64
Isai is widely considered to be the greatest Smash 64 player of all time. [1] This is due to his extended longevity as a competitor and dominance over the Smash 64 scene across all regions of the world (most famously showcased during his trip to Japan in 2006-2007).
In Super Smash Bros. Melee
Super Smash Bros. Melee is perhaps the only Smash title with significant debate regarding its greatest player of all time.
Most Melee players, commentators, and supporters consider Armada to be the greatest Melee player of all time, due to his consistent level of dominance over all other competitors during his prime. Among Armada's major accomplishments include first place finishes at some of the most prestigious Melee supermajors. He won EVO 2015 and EVO 2017, won three GENESIS titles, two Apex titles, and four Smash Summits in a row.
Armada holds positive set records against all of the other Gods. He was considered a candidate for best player in the world from 2009 until his retirement from Melee in 2018. Armada was commonly considered to be the best player in the word in 2011 and 2012, and in the first six editions of SSBMRank, he was ranked 1st in 2015 and 2016, and was ranked 2nd in 2013, 2014, 2017, and 2018, never falling below 2nd place.
Supporters of Armada also point to his unrivaled level of consistency as a competitor; unlike the other Gods, who were known for occasionally losing to lower-ranked players, Armada was known for almost never dropping to a set to players below his skill level. From 2009 to 2018, he never placed below 5th at a major, and lost only three sets to players ranked below the top six: two best of three sets to SilentSpectre and Swedish Delight, and one best of five sets to Amsah. Armada was known as a major roadblock in the path of many players' goals to achieve victory over all five of the Gods, including Axe and Wobbles. Armada achieved much of his dominance using almost entirely Peach, a character considered less viable than other top tiers such as Fox, and also while hailing from Sweden, in a continent with fewer major tournaments and far weaker competition than North America.
A smaller but significant share of the Melee community argues that Mango is the greatest Melee player of all time. His major accomplishments include first place finishes at EVO 2013 and EVO 2014, matching Armada's record of EVO victories, along with wins at Pound 3, GENESIS, The Big House 4, and Get On My Level 2019.
Mango has been considered a top-five player from 2007 to the present, aside from a period in 2010-2011 where he sandbagged as Scorpion Master, and was considered the best player in the world from 2008-2010 and 2013-2014. He was ranked 1st on the 2013 and 2014 SSBMRank.
Supporters of Mango cite his greater longevity compared to Armada with his peaks being just as dominant, if not greater than, Armada's (for example, winning back-to-back EVOs which no other player has done), They also argue that he was able to achieve number one in the world using three different characters (Jigglypuff, Falco, and Fox), all with different playstyles. Mango is often seen as the most influential and recognizable Melee player, as he popularized a highly aggressive and read-based style of play with his space animals, which made him a fan favorite at tournaments, and he boasts the largest Twitch following out of any Melee player; he is often regarded as the "protagonist" of Melee.[2], Mango is commonly nicknamed "the GOAT" or "ManGOAT," even by players who consider Armada the greatest of all time.
Both Armada and Mango have publicly commented on the GOAT debate. Armada has referred to himself as the GOAT on Twitter multiple times since 2018.[3][4] In October 2020, Armada and Mango both replied to a Tweet posted by Tafokints discussing the GOAT of Melee.[5] Armada replied to the Tweet first, arguing in favor of his GOAT status, citing his winning record over the rest of the top six, better placements at events the two both attended and having never placed below 5th at any tournament.[6] Mango argued that Armada was only ranked number one for two years (2015 and 2016), and even then, Mango boasted a winning record over him in 2016. He argued that his performance was superior to Armada's before 2012 and that his consistent performance did not necessarily translate into dominance,[7] suggesting that he could have been declared the undisputed GOAT if he chose to retire in 2015.[8] He also added, "At the end of the day it's dumb to discuss whos the goat when we're only halfway thru the movie... There's so much more melee to be played."[9][10]
Smaller groups have also suggested Ken and Hungrybox as possible outlier candidates. Ken, known today by his nickname "The King of Smash", is considered the undisputed best player of the MLG era before Brawl's release, and was a candidate for best player in the world from 2004 to 2007. During his prime, Ken was considered the best player by a significant margin, winning nearly every event he entered, and dominated competitive Melee to a degree far greater than Armada or Mango did during their peaks. However, it is generally agreed that Ken's short longevity at the top diminishes his claim at the GOAT. It has been suggested that Ken competed in a less advanced era of Melee, and that the overall level of competition has greatly improved since his retirement, as evidence by his failure to place top eight at majors during his return to Smash from 2013-2015.
Hungrybox has been considered a top-five player from 2009 until the present and was seen as the undisputed rank one from 2017 to 2020. Among his major titles is a victory at EVO 2016, the largest Melee tournament of all time. His Jigglypuff has been responsible for major developments in the Melee metagame; his dominance caused many to start seeing Jigglypuff as potentially the best character in the game, and many players, most notably Armada, developed secondary characters specifically in an attempt to counter him. However, Hungrybox's reign as a consistent first-place finisher has been relatively short compared to that of Mango or Armada, and his lowest level of play has also been below them; most notably from Apex 2010 to Paragon Orlando 2015, he went nearly five years without placing 1st at a major title. It is often theorized that Hungrybox could become the greatest of all time if he continues to dominate the Melee scene after several more years of competition.
"The Top 100 Melee Players of All Time"
"The Top 100 Melee Players of All Time" is a project by Smash History creators Edwin Budding and Pikachu942, which subjectively ranks the 100 greatest Melee players throughout the history of the game. The first edition, published in 2018, ranked Armada as the greatest player of all time, with Mango in second, Ken in third, and Hungrybox in fourth. A 2019 update moved Hungrybox up to third, ahead of Ken. The ranking was again updated in 2020, and Hungrybox was again moved up to second, ahead of Mango.
2018 edition
"Top 100 Melee Players of All Time" ranked the top 100 Melee players from 2002 to 2018.
Ranking | Smasher | Previous rank | Movement | Character(s) |
---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Armada | — | — | |
2 | Mango | — | — | |
3 | Ken | — | — | |
4 | Hungrybox | — | — | |
5 | Mew2King | — | — | |
6 | PPMD | — | — | |
7 | Azen | — | — | |
8 | Leffen | — | — | |
9 | ChuDat | — | — | |
10 | PC Chris | — | — | |
11 | Isai | — | — | |
12 | Plup | — | — | |
13 | KoreanDJ | — | — | |
14 | CaptainJack | — | — | |
15 | Axe | — | — | |
16 | Wobbles | — | — | |
17 | Shroomed | — | — | |
18 | Jman | — | — | |
19 | Chillin | — | — | |
20 | SFAT | — | — | |
21 | Westballz | — | — | |
22 | Hax | — | — | |
23 | KirbyKaze | — | — | |
24 | Fly Amanita | — | — | |
25 | Amsah | — | — | |
26 | HugS | — | — | |
27 | Wizzrobe | — | — | |
28 | Zhu | — | — | |
29 | Lucky | — | — | |
30 | S2J | — | — | |
31 | Sastopher | — | — | |
32 | Cort | — | — | |
33 | Darkrain | — | — | |
34 | DaShizWiz | — | — | |
35 | Vidjogamer | — | — | |
36 | Silent Wolf | — | — | |
37 | Taj | — | — | |
38 | Wes | — | — | |
39 | Kage | — | — | |
40 | Drephen | — | — | |
41 | PewPewU | — | — | |
42 | Lovage | — | — | |
43 | NEO | — | — | |
44 | SilentSpectre | — | — | |
45 | JAVI | — | — | |
46 | Masashi | — | — | |
47 | Bombsoldier | — | — | |
48 | Cactuar | — | — | |
49 | Druggedfox | — | — | |
50 | Ice | — | — | |
51 | DieSuperFly | — | — | |
52 | Colbol | — | — | |
53 | MacD | — | — | |
54 | Nintendude | — | — | |
55 | Duck | — | — | |
56 | Darc | — | — | |
57 | Ek | — | — | |
58 | Rob$ | — | — | |
59 | Kei | — | — | |
60 | La Luna | — | — | |
61 | Swedish Delight | — | — | |
62 | Forward | — | — | |
63 | The King | — | — | |
64 | aMSa | — | — | |
65 | n0ne | — | — | |
66 | Dope | — | — | |
67 | Ryan Ford | — | — | |
68 | DA Dave | — | — | |
69 | Scar | — | — | |
70 | Lambchops | — | — | |
71 | Mike G | — | — | |
72 | Mikael | — | — | |
73 | Tink | — | — | |
74 | Eddie | — | — | |
75 | Eggm | — | — | |
76 | Fiction | — | — | |
77 | Tope | — | — | |
78 | Caveman | — | — | |
79 | KrazyJones | — | — | |
80 | Husband | — | — | |
81 | Wife | — | — | |
82 | KillaOR | — | — | |
83 | Ka-Master | — | — | |
84 | Jiano | — | — | |
85 | Zgetto | — | — | |
86 | Overtriforce | — | — | |
87 | Abate | — | — | |
88 | VaNz | — | — | |
89 | Thunders | — | — | |
90 | Crush | — | — | |
91 | Bum | — | — | |
92 | Lucien | — | — | |
93 | Professor Pro | — | — | |
94 | FASTLIKETREE | — | — | |
95 | Kels | — | — | |
96 | Zain | — | — | |
97 | KishCubed | — | — | |
98 | KM | — | — | |
99 | Pink Shinobi | — | — | |
100 | Zelgadis | — | — |
Honorable Mentions: CauthonLuck , The Doug , Zulu , DJ Nintendo , Matt Deezie , Sultan of Samitude , Eduardo , Remen , Recipherus , Bladewise
2019 edition
Released on February 14th, 2019, this update was titled "All-Time Melee Top 100: Another Year". This update to the Top 50 accounts for every major that occurred since the original list up to GENESIS 6.
Ranking | Smasher | Previous rank | Movement | Character(s) |
---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Armada | 1 | 0 | |
2 | Mango | 2 | 0 | |
3 | Hungrybox | 4 | ▲ 1 | |
4 | Ken | 3 | ▼ 1 | |
5 | Mew2King | 5 | 0 | |
6 | PPMD | 6 | 0 | |
7 | Leffen | 8 | ▲ 1 | |
8 | Azen | 7 | ▼ 1 | |
9 | ChuDat | 9 | 0 | |
10 | PC Chris | 10 | 0 | |
11 | Plup | 12 | ▲ 1 | |
12 | Isai | 11 | ▼ 1 | |
13 | KoreanDJ | 13 | 0 | |
14 | CaptainJack | 14 | 0 | |
15 | Axe | 15 | 0 | |
16 | Wobbles | 16 | 0 | |
17 | Shroomed | 17 | 0 | |
18 | Jman | 18 | 0 | |
19 | SFAT | 20 | ▲ 1 | |
20 | Chillin | 19 | ▼ 1 | |
21 | Zain | 96 | ▲ 75 | |
22 | Westballz | 21 | ▼ 1 | |
23 | Hax | 22 | ▼ 1 | |
24 | Wizzrobe | 27 | ▲ 3 | |
25 | KirbyKaze | 23 | ▼ 2 | |
26 | Fly Amanita | 24 | ▼ 2 | |
27 | S2J | 30 | ▲ 3 | |
28 | Lucky | 26 | ▼ 2 | |
30 | Amsah | 25 | ▼ 5 | |
31 | Sastopher | 31 | 0 | |
32 | Zhu | 28 | ▼ 4 | |
33 | Cort | 32 | ▼ 1 | |
34 | PewPewU | 41 | ▲ 7 | |
35 | DaShizWiz | 34 | ▼ 1 | |
36 | Darkrain | 33 | ▼ 3 | |
37 | Vidjogamer | 35 | ▼ 2 | |
38 | aMSa | 64 | ▲ 26 | |
39 | Drephen | 40 | ▲ 1 | |
40 | Wes | 38 | ▼ 2 | |
41 | Taj | 37 | ▼ 4 | |
42 | Silent Wolf | 36 | ▼ 6 | |
43 | NEO | 43 | 0 | |
44 | Kage | 39 | ▼ 5 | |
45 | Lovage | 42 | ▼ 3 | |
46 | SilentSpectre | 44 | ▼ 2 | |
47 | JAVI | 45 | ▼ 2 | |
48 | Masashi | 46 | ▼ 2 | |
49 | Bombsoldier | 47 | ▼ 2 | |
50 | Duck | 55 | ▲ 5 |
2020 edition
Released on March 31st, 2020, this update was titled "All-Time Melee Top 100: Another Year". This update to the Top 50 accounts for every major that occurred since the previous list up to Smash Summit 9.
Ranking | Smasher | Previous rank | Movement | Character(s) |
---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Armada | 1 | 0 | |
2 | Hungrybox | 3 | ▲ 1 | |
3 | Mango | 2 | ▼ 1 | |
4 | Ken | 4 | 0 | |
5 | Mew2King | 5 | 0 | |
6 | PPMD | 6 | 0 | |
7 | Leffen | 7 | 0 | |
8 | Azen | 8 | 0 | |
9 | ChuDat | 9 | 0 | |
10 | PC Chris | 10 | 0 | |
11 | Isai | 12 | ▲ 1 | |
12 | Plup | 11 | ▼ 1 | |
13 | Axe | 15 | ▲ 2 | |
14 | KoreanDJ | 13 | ▼ 1 | |
15 | Zain | 21 | ▲ 6 | |
16 | Wizzrobe | 24 | ▲ 8 | |
17 | CaptainJack | 14 | ▼ 3 | |
18 | Wobbles | 16 | ▼ 2 | |
19 | SFAT | 19 | 0 | |
20 | Shroomed | 17 | ▼ 3 | |
21 | Jman | 18 | ▼ 3 | |
22 | Chillin | 20 | ▼ 2 | |
23 | Westballz | 22 | ▼ 1 | |
24 | Hax | 23 | ▼ 1 | |
25 | S2J | 27 | ▲ 2 | |
26 | Lucky | 28 | ▲ 2 | |
27 | HugS | 29 | ▲ 2 | |
28 | KirbyKaze | 25 | ▼ 3 | |
29 | Zhu | 32 | ▲ 3 | |
30 | Amsah | 30 | 0 | |
31 | Fly Amanita | 26 | ▼ 5 | |
32 | aMSa | 38 | ▲ 6 | |
33 | PewPewU | 34 | ▲ 1 | |
34 | Drephen | 39 | ▲ 5 | |
35 | Darkrain | 36 | ▲ 1 | |
36 | Vidjogamer | 37 | ▲ 1 | |
37 | Sastopher | 31 | ▼ 6 | |
38 | Cort | 33 | ▼ 5 | |
39 | DaShizWiz | 35 | ▼ 4 | |
40 | Wes | 40 | 0 | |
41 | Silent Wolf | 42 | ▲ 1 | |
42 | Taj | 41 | ▼ 1 | |
43 | Kage | 44 | ▲ 1 | |
44 | NEO | 43 | ▼ 1 | |
45 | Lovage | 45 | 0 | |
46 | SilentSpectre | 46 | 0 | |
47 | JAVI | 47 | 0 | |
48 | Masashi | 48 | 0 | |
49 | Bombsoldier | 49 | 0 | |
50 | Swedish Delight | — | — |
In Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Mew2King was widely considered to be the greatest Brawl player of all time. Mew2King was by far the most dominant player from 2008-2011, placing first or second at nearly every event he attended. Although his tournament results slumped from 2012 to 2014, he was still considered a threat to win any major tournament, and few other players were able to match his earlier levels of dominance at that time. Many of Brawl's most memorable sets featured Mew2King being upset by other players, including vs. Ally, OCEAN, and Salem.[11]
In Super Smash Bros. 4
ZeRo was widely considered to be the greatest Smash 4 player of all time. From 2014 to 2017, ZeRo placed first at nearly every tournament he entered, including a 56-tournament winning streak from 2014 to 2015. Taking a set off of ZeRo was often considered one of the highlights of a Smash 4 player's career. Although ZeRo retired from entering Smash 4 tournaments in 2018, no other player was about to match ZeRo's level of dominance and consistency before the end of the game's competitive life, leaving his claim as the Smash 4 GOAT undisputed.
In Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
While the game is only two years old, MkLeo has dominated the competitive scene for its entire lifespan, placing 1st at most of the game's significant tournaments. Widely regarded as the game's strongest player offline, his results have suffered somewhat since the switch to online play due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Nonetheless, his perception as Ultimate's top offline player remains unchanged as the competitive community awaits the return of in-person tournaments.
In Project M
ThundeRzReiGN is generally considered to be the greatest Project M player of all time, due to both his dominance and consistent level of play, placing first at nearly every tournament he entered from 2016 to 2019.
Across all Smash games
Mew2King is often considered the greatest player across all Smash titles. Mew2King is recognized as the greatest Brawl player of all time, a consistent top-five Melee player (considered best in the world in 2007), and a strong Project M and Smash 4 player, having placed top eight at many major tournaments, while also entering Smash 64 and Ultimate events. Mew2King is well known for his enjoyment of every Smash title and is one of the only top players who has spent their career competing in multiple games at once; since 2008, he has simultaneously played Melee and the newest Smash game at the time (Brawl from 2008-2014, Smash 4 from 2014-2018, Ultimate since 2018) (in addition to Project M from 2014-2015). Mew2King is also perhaps the most recognized player across the entire competitive Super Smash Bros. scene.
The tournament series Super Smash Con has run an exhibition event called "Smash Masters", in which players compete against each other across all official Smash titles, in an attempt to determine the best overall Smash player. Mew2King won Smash Masters in 2016 and 2018, Wizzrobe won in 2017, and ZeRo won in 2019.
The Top 100 Smash Bros. Players of All Time was a power ranking produced by reddit user orange_ssbu that subjectively ranked the most successful Super Smash Bros. players from the release of Super Smash Bros. in 1999 to DreamHack Atlanta 2019. The list featured Mew2King ranked in first place, with Armada in second.
References
- ^ "Fight Club: Catching a Beating at the Super Bowl of ‘Super Smash Bros.’".
- ^ "The Top 100 Melee Players of All-Time: The Final Five".
- ^ Armada's GOAT tweet (2018).
- ^ Armada's GOAT tweet (2019).
- ^ Tafokints' tweet.
- ^ Armada's tweet #1.
- ^ Mango's tweet #2.
- ^ Mango's tweet #3.
- ^ Mango's tweet #4.
- ^ "Armada or Mang0: Super Smash Bros. Melee community debates best player ever".
- ^ "Top 5 Craziest Matches in Super Smash Bros Brawl".