Talk:Alternate costume (SSBU)/Archive 1

All costumes from E3 demo

If you're using this in preperation to copy and paste the info to the actual page when one gets made, here's a video that shows all the costumes for all the characters that were at the demo to help you. [1] Unknown the Hedgehog 14:18, 15 June 2018 (EDT)

Article

Since the E3 demo provided almost half of the confirmed characters' alt costumes, and since we also have the descriptions / order / screenshots for said characters, I went ahead and transferred the page to an official article. I chose to give the characters not in the E3 demo a clean slate on the actual article and left them commented out since we don't know what costumes will be featured nor in what order. If it's just the same old from SSB4, that can be copied and pasted from the SSB4 alt costume page again. Alternatively, we can still use this sandbox for those characters not in the E3 demo for whatever screenshots Sakurai releases over time that show their costumes. Unknown the Hedgehog 16:06, 18 June 2018 (EDT)

We are supposed to move a page when it is ready, so its edit history is preserved. I will fix this. DekZek 17:09, 18 June 2018 (EDT)

My apologies. I did not realize the moving policy included articles being transferred from userspace to main. That's my bad, and I'm sorry for all that trouble. Unknown the Hedgehog 17:48, 18 June 2018 (EDT)

Zelda's Silver-haired Alt

Just like in Smash Wii U, a lot of people, many without accounts, keep editing the description for Zelda's white-haired alt. Many people think it's based on Hilda or Vaati without looking at them critically. It has escalated to a point where some previous edits have been insulting in a very juvenile way. Maybe I'm just too impatient, but I'm already tired of seeing these edits and I can only see them escalating. Is it possible we can put some sort of disclaimer in the description the same way Duck Hunt's has one for their Black Lab alt for the people who kept insisting it was based on Banjo-Kazooie? It could read:

"WARNING: This costume is NOT based on Vaati, Hilda, or any established Zelda character. It was first introduced in Brawl where it complimented Link and Ganondorf's respective black, white-haired alts. Sheik has one too. Please do NOT suggest otherwise. It might be considered vandalism and will result in a temporary ban."

I was on the cusp of adding this myself, but I am not really an authority to say what constitutes as vandalism and what doesn't. I am also not an authority on banning any people, so I was hoping that, in bringing it up here, we could add this disclaimer. Nintendo101 (talk) 15:43, 21 June 2018 (EDT)

Semi-protection

I believe this should be semi-protected. This page is the only alternate costume page to not have semi-protection and will likely be subject to the same problems the other articles also had, if not worse due to the sheer number of characters Ultimate will have. VoqéoT 11:28, 3 July 2018 (EDT)

Support I agree completely, this page needs to be semi-protected like all the others. Speed48 13:03, 6 July 2018 (EDT)

Support I agree because the characters Ultimate has will just give this page problems if it isn't semi-protected. Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan Leave a message if needed 13:11, 6 July 2018 (EDT)

Support Some may argue that this is for a game still in development and does not warrant the protection, but I think that is exactly what makes it more pressing. SSB4, Brawl, and Melee are old news for a lot of people "looking" to "improve" these articles: Ultimate is where they are going to go. These floodgates need to be closed. Nintendo101 (talk) 20:09, 6 July 2018 (EDT)

Support I'm frankly getting sick of the unconstructive edits that are occurring here. Leave it to the people who know what they're doing. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 20:15, 6 July 2018 (EDT)

Costume labels

First, all of the characters' main costumes should be labeled "Default" for consistency. Many of them are not primarily solid colors, and even when they are the article is not consistent. (examples: Ridley's main costume is primarily purple, and yet it is currently labeled "Default." Meanwhile, Sonic's main costume is labeled "Blue," but most of his costumes are also primarily blue.) As it is, labeling only some of the main costumes "Default" just makes the whole article look messy.

Second, please stop completely undoing every single edit I made to Zelda's section for no reason. Even if you don't agree with all the changes made, not all of them are without merit. I fixed the link leading to an image of adult Zelda in Ocarina of Time because the first image has been deleted off of Zeldawiki. Every time someone reverts the edit without bothering to look at each individual change, they also revert to the broken link. As for Zelda's white costume, I believe it is just as (if not more) likely that it is based off of the iconic white dress that she wears in Skyward Sword rather than the small sprite from A Link to the Past. For Zelda's blue costume, I believe it is just as likely that it takes inspiration from the informal blue and white dress she wears in A Link to the Past. Unlike the currently mentioned sprite from The Legend of Zelda, this costume is blue/white rather than solid blue and it also retains Zelda's blonde hair. Unless there is any solid evidence to the contrary, I believe these potential inspirations deserve to be mentioned.

Third, the Pokemon Trainer's costume labels make little sense (example: Why is the 8th costume labeled "Purple" when her clothes are primarily orange?) It would probably be best to just use the name of the main game protagonist they're based off of.

Fourth, the Ice Climbers labels are inconsistent. Some of them use Popo's color to name the costume, while some of them use Nana's color. It would probably be best to just use both colors in the label. (example: their 8th costume would be labeled "Purple/Orange.") 69.114.138.106 00:45, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

This all seems pretty well-reasoned.

(Although, don't forget to sign with four tildes (~).) TheNuttyOne 00:40, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

1. "Default" refers to their default appearance. I will admit that the wiki does not have a sense of consistency in regards to that.
2. As I have not undone any of these, I can't really comment on your statement. Apologies for any inconvenience.
3. The colors, to my understanding, are in regards to the Pokémon themselves, as they are the ones you play as. I do agree, though, we should rethink that.
4. That's not how the template works, though; the head icons have one color attached to them. It is why we can't have a repeat of a color within the descriptions. That said, some use Popo's and some use Nana's because the costumes change which Ice Climber is the leader, as is the case with their previous appearances.

Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 00:48, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

Thanks for the response. In order to make it look more professional and less confusing, I think we need to choose whether all character's default appearances are labeled "Default" or with a color. Right now the implication is that only some characters have a default appearance. As for the Ice Climbers, I completely forgot that the lead character switches depending on the costume. Still, are we sure which costumes belong to which Ice Climber yet? Are the first four Popo and the latter four Nana? Because if so, then Popo has three blue costumes and each one would have to be labeled as a different shade of blue (maybe Blue, Azure, and Indigo?) 69.114.138.106 05:12, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

I'm new here but seeing some costumes say Default, and some not say it confused me. I could have swore that costumes were always meant to be labeled in a way that the first costume slot is Default. For example, earlier today someone reverted all the "Defaults" back to a color and kept saying "stop it, don't change that, stop it." but I personally agree that Defaults should be Default. Shimesa (talk) 02:26, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

I was one of the primary users who reverted the changes addressed here, and I will try to explain myself as best I can.

1. The main grievance I had with how you changed the names of the colors to "Default" is that you made a substantial change without explaining why or discussing it with other users. You did not express an understanding of how our templates work: Sonic's alts are not all called "blue" because stock icons need distinct names. I think you brought up some good points here, and I appreciate you explaining your opinion. However, personally, I think consistency is overrated within an academic context. I do not think readers will be overly confused and I do not think it detracts from the article. Alternatively, maybe we should rethink how the templates for alternate costumes are arranged, but that's not something we can approach until Ultimate is released and we gain access to the stock icons. For now, the names should be left alone (unless redundant).
2. I was not the user who undid your revisions to Zelda's subsection. I would not have, because I found some of those helpful changes, especially fixing the link to Adult Zelda's artwork on ZeldaWiki. However, I will say that Zelda's alts in Ultimate have been talked about among users elsewhere. For the blue Zelda, the general feeling was that if it was based on her outfit from A Link to the Past it would have been more explicitly 1-to-1. Color wise, it looks like an adaption of Zelda's blue dress from previous Smash games, so the safest assertion to make is that the blue Zelda in Ultimate shares the same source of inspiration as the blue Zeldas in Brawl and Melee. We have no significant reason to believe otherwise. Discussions I have had with another user lead to the assertion that the connection to Zelda in the Hylia dress in Skyward Sword is not as strong in Ultimate as it was in SSB4. Plus, the jewels in Zelda's tiara even matches the ALttP sprite.
3. I think the colors right now for the Pokémon Trainer make sense and are appropriate. The Trainer is merely a vessel that gives you access to the actual playable characters, being Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard. Their colors should be prioritized. Even if that was confusing, a disclaimer is in the Trainer's subsection.
4. For the first four swaps, you control Popo. For the last four, you control Nana. The color name should reflect which Ice Climber you control (just like how Pokémon's colors should be prioritized over the Trainer's...).Nintendo101 (talk) 15:22, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

Consistency is definitely important. It's not a matter of whether or not readers understand, it's a matter of not looking sloppy. If our sole goal is to make sure readers understand, then their's technickly nuthin wrong with usin bad grammer and speling, sense most peple can figure out what we ment. TheNuttyOne 16:02, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

I also agree that consistency is important, and I also agree that all the default costumes should be labeled as "Default". VoqéoT 16:18, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

I never said consistency was not of value, just that it is overrated. For this particular case, I do not think changing the names of all the first alts to "Default" makes the article seem any more or less sloppy. I think our time and energy is better used elsewhere on SmashWiki. However, if y'all reach consensus on this topic, then it does not matter what I individually think. All is well. :) Nintendo101 (talk) 16:50, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

Using "default" to refer to the first costume is an absolute last resort when no actual colour name can be used due to either 1. collision with all other options or 2. the first being too many colours at once to assign a useful name. This is how all the alt costume pages for all games work.

All the current colour names are not final, and will be revised once the final game is out. So let's not get too involved in arguing over what they should be right now. Toomai Glittershine The Zesty 16:58, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

Sonic's Black Costume

Since it's impossible for me to edit the pages, I'll say the problem here: Sonic's black costume it's based on [2] from [3]. John(ITALIA) (talk) 20:33, 7 July 2018

This has been discussed before. The consensus reached was that it doesn't have a strong enough resemblance to Dark Sonic for it to be worth mentioning. — Nokii^ε (T·C·L) 14:51, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

Should we mention what little we know for Meta Knight and ROB?

Those screeenshots confirm a few. Should we mention them? Unowninator (talk) 18:01, 12 July 2018 (EDT)

The problem is that neither were in the demo, so we can't exactly do that without it looking inconsistent. Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 18:04, 12 July 2018 (EDT)

That's why I asked. Plus I was going to do Meta Knight, until I realized I only knew 2 of them. Unowninator (talk) 18:17, 12 July 2018 (EDT)

Sonic's 2nd Color

May I ask why it's being compared to NiGHTS for a barely noticable fur color change and purple shoes?72.133.91.93 15:54, 5 August 2018 (EDT)Blueflame105

Black skins

Can it be that the black Zelda-costume represents Princess Hilda and the black Sonic-Costume represents Dark Sonic ? Pokemon (talk) 02:20, 6 August 2018 (EDT)

Black Zelda does not resemble Hilda in the slightest, as Hilda has purple hair; black Zelda has white hair. The dress is also not similar, as there is a purple color scheme for the former, and a (as the color implies) black color scheme for the latter.

As for Dark Sonic, this has already been discussed before. Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 02:23, 6 August 2018 (EDT)

Bowser Jr.

Should the Koopalings be added on this page? We know they're his pallet swaps again, and we have the screenshot of them on Fourside.

We have the screenshot, yes, but it becomes inconsistent with the rest of the page, as the other characters use pictures from the E3 demo. Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 11:16, 10 August 2018 (EDT)

Marth's Purple Costume

Marth's eighth costume references his FE1 artwork instead of Roy. This video is the best one I could find that uses it

K. Rool's costumes

From what is revealed of the two:

• The purple costume is a likely reference to Kannon, a Kremling enemy in DKC2 who has a pink-grey color scheme.
• The blue costume is a reference to Krusha, a Kremling enemy in DKC with an identical color scheme.

While the Kannon alt is not the exact proper color, I don't think there's any doubt on the blue costume. Also, Kannon is considered the same enemy as Klump, just with different armaments, and Klump and Krusha are the two iconic Kremling enemies, so it makes sense for them to be used as a color basis for K. Rool's alts. 174.89.43.80 18:29, 21 August 2018 (EDT)

Hell Hawk

I don't know why this and other articles are bothering to claim there's some change such that the Blood Falcon alt says "Hell Hawk" instead of "Blood Hawk" now. Blood Falcon's machine has always been known as Hell Hawk in Japanese (with English text, even) and Blood Hawk in overseas localizations. With that screenshot from the website doubtless being captured in the Japanese version of the game, the costume in the US/EU versions of the game will doubtless say Blood Hawk once again. SuperFalconBros (talk) 00:56, 24 August 2018 (EDT)

Falco

Falco has a green costume. --VoyagerDefault (talk) 14:08, 24 August 2018 (EDT)

Okay. So? Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 20:03, 24 August 2018 (EDT)

Why is not it added..? --VoyagerDefault (talk) 22:11, 25 August 2018 (EDT)

It's added now, but it was labeled as white in Smash 4. Speed48 22:34, 25 August 2018 (EDT)

K. Rool's purple costume

His purple in my opinion reminds me of Skidda, Klump is brown. --VoyagerDefault (talk) 22:28, 5 September 2018 (EDT)

Skidda is from DKC3 not dkc2 [4]—Preceding unsigned comment added by IAMWEEGEE24 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 14 September 2018 (EDT)

fixed, thanks Nintendo101 (talk) 16:25, 14 September 2018 (EDT)

Chrom's Red Costume

To me it looks more like Anna or the Trickster Class in Awakening or Chrom's Gifted Leader outfit from Heroes —Preceding unsigned comment added by AdysonSweetwater (talk • contribs) 01:36, 16 September 2018

Anna's outfit has no black elements to it, and the Heroes Christmas alt for Chrom doesn't recolor his left shoulder guard or related parts of the outfit, while there's many costume elements which are clearly black in the SSBU costume. When I pointed out the possible references which are currently on the page, I tried to keep to the ones which included both red and black. Miles (talk) 02:40, 16 September 2018 (EDT)

Shadow Mewtwo

Okay, why is Mewtwo's last alt being compared to Shadow Lugia of all things? It much more resembles Shadow Mewtwo from Pokken Tournament (yes, I know the alt. costume doesn't have a yellow tail, but it much more resembles Shadow Mewtwo than Shadow Lugia! The comparison itself is just ridiculous, and it should probably be changed. On an additional note, (no one responded to a previous talk page thing I mentioned) why is Sonic's 2nd color being compared to NiGHTS for a barely noticeable fur color change nad purple shoes? NiGHTS doesn't even wear purple shoes! 72.133.91.93 12:36, 27 September 2018 (EDT)Blueflame105

I can't answer the question for Sonic, but for Mewtwo, compare the dates. The dark Mewtwo costume was in SSB4, and Mewtwo was announced on October 23rd, 2014, and released on April 18th, 2015. Pokkén's trailer for Shadow Mewtwo was released in November of 2015. Since the articles are written under the rule of "if we don't have a direct confirmation, what is the most likely basis", claiming that the dark Mewtwo costume might have been somewhat based on Shadow Mewtwo makes no sense unless Sakurai knew the development of the game behind the scenes, which I highly doubt. Disaster Flare (talk) 12:43, 27 September 2018 (EDT)

(edit conflict) For one, have you seen Shadow Lugia? That's a pretty solid color match, if you ask me. For two, NiGHTS does wear purple shoes. Aidan, the Rurouni 12:44, 27 September 2018 (EDT)

Yes, I have seen Shadow Lugia, and comparing the alt to it is pointless, due to many, many, things having that same black and gray color scheme. Personally, I don't think it closely enough matches anything to really be stated to be based off of anything at this point. Also, really? I was pretty sure NiGHTS wore brown shoes... Well, I still think Sonic's alt looks nothing like NiGHTS.

The connection to NiGHTS is primarily based on the fact that his fur was purple in this alt in Smash 4. In Ultimate, hey have decided to reinstate the unofficial rule that "Sonic must be blue", but it's otherwise the same alt. For Mewtwo, while there are plenty of monochromatic Pokemon, I do not know of any who are almost entirely black with a white underbelly other than Shadow Lugia. I'm not saying a connection is definite, to say that there isn't any connection similarity between the two is hard to believe.Nintendo101 (talk) 20:52, 27 September 2018 (EDT)

Re: Kanden

Quickly whipped this up in MS Paint for reference, in response to Nintendo101's recent edit.

The image on the left is taken from Kanden's official artwork in Metroid Prime Hunters and represents the color of his highlights in that game (as well as his trophy in Brawl). This color is directly compared to MS Paint's default lime green and yellow colors. I deemed it unnecessary to compare it with any other colors (including "normal" green).

From this, I think it's pretty clear that Kanden's highlights are predominantly yellow... or, at most, a very yellowish shade of lime. The latter could also be said about the highlights on Samus's suit, so that isn't necessarily an argument against it. --PeabodySam (talk) 17:00, 27 September 2018 (EDT)

I appreciate the work you put into this, but - personally - I still do not think this is as strong a case as you may think because:

1.) The alt looks identical to the Dark Samus alt from Smash 4, just with yellow lights. I think it is more likely that they just changed the lighting to a different color once they decided to make Dark Samus an Echo Fighter without much referential thought (i.e. they chose yellow because it looked nice, night to reference Kaden or anyone else).

2.) From my perspective, this new black alt seems slightly skewed towards orange, as oppose to the yellow in Kaden's lighting that slightly skews towards lime green. But even this cannot be accurately confirmed until Ultimate is released.

3.) It breaks up the cited consistency that Samus' alts are almost all based on suit upgrades. The Dark Samus-alt in Smash 4 may have also disrupted this trend, but she is literally a dark version of Samus, unlike Kaden, who is a physically much more distinctive character.

Those are my 2 cents, anyways... Nintendo101 (talk) 21:07, 27 September 2018 (EDT)

Fair enough, but the new black alt is far from identical to the Dark Samus alt (I assume you mean SSB4, not Brawl, correct?). The Dark Samus alt was distinctly a dark shade of blue, while the new black alt is just that: black. So, it's not just the highlights that have changed; the whole costume is different. It's also worth noting that this new black alt isn't the same as the old black alt from 64 and Melee, which predated Hunters (and therefore, Kanden); if they wanted a nondescript black Samus costume, they could've easily just reused that old color scheme instead of making a new one.

In the end, I suppose that's why it's necessary to say that it "resembles" Kanden instead of saying it's "based on" Kanden, since we don't have any official word one way or the other. --PeabodySam (talk) 22:29, 27 September 2018 (EDT)

You're right, I was referring to the Dark Samus alt from Smash 4 (not the similarly named Dark Suit-inspired alt from Brawl). And I know that this alt is completely different from the ones in 64 and Melee, but I don't think that it's based on Kanden. But that's just my opinion. (I very adamantly believe Olimar's red-and-black alt is based on the pumpkin suits.) There's no good reason why it can't be stated that it "resembles" Kanden. I shall leave it alone. But keep in mind that "resembles" is instated when there is a pretty obvious source-of-origin for an alt without an explicit citation (in which case "based" is favored). Nintendo101 (talk) 22:38, 27 September 2018 (EDT)

Mario in Purple

I think this should be to be changed in:

Resembles an outfit which consists of "L" Emblem (Luigi) and the "W" Emblem (Wario) from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door and Waluigi.

Pokemon (talk) 06:07, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

Mario has in Paper Mario 2 then still a M on his cap. Pokemon (talk) 06:09, 26 October 2018 (EDT)