User talk:Ac2k/Archive 2

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A bunch of things

I'm taking this over here because I gotta keep this argument off the other user's talk page.

1. Using Rollback for a self-reversion is perfectly acceptable. This has been established with the other admins time and time again. I'm getting sick of people telling me I can't do that, because I can, and I have been told by the administration that I can.
2. I am ignoring what you say and, *ahem*... 'strawmanning' what Serpent said, because you have been told not to butt in on other people's conversations, and you are still doing it. I don't care if you think it is for a valid reason, you are still causing harm.
3. What I said on there is not a warning. Only admins can issue warnings. What I gave was just a reminder. I was also looking at the big picture when I gave that reminder, and considered the fact that the user in question has made no mainspace edits despite being a member for some time. The number of edits they have overall is small, but would still be a concern for the administration. If I discussed this with an admin, I am sure I would be agreed with.

Finally, LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE. I am OFFICIALLY sick and tired of you harassing me over everything I do on this wiki. You are bullying me over things that are too small to matter over, and are seriously getting on my nerves. If you do not stop, I will be making an official complaint to the administration against you on the grounds of harassment. I will not engage with you further over any matter on this wiki, unless it has a constructive purpose and is not another nitpick on me. Good day. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 06:09, 2 March 2018 (EST)

Well looking at your talk page, it looks like you have been warned by other users not to use rollback for good faith edits, which was not the case with your latest reversion. Besides, allowing rollback for minor things like that just leads to a slippery slope, where eventually everyone thinks it's okay to use rollback because "everyone does it."

As for the butting in on conversations thing, actually take a look and read what I said. I'm butting in because you are falsely accusing other users of policy violations and/or needlessly threatening them with administrator action, which is unacceptable. You are the one "causing harm" here by carelessly throwing out accusations of NPA and other policy violations.

Probation is reserved for cases when a user's edits are being clearly disruptive to the wiki. That would mean something like disrupting the flow of Recent Changes with multiple edits on a daily basis. Six edits in six months is nothing to complain about, and if an admin hasn't already warned a user about probation, you should probably just leave the issue alone.

It's so disappointing to see that any hint of negative criticism is passed off by you as "bullying" and "harassment", instead of you actually reading what I'm saying and attempting to imrpove off of it. And falsely/needlessly accusing people of violating policies is nothing that is "too small to matter over." These carry serious consequences (by giving users the false impression that they're in trouble) that cannot just be thrown around whenever you like. Instead of whining at me for "harassing" you, read what I said and think about actually fixing the problems, or at least challenge why you think I'm wrong, don't call me a "bully" for issuing constructive criticism.

For future reference, here is the link to the old conversation. Awesome Cardinal 2000 07:37, 2 March 2018 (EST)

If I might chime in here, theres a couple things I'd like to say on the matter. Firstly with regards to rollback the rules are very hazy when it comes to reverting your own edits, and while it's not technically permitted by SW:RB, it is something that people have been doing for a while, and has become somewhat of an unspoken rule. In terms of NPA, perhaps the rules have changed a little since you were last here, but as it currently stands, using aggressive language towards another user is generally frowned upon, so warning users about NPA in these circumstances is acceptable. Probation as it currently stands is often used when a user primarily or solely edits their own userpage, and makes little or no effort to make actually constructive edits towards the wiki, which the user in question was doing. Finally, while admittedly Black Vulpine historically doesn't take criticism all that well, and is likely being rather melodramatic here, he has a point. You have been constantly complaining about things he has done, despite him not actually doing anything wrong, which is highly frustrating and counterproductive, so I would recommend you take the time to update yourself on our policies and refrain from doing so in future. That is all. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 07:49, 2 March 2018 (EST)

If it's not technically permitted by SW:RB, then it needs to stop. Allowing people wiggle room to use it occasionally for good faith edits is setting a really bad precedent that gives people the idea to abuse it. Rollback has always been used exclusively as a vandalism tool, and it should be kept that way. If you want to go further into that, go ahead, I'll happily debate it with you.

Rudeness has always been frowned upon here, however there is a major difference between telling someone that they're being rude and accusing them of violating them of NPA. Probation has always worked that way as well, but in this case I think it's unnecessary for a regular user to warn someone about probation if an administrator has not addressed it yet as a problem.

It's dubious to claim that Black Vulpine has "done nothing wrong," when I've outlined the issues above, and as you said, some of the things technically aren't permitted by policy. What is more counterproductive is a user making the same mistakes, and refusing to listen to what other users tell them. Awesome Cardinal 2000 08:05, 2 March 2018 (EST)

And upon looking back, it looks like BV has already been critiqued about issuing probation reminders. Awesome Cardinal 2000 11:31, 2 March 2018 (EST)

Alright I have notes for both of you.

• Black Vulpine: I have warned you before about settling down with the needless warnings for other users, and also the rollback abuse. I'm not sure why the RB abuse part got brought up, but whatever. Point is I want to see both of these behaviors cease. Also, if you have a problem with another users' conduct, bold and capslock is not the way to go, no matter how frustrated you are.
• ac2k: I have a problem with your "wiki users should be prepared to deal with anyone, no matter how they communicate themselves" comment. It is true that Vulpine has pointed out several false cases of personal attacks, but rude or snarky comments also have no place on a community project like this. It's in the wiki's best interest for its users to at least attempt to get along, and comments such as these go against this goal. A second point, when you want to critique another users' behavior, you'll get further if you do it in a less condescending way. Your style is very blunt, and that can be very off-putting, to the point where the user will ignore (or in this case, lash out) your comment entirely, leaving whatever problem you are trying to solve still present. Serpent  King 20:21, 2 March 2018 (EST)

The rollback issue was brought up because BV used it on the talk page of the other user. I will concede that I probably could've reworded things to get a better response. However, I feel that the idea of requiring proper attitude from everyone does create its own problems; it results in people becoming overly sensitive whenever they communicate with someone who doesn't necessarily follow the same attitude as them (to the point where users falsely accusing others of personal attacks, or attempt to dismiss someone's negative critique because they're being "mean"). And if someone disagrees with the majority, they could often be afraid to speak out in the name of maintaining a peaceful environment. As for the line you quoted above, while it's reasonable to expect other users and newbies to display a certain standard of behavior, that should not justify a user outright unwilling to negotiate with someone else because they're not a 100% clean sheet, nor should an established user be tolerated for lashing out simply for communicating with someone who doesn't treat them with the level of respect they think they deserve. Awesome Cardinal 2000 20:36, 2 March 2018 (EST)